How much cover?

[shawnv]

Based on some other threads I had or commented on, I decided if I own more property I have to be able to grow what I farm on it to justify the expense to my family. With that said, it made the decision to sell my timbered 30 acres fairly easy (plus the new buyer will let me take my kids there to hunt a few times each fall). Many of you also suggested if given the option you would add onto the property

My current farm has food, water and cover but it's not enough on the cover side. After the sale of the 30 closes I will be in a position to see if a neighbor to sell to me (One could not sell before and took it off the market). Right now my block is close to 300 acres and maybe 80-90 of it is wooded and is more of a strip than a block. I'm already adding close to 3 acres of pines on my 56 now over the next couple of years but if I purchase more ground I'm wondering how do you all go about deciding how much cover is enough to hold a mature deer?

 

[SD51555]

That's a big question. My short version: Keep adding until you notice the deer are not leaving your place as often as they are now. You will likely never prevent seasonal movement off your property, but if you can keep them for periods at a time when food/water/cover are all in season at your place, that's a win. Look for dual purpose plants. You've probably heard me crowing a lot on here about RO Dogwood. It's 3 season cover, and 4 season food. Soft mast thickets with large pockets of spruce for the winter cover (plum, crabapple, basswood hinged aggressively).

 

[j-bird]

It's about plugging the lowest hole in your habitat bucket. Cover and food is what makes the deer's world go round.

 

[shawnv]

If you get somebody to answer that definitively...they're full of B.S. There is no set answer. My philosophy on cover and food has always been cover over food any day. My place is 87 acres, of that probably 70+ is cover(rest is home, lawn, garden, foodplots, trails, and orchards)...and I'm working on making it the thickest, nastiest, highest stem count cover I can. I do have row crops across the road, so that takes care of food needs for a decent portion of the year. I needed to add food here to keep deer around longer...but I there's no way I can "feed" a deer herd year round.

That was somewhat of a trick question I must admit because there is no set answer and it was meant to be very open ended. I will say I was not for an answer on what to do specifically as I was looking to pick your brain on how you came up and decided on what you did or will do to create enough cover.

 

[j-bird]

Shawn - if you have to grow row crops on a property to keep it financially viable - I totally understand. I am in the same boat. What I have done is improve the cover I have with a selective timber harvest to thicken the understory and then expanded my cover by enrolling in CRP programs which make annual acrage payments which essentially offset my loss of productive ground. These programs also cost share installation and maint costs. I went with 2 different programs. One was field buffer program and the other is a stream buffer program both have a min of 30' wide with a max of 120' wide. The CRP payments essentially offset the cost rent I would receive for these acres. This also left the better mor productive ground for farming which thus then increased my payment per acre because my renter was no longer farming marginal areas along the woods where the crops struggle against the trees for sunlight and soil moisture. I implemented these in the best fit areas and then in areas too small to be worth while to farm I converted into foodplots. I have planted these areas in NWSG and as such has improved screening and bedding cover. I also implement hinging and further TSI practices to improve stem density in my hardwoods and try to use every inch for deer habitat - financial income via farming or the house and barn lot - no room for idle ground. This "idle ground" policy should be used regardless of the limits of a property. Every property has limitations, we simply have to maximize what we have. I also agree that I prefer to use my plots to draw and hold the deer during the hunting season - if the deer want to get fat on the neighbors soybeans in June - I am OK with that.

 

[dipper]

My opinion is the more cover the better. If you have rich soil there is $ to be made. If you have to depend on rental income to keep your land, that is a slippery slope financially. I wouldn't personally own land if I was in that situation.
Crp rent is a bonus for me, actually two bonuses. The best part is the cover warm season grasses offer. I have found a way to grow tons of forage on small plots. Im basically producing just as much food on smaller plots, than if I was farming. Plus I have increased crp cover. It's pretty sweet.

 

[shawnv]

I'm a little different in that I am not your traditional row-crop farmer, I farm naturally grown and organic garlic so the ground I buy would be to expand my operation. Having two acres planted in garlic at a time is considered a large farm. Because I do not plant my crop in the section I hunt, I'm limited to a max of 1.3 acres of garlic at a time using a 3yr rotation based on my farm's topography. With that said, what I buy doesn't need to have much tillable (just need 2-6 of the right acres). Still I'm probably only looking at no more than a 30 acres purchase right now so yea it will be having to live with balancing cover with what is needed for my operation.

 

[dipper]

What is your weed control for the garlic? We eat a lot of it. The ole lady gets ours from a farm in Wittenberg. What other organic stuff u growing? That's cool

 

[shawnv]

I have eight varieties of garlic so right now that is my only focus. I may add fingerling potatoes down the road but my focus is on expanding my garlic right now and prepping for future expansion. Weed control without spraying is something that is an ongoing learning process and each year gets better as you deplete the weed send bank in the soil.

1) You have to till and till again. Sure, some serious food plotters will argue that tilling breaks down some of the micro organisms but I respond by saying, "What do you think spraying gly does over time? " Any loss done by mutil-tilling can be repaired and you can organically promote new growth of micro-orgamisms. Plus garlic loves soil full of organic matter.

2) Having an abundance of earth worms is also essential and not something you will have on heavily spayed ground. This will improve the soil allowing the plants you want growing to complete with weeds

3) Keep a mowed buffer between the planted ground and other native gasses and weeds.

4) After tilling 2-3x, I will start a new field and plant buckwheat at a 2x rate and let it bloom and reseed

5) Mid to late July, Till/disc buckwheat in and plant another round of Buckwheat at a 2x rate if the seed from round #1 was not enough

6) Late August, till #5 in before it blooms and plant oats, rye or winter wheat. Wheat has more weed reduction properties.

7 ) If I am not going to be planting that same year then I will leave #6 until spring and plant crimson clover right away and let that grow until the next fall when it is time to plant.

8) With each rotation, the amount of weeds decrease. They will never be completely gone but you can greatly reduce them

9) Use your hands and hoe. Some will flame weeds but I'm not sure I want to do that.

I have sprayed food plots in the past and also used the above method I use on my garlic plots and to be honest, the result from the latter have been great if not better if you want a fall food plot. My yield beans has been less so far but that was on a first year field. I think if I did a fall plot and then a rotation the results will be better. Regardless, cost wise it's not cheaper than spraying because of time and fuel costs to till.

 

[dipper]

You ever try planting into established white clover, mulch around plants=easy weed control. That's how I roll my garden. Works extremely well for large plants like tomatoes, I would thing garlic as well.

 

[shawnv]

You ever try planting into established white clover, mulch around plants=easy weed control. That's how I roll my garden. Works extremely well for large plants like tomatoes, I would thing garlic as well.

clover is too dense and you don't want it competing with garlic come spring however...yes you can mulch with straw per what Mo said (don't use hay) after you plant but this year I did similar to your comment and planted right into my oats. When the oats die they will serve the role as the mulch. I should also say garlic needs plenty of water but it does not like the solid to stay wet so most people have to plant it in raised beds and when that is done, it's usually straw mulch on top. I just found out last year that you do not need to use organic straw per certification so it's easier to get and with a new planter being designed on the way I will be going back to the raised beds and straw. When it comes to garlic, no two properties are the same nor the best techniques. It's trial by fire for most growers the first several years.

 

[TMIL]

Thanks for the primer on growing garlic. I found it interesting.

As far as cover ... half of my property was farmed then mowed under CRP until about 11 years ago. I have let it regenerate naturally over the past decade and its filling in nicely. I guess my idea is along the lines of 'he with the most cover wins' and also it was the easiest method to achieve the cover, i.e., do nothing. Haha!

 

[Tree Spud]

I agree with the above. You can never have too much cover and the thicker/nastier the better.

I have read in a number of areas that deer prefer canopies of 12-14' high. I would look at shrubs that are shade tolerant, spread by seed or suckering. Lots of shrubs equal lots of browse. Also adding pockets of conifers such as spruces for good thermal cover would be important. These pockets can be 2-4 acres and should try and spread out

I don't get hung up on holding deer concept. Deer are natural wandering browsers. These are so many factors around your property you cannot control. Also, unless you are willing to be disciplined with staying out of sanctuaries, you'll end up bumping deer. I focus on lots of areas for bedding and transition cover to food sources. Remember, once the rut starts, you have little or no control over the bucks on your property. Give lots of bucks a reason to scent check bedding areas on your property.

When you step back and say .. it's so thick, I can't even see 30 feet ... you are almost there.

 

[Tree Spud]

we started with 100 acre hardwood ridge/180 ag/200 cedar swamp. I converted 37 acres of ag to norway patches and drove the dpsm thru the roof. The red is my latest and last. the blue were planted going back to 75. so now we are 140 ag/140 woods,thermals.

November ... it looks like you have one planting that is 3-4 acres and some 10-20 acres.

What is your experience with the size of spruce planting and what would you consider to be the smallest acreage wise?

Also, you mentioned in the past, 12' x 12' spacing of spruces. Do you plant any things between the rows?
.

 

[shawnv]

No, the lower small blue 1 is 1 acre. most are 4-6 acres. The latest red 1 is 4.5 acres. 1 acre would be the smallest, 2-5 acre is perfect. nothing planted between rows, natural grasses only, at 12 years ns have a 10 foot wingspan. You want the grasses vs. needles only that you have to crawl or walk backwards to get thru. deer hate that. I have a shadowhunter on the upper right box and have watched numerous sits having 60 different deer head out to feed and I can;t see the other side. Do the math on deer per acre.

With that kind of spacing, in what year of growth did you notice the deer really taking to it?

 

[shawnv]

My plan has me planting NS but I'm not sure if I will do it in exact rows. I was thinking 10x10 spacing but maybe your experience will make me consider 12x12. Did you change your spacing to make it more dense on a smaller area. If I'm not able to purchase my neighbor's property I'm looking at 2 acres tops in one block on the top of my ridge.

 

[Tree Spud]

My plan has me planting NS but I'm not sure if I will do it in exact rows. I was thinking 10x10 spacing but maybe you experience will make me consider 12x12. You you change your spacing to make it more dense on a smaller area. If I'm not able to purchase my neighbor's property I'm looking at 2 acres tops in one block on the top of my ridge.

The closer you plant them, the higher the branches will die and drop off.

You want a good lower canopy closer to the ground say 4-6' to provide the upper and lower thermal.