How Will Gov Walker's Proposals Effect Sportsman
- Thread starter Terrific_tom
- Start date
huthut
5 year old buck +
NRB issue still a concern .... but lets not get too excited about cutting some of the DNR, educational. govt overhead. DNR has been unresponsive, used poor wildlife management statistics and generally moving the wrong direction in the eyes of the public. Changes need to be made or we will continue on the decline of our deer population and hunting tradition. Do we want our wi govt to sit back and wait until we are like MN? The NRB has been involved during the downward spiral over the last 10-15 years -- how do we hold them accountable?
Lets cut some of the educational/govt overhead if it means relieving some of the tax burden on property owners. i think some of our college educators can teach more than 11 hrs a week. Just remember all these issues are interrelated.
DNR is still abstract from the people of Wisconsin and not responsive enough -- It will take some time and new blood to the change the entrenched attitude and culture.
Lets cut some of the educational/govt overhead if it means relieving some of the tax burden on property owners. i think some of our college educators can teach more than 11 hrs a week. Just remember all these issues are interrelated.
DNR is still abstract from the people of Wisconsin and not responsive enough -- It will take some time and new blood to the change the entrenched attitude and culture.
Steve Bartylla
5 year old buck +
I voted for Scooter the first time around, sat out the recall and wrote my wife in the second (practiced what I preach by writing Walker and explaining he lost my support by turning a glut of civil service positions into political appointees and then using them to repay donors...That's BIG government, NOT small, and it's slimy). The point is that I was a Walker supporter and still really want him to succeed. I believe he has done some good things, though he went to far IMO.
That's very often the problem with those on the far right and far left, IMO. The teacher's union needed to be taken down a couple notches, but he has effectively destroyed the teachers union. I can live with that, but don't lie to me and say you aren't trying to destroy them, when Helen Keller can see that`s exactly what you are trying to do, as everything he did regarding them outside of cap what they can negotiate for did absolutely nothing to save money and everything to do with destroying a Dem contributor and nothing else.
I'm 100% all for state employees not getting sweeter bennies than private employees. I understand that they negotiated smaller raises for better bennies, but still. I believe they should align fairly closely with the private work force.
Tell me this, though. What is now the 1 job field in WI that your standard of living is the highest the first day you begin a new job and can only go down that day forward working for that employer? It's a teacher. Think about that for a second. The MAX they can get is an inflation rate raise (outside of wealthy districts, you honestly believe any other district will vote to give teachers a raise above inflation rate? Honestly?!). That doesn't mean they'll get it, as all 3 teachers I know (working for 3 different districts spread across the state) have gotten less than inflation rate since it's implementation. I doubt even one of us would be willing to go to school to enter a profession knowing that our standard of living would go down our entire career in that field from the day we got our first job. Costs needed to be taken down, but that's ridiculous, as the negative impact to education will be big in the years to come.
So, now he is pushing that you don't need a teaching degree to teach any longer. Why? Because we are going to be facing a massive teaching shortage because their profession has been castrated. I don't want some guy or girl that can't find a job in their field to be able to use my kids' school as a pit stop until they can find a job in their field, as is exactly what will happen.
I 100% agree that many schools had some fat to trim, but that was already trimmed in the last go around and then some. So, let's cut deeper? The small town WI schools I am familiar with are already holding it together with spit and glue.
Mark my words, the net result of all of this will be that the wealthier districts won't suffer. They'll do public referendums and get that money, as their wealthier residents won't tolerate their children getting inferior educations, but small town WI & poor districts are being handed a promise of worse and worse schools, all in an attempt split between commercializing our public education system and cut property taxes another $10 per person.
We are willing to look deeper to find the motives of the Doyles, Reids and Obamas of the political world. If we want to stop being our own worst enemies, we need to do the same for those that we actually do vote for. When they are not acting in our or our children's best interests, we need to call them on it and hold them accountable. If we don't, we have no one to blame but ourselves when we find we're swirling down the toilet and can't climb out.
NoFo already covered what is happening to the DNR and how it will bite us. So, I left that alone and just covered this, to help show a pattern of swinging too far today and not giving tomorrow a second thought. If you think all these cuts to wildlife positions and transformation of the DNR into the Governor's yes man is fine, just imagine what will happen when a "far lefty bike chick" is elected our next Gov. Sorry to offend, but if anyone doesn't see how all this is a recipe for disaster, they just aren't looking clearly. I'll shut up now.
That's very often the problem with those on the far right and far left, IMO. The teacher's union needed to be taken down a couple notches, but he has effectively destroyed the teachers union. I can live with that, but don't lie to me and say you aren't trying to destroy them, when Helen Keller can see that`s exactly what you are trying to do, as everything he did regarding them outside of cap what they can negotiate for did absolutely nothing to save money and everything to do with destroying a Dem contributor and nothing else.
I'm 100% all for state employees not getting sweeter bennies than private employees. I understand that they negotiated smaller raises for better bennies, but still. I believe they should align fairly closely with the private work force.
Tell me this, though. What is now the 1 job field in WI that your standard of living is the highest the first day you begin a new job and can only go down that day forward working for that employer? It's a teacher. Think about that for a second. The MAX they can get is an inflation rate raise (outside of wealthy districts, you honestly believe any other district will vote to give teachers a raise above inflation rate? Honestly?!). That doesn't mean they'll get it, as all 3 teachers I know (working for 3 different districts spread across the state) have gotten less than inflation rate since it's implementation. I doubt even one of us would be willing to go to school to enter a profession knowing that our standard of living would go down our entire career in that field from the day we got our first job. Costs needed to be taken down, but that's ridiculous, as the negative impact to education will be big in the years to come.
So, now he is pushing that you don't need a teaching degree to teach any longer. Why? Because we are going to be facing a massive teaching shortage because their profession has been castrated. I don't want some guy or girl that can't find a job in their field to be able to use my kids' school as a pit stop until they can find a job in their field, as is exactly what will happen.
I 100% agree that many schools had some fat to trim, but that was already trimmed in the last go around and then some. So, let's cut deeper? The small town WI schools I am familiar with are already holding it together with spit and glue.
Mark my words, the net result of all of this will be that the wealthier districts won't suffer. They'll do public referendums and get that money, as their wealthier residents won't tolerate their children getting inferior educations, but small town WI & poor districts are being handed a promise of worse and worse schools, all in an attempt split between commercializing our public education system and cut property taxes another $10 per person.
We are willing to look deeper to find the motives of the Doyles, Reids and Obamas of the political world. If we want to stop being our own worst enemies, we need to do the same for those that we actually do vote for. When they are not acting in our or our children's best interests, we need to call them on it and hold them accountable. If we don't, we have no one to blame but ourselves when we find we're swirling down the toilet and can't climb out.
NoFo already covered what is happening to the DNR and how it will bite us. So, I left that alone and just covered this, to help show a pattern of swinging too far today and not giving tomorrow a second thought. If you think all these cuts to wildlife positions and transformation of the DNR into the Governor's yes man is fine, just imagine what will happen when a "far lefty bike chick" is elected our next Gov. Sorry to offend, but if anyone doesn't see how all this is a recipe for disaster, they just aren't looking clearly. I'll shut up now.
Terrific_tom
5 year old buck +
^^^^^^^^^
Very well said Steve
Very well said Steve
D
dipper
Guest
Obama won on preeching hate, the republicans are now trying to win by villianizing public workers. Same play different characters. It's cool to hate the teachers, cops, dnr or any other public workers. We forget about how much the government does for us, public health, sanitation, infrastructure, public safety. If our culture wants to go back 150 years where people are dying of disease left and right, robbing trains, and traveling in horse and buggy. Reflect on how evil the government really is, and what we are really going to gain by attacking it so dramatically? fat cutting is fine, but not ww3.
The thing is it's all a power grab for him, nothing more or less. Spreading hate can be very effective means of public relations, and it appears to be working.
But I've given up on both sides of the politicial spectrum for many many reasons.
The thing is it's all a power grab for him, nothing more or less. Spreading hate can be very effective means of public relations, and it appears to be working.
But I've given up on both sides of the politicial spectrum for many many reasons.
wiscwhip
5 year old buck +
Looks like Scooter decided to plead the 5th on most every question posed by the Chatham House Royal Institute for International Affairs group. :rolleyes:Oh well, better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. You are on taxpayer funded trip to advance your foreign affairs exposure for your Presidential run...err...uhh...err...o_OI mean promote international trade between your State and a foreign nation and you are speaking to one of the preeminent foreign policy think tanks in the world and you basically evade or refuse outright to answer every question they pose to you on foreign policy? Well played, I guess, if you take into consideration that Jindal and Christie were eaten alive by the British media. And then he responds with "I'm going to punt on that one as well." No one in his camp informed him that they do not "punt" in British football? :confused:And then this lovely tidbit, “I just don’t think you talk about foreign policy while you’re on foreign soil,” the governor said. o_OReally? Because when you are the President, that is all you generally talk about when you are on foreign soil. Scooter better get used to it if he expects to go to Israel later this year, because that is all they will want to talk about. Hopefully the Koch puppetmasters will inform him of his positions on all the relevant foreign policy issues at the time he visits. :oops:Embarrassing, the world has to think every person in WI is an absolute moron, not just through association because Scooter is from WI, but that people here thought it would be a good idea to put him in charge 3 different times.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
In regards to Steve B.'s excellent points made in post #79, I have this observation. Why, when you hear big executives in any field of endeavor speak about their huge compensation packages, they defend the outlandish pay by saying " if you want to attract the best and brightest, you have to compensate them well. "
Why does this concept not apply to other professions / positions ??? Everyone barks like a junk-yard dog that they want OTHER PEOPLE'S pay cut to save themselves a few tax dollars or business " costs ". As long as it's SOMEONE ELSE'S pay. I know plenty of people that supported THAT line of thought - until it was THEIR pay or job that got cut. Then they were crying tears the size of horse turds. All kinds of b#tching ensued.
I have 2 simple questions. #1. Why would any thinking person want to take away the incentive(s) to professions that require a high degree of skill by stagnating or cutting pay & benefits ?? And then expect better results and higher morale ?? ( Teachers, skilled trades, technical jobs / professions ). What's the purpose of college & continuing education if you're looking at flat / reduced pay & benefits ??
#2. What kind of thinking (?) goes into the practice of saying " why are they making more money / have better benefits than me? They should have to make less like I do. "o_O
:confused: Since when is tearing each other down / going backwards a GOOD thing?? Wouldn't common sense encourage one to want to get better pay & benefits?? Instead of tearing each other down, wouldn't it make more sense to LIFT EACH OTHER UP ??
If, as so many politicians love to proclaim, " our future stems from better education ", why would it make sense to cut teacher pay / eliminate programs / close & condense schools ?? ( I am not a teacher BTW )
As Steve B. said ACCURATELY in post #79, the rich neighborhoods won't tolerate sub-standard school systems. They'll put the leverage ($$$) on their local officials to get the funding they want for THEIR schools. Other " lesser " districts will suffer as a result. It's already happening nationwide.
For the folks that are sure to come out & say - " look at the failure of so many schools and students. Teachers have to be held accountable. " - I say this: how many PARENTS aren't holding themselves and their kids responsible ?? Look how many parents don't even know where their kids are let alone make them do homework or read. How many hours are kids permitted to play computer / x-box games ?? How many " parents " are addicted to some drug or alcohol ?? Crack / meth heads ?? Or don't DISCIPLINE their kids so they respect teachers and adults alike ?? I see too much of that crap where parents are lousy at raising their kids. MANY, MANY times it's not the teachers' fault that students fail. " Parents " need to look in the mirror. Guns, knives, bombs, violence have no place in schools. Would any of us want to try teaching in THOSE kinds of environments ?? If your kid doesn't respect the teacher - or know how to behave in school - it's YOUR fault !!!
And for those who think this is " socialist talk " - WRONG. I believe in persistant, diligent, skilled, smart work. No welfare state, suck the public dry stuff. But for that work - a compensation package befitting and commensurate with a 2015 decent standard of living - not one from 1980.
Why does this concept not apply to other professions / positions ??? Everyone barks like a junk-yard dog that they want OTHER PEOPLE'S pay cut to save themselves a few tax dollars or business " costs ". As long as it's SOMEONE ELSE'S pay. I know plenty of people that supported THAT line of thought - until it was THEIR pay or job that got cut. Then they were crying tears the size of horse turds. All kinds of b#tching ensued.
I have 2 simple questions. #1. Why would any thinking person want to take away the incentive(s) to professions that require a high degree of skill by stagnating or cutting pay & benefits ?? And then expect better results and higher morale ?? ( Teachers, skilled trades, technical jobs / professions ). What's the purpose of college & continuing education if you're looking at flat / reduced pay & benefits ??
#2. What kind of thinking (?) goes into the practice of saying " why are they making more money / have better benefits than me? They should have to make less like I do. "o_O
:confused: Since when is tearing each other down / going backwards a GOOD thing?? Wouldn't common sense encourage one to want to get better pay & benefits?? Instead of tearing each other down, wouldn't it make more sense to LIFT EACH OTHER UP ??
If, as so many politicians love to proclaim, " our future stems from better education ", why would it make sense to cut teacher pay / eliminate programs / close & condense schools ?? ( I am not a teacher BTW )
As Steve B. said ACCURATELY in post #79, the rich neighborhoods won't tolerate sub-standard school systems. They'll put the leverage ($$$) on their local officials to get the funding they want for THEIR schools. Other " lesser " districts will suffer as a result. It's already happening nationwide.
For the folks that are sure to come out & say - " look at the failure of so many schools and students. Teachers have to be held accountable. " - I say this: how many PARENTS aren't holding themselves and their kids responsible ?? Look how many parents don't even know where their kids are let alone make them do homework or read. How many hours are kids permitted to play computer / x-box games ?? How many " parents " are addicted to some drug or alcohol ?? Crack / meth heads ?? Or don't DISCIPLINE their kids so they respect teachers and adults alike ?? I see too much of that crap where parents are lousy at raising their kids. MANY, MANY times it's not the teachers' fault that students fail. " Parents " need to look in the mirror. Guns, knives, bombs, violence have no place in schools. Would any of us want to try teaching in THOSE kinds of environments ?? If your kid doesn't respect the teacher - or know how to behave in school - it's YOUR fault !!!
And for those who think this is " socialist talk " - WRONG. I believe in persistant, diligent, skilled, smart work. No welfare state, suck the public dry stuff. But for that work - a compensation package befitting and commensurate with a 2015 decent standard of living - not one from 1980.
shawnv
5 year old buck +
People are taking notice, here are some suggestions to makes yours heard.
http://www.outdoornews.com/February...servationists-to-respond-to-Madison-nonsense/
http://www.outdoornews.com/February...servationists-to-respond-to-Madison-nonsense/
shawnv
5 year old buck +
If you are not sure who to voice your concern to, here is a link to the district map.
http://maps.legis.wisconsin.gov/#
http://maps.legis.wisconsin.gov/#
wiscwhip
5 year old buck +
Yup, that is how I found the ones I sent my emails to. I sent emails to not only the reps from the county I reside in, I also sent them to reps from the county I normally hunt in and I encourage anyone in a similar situation to do the same.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Here's a hint from a long-time assistant to a state legislator here. He told my Trout Unlimited chapter that if you want to get the attention of your elected, do something that disrupts the schedules of their office (s). The quickest best way to do that is to make phone calls to them. It requires people to man the phones and takes them away from their normal duties. He also said that most issues get NO VOTER INPUT OR COMMUNICATION. He told us that if they got 5 - 10 calls, or letters, or post cards - on any subject - they knew that statistically there were a lot more folks concerned about the same subject that didn't communicate to their office. But his best attention - getter is phone calls because it requires immediate attention by office staff. FWIW.
wiscwhip
5 year old buck +
Makes sense, kind of like fighting a war. Wounding an enemy takes far more resources than killing an enemy.
Here is the reply I got back from my WI State Senator.
Dear Jack Wagon
I want to thank you for contacting me regarding the 2015-2017 Biennial Budget. I appreciate hearing your concerns in regards to the Natural Resources Board (NRB).
Your feedback comes at an opportune time as I am reviewing the Governor’s 2015-2017 Budget proposal (formally introduced as Senate Bill 21 and Assembly Bill 21) on the Committee on Joint Finance (JFC). There will be plenty of time for public input and testimony as the JFC will be holding public hearings on the budget all across the state. I look forward to providing leadership in the long and extensive process.
As the budget moves from the JFC to both houses of the Legislature, I believe that all programs and provisions must be carefully scrutinized to ensure that there is a maximum return on investment for taxpayers all across the district.
I have come out in support of the Governor’s decision to convert the Natural Resources Board to an advisory council for a few reasons. It concerns me that the NRB is an unelected board with vast rulemaking powers that has often been overzealous in its responsibility to make decisions regarding Wisconsin’s natural resources. The NRB is also a frequent rubber stamp of DNR staff decisions without regard to public opinion or economic impact. As a result, I believe that the DNR Secretary’s office will be a more reasonable approach to making such decisions, which, in turn, will be directly accountable to the people by means of elected representative in state government. Should the change be officially implemented, the NRB will still have seat at the table in maintaining our natural resources.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts with me. I will keep your views in mind as the budget process unfolds. If there is anything I can do, please feel free to contact me.
Sincerely,
TOM TIFFANY
State Senator
12th Senate District
I want to thank you for contacting me regarding the 2015-2017 Biennial Budget. I appreciate hearing your concerns in regards to the Natural Resources Board (NRB).
Your feedback comes at an opportune time as I am reviewing the Governor’s 2015-2017 Budget proposal (formally introduced as Senate Bill 21 and Assembly Bill 21) on the Committee on Joint Finance (JFC). There will be plenty of time for public input and testimony as the JFC will be holding public hearings on the budget all across the state. I look forward to providing leadership in the long and extensive process.
As the budget moves from the JFC to both houses of the Legislature, I believe that all programs and provisions must be carefully scrutinized to ensure that there is a maximum return on investment for taxpayers all across the district.
I have come out in support of the Governor’s decision to convert the Natural Resources Board to an advisory council for a few reasons. It concerns me that the NRB is an unelected board with vast rulemaking powers that has often been overzealous in its responsibility to make decisions regarding Wisconsin’s natural resources. The NRB is also a frequent rubber stamp of DNR staff decisions without regard to public opinion or economic impact. As a result, I believe that the DNR Secretary’s office will be a more reasonable approach to making such decisions, which, in turn, will be directly accountable to the people by means of elected representative in state government. Should the change be officially implemented, the NRB will still have seat at the table in maintaining our natural resources.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts with me. I will keep your views in mind as the budget process unfolds. If there is anything I can do, please feel free to contact me.
Sincerely,
TOM TIFFANY
State Senator
12th Senate District
wiscwhip
5 year old buck +
Basically the same response that my uncle got from his Republican legislators. I feel they are going to vote the party line on this and there is nothing we can do about it with a fully Republican controlled legislature. My district is all Dems and they said they will fight it .
Clueless for sure. I read at the governor's opening day fishing event he had his spinning real upside down reeling backwards. I also seen a interview with Cathy Stepp, they asked her before she was appointed by Walker what she thought of hunting was and if she ever did it. Her response was, she went turkey hunting one time. Just what we need more politicians in the DNR.
Steve Bartylla
5 year old buck +
I enjoyed that portion of the post.
I can tell you that the DNR officials I have spoken to over the years regarding the NRB sure don't view them as a "rubber stamp." In fact, I got the distinct impression that the NRB often really frustrates the DNR, as it should be, IMO. If anything, it seems like the NRB is more attune to "public opinion and economic impact" than the DNR. IMO, Tom Tiffany either has no clue what he is talking about or is banking on you not having a clue. Either way, it is my opinion that he is merely blowing smoke and hoping it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling inside.
Unfortunately, I tend to agree that this looks like it will be a party line vote. All the Dems I contacted returned replies about how vigorously they will be fighting this "power grab," while all the Reps responded with letters similar to EOBs. I then did my best to counter their points and explain that if they do indeed support this that they will no longer stand any chance of me supporting them.
I hate to continue beating a dead horse on this, but it is 100% up to we voters to make sure this doesn't happen. Without us, it's a given in my mind that this latest power grab is achieved. Frankly, I shouldn't say this, but feel it's a long shot that we can stop it with anything short of buying a bunch of billboards proclaiming this as a sell out/power grab, and organizing those types of efforts is not a strong suit of mine (though I'm sure QDMA/whatever the name of their new PAC group is, is already all over this like stink on rotten fish :oops: ).
That said, IF this goes through and IF we don't make them pay for it with our votes, we have no one to blame but ourselves for us being played as fools again and again and again and, well, you get the point.
shawnv
5 year old buck +
This needs to be public debate now and make those supporting this answer how the appointed secretary will do better, what the NRB did that was overzealous and how is this power grab is any different. I want them to answer how they feel about these positions being in control of the other party because it's going to happen so we're going to see swings in policy that will probably be very short sighted.
