Timber Harvest

[westonwhitetail]

I have 76 acres of which 55 or so acres is wooded. I am in the planning stages of having a timber harvest completed. The woods is currently mature and my goal is to thicken it up (some areas more than others) to encourage more bedding, browse and utilization of the property by deer. Currently I get a lot more use on the property in the summer and early fall, then the woods looses what little cover it has when the foliage drops and the deer seem to move to other areas that are thicker nearby. They still travel through but I want to develop more cover for better deer bedding and use in November/December.

I walked the property with the DNR forester and he had some recommendations. Those combined with my research has led me to the following plan.
1) aggressive cutting on the ridge tops and south facing slopes. Try to encourage oak regeneration.
2) select cut the north and east facing slopes. Maintain some timber value in these areas for future timber harvests
3) Clear cut some select areas for bedding and early successional growth

A map of the property and preliminary plan is below. Any suggestions on this plan and general recommendations when having a property logged?

 

[omicron1792]

I’ve had extensive cutting done over last 4 years. Things I’ve learned.

1. Loggers are gonna get the easy stuff and leave the hard stuff. Any talk of conservative approaches on slopes is they don’t want to work on the slopes.

2. They care nothing about your roads. You MUST have in signed contract they will leave roads as good or better than before.

3. They leave a mess. You MUST have in your contract whatever you want it to look like after. Rake debris. Remove debris. Burn debris

4. Generally the trees you care about most for wildlife (oaks) are the trees that make them most at the mills. If there are trees you want to keep, you better mark them and take pictures.

5. Did I say they will cut the easy stuff and leave the hard stuff?

Just what I learned.

 

[356]

My first impression is "I like your plan." If you have not listed to some of the recent podcasts on timber harvests, it might be beneficial to catch up on these to ensure that you are getting the best value for your timber along with ensuring the work is done for management, not just profit.

Deer University
Whitetail Landscapes: Timber Harvests

 

[Hoytvectrix]

This seems like a pretty solid plan for your goals. I will defer to others that have more experience with logging.

As was mentioned already by @356, there are some great resources out there. We have been considering doing some logging in a portion of a new farm so I'm just getting into this myself. But from what I have heard in a couple of these podcasts or extension publications, is that it is worth the money to bring in a private lands Forester and have a forest management plan in place. This will provide a baseline quote for your timber value currently that you can use for depreciation of the asset over time to offset tax liabilities. Also having this done opens the door for setting your property up as a tree farm, which apparently has other tax incentives beyond just a recreational or even row crop farm.

I'm going to be going through a bunch of this in the coming years so regardless of which route you go, I'd love to hear what you learn in the process.

 

[omicron1792]

This seems like a pretty solid plan for your goals. I will defer to others that have more experience with logging.

As was mentioned already by @356, there are some great resources out there. We have been considering doing some logging in a portion of a new farm so I'm just getting into this myself. But from what I have heard in a couple of these podcasts or extension publications, is that it is worth the money to bring in a private lands Forester and have a forest management plan in place. This will provide a baseline quote for your timber value currently that you can use for depreciation of the asset over time to offset tax liabilities. Also having this done opens the door for setting your property up as a tree farm, which apparently has other tax incentives beyond just a recreational or even row crop farm.

I'm going to be going through a bunch of this in the coming years so regardless of which route you go, I'd love to hear what you learn in the process.

I did that. Had independent appraisal for timber depreciation. Honestly that is something you should get a qualified CPA to set up and do for you.

I also had 2 overall land management plans drawn up for my property. One by a free state service foreester (who is great and I talk to frequently) and a private company out of Georgia (who is great and I talk to frequently).

Happy to share my plans if you DM me

 

[cavey]

I have 76 acres of which 55 or so acres is wooded. I am in the planning stages of having a timber harvest completed. The woods is currently mature and my goal is to thicken it up (some areas more than others) to encourage more bedding, browse and utilization of the property by deer. Currently I get a lot more use on the property in the summer and early fall, then the woods looses what little cover it has when the foliage drops and the deer seem to move to other areas that are thicker nearby. They still travel through but I want to develop more cover for better deer bedding and use in November/December.

I walked the property with the DNR forester and he had some recommendations. Those combined with my research has led me to the following plan.
1) aggressive cutting on the ridge tops and south facing slopes. Try to encourage oak regeneration.
2) select cut the north and east facing slopes. Maintain some timber value in these areas for future timber harvests
3) Clear cut some select areas for bedding and early successional growth

A map of the property and preliminary plan is below. Any suggestions on this plan and general recommendations when having a property logged?

First of all, LOL, I think you need to Change your name to Shermanwhitetail as you clearly have left the Weston stomp'in grounds for parts slightly north of there... I cut my teeth hunting the area around that property... not sure when you moved into the old hood but congrats. How did this gun season fair for you.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

Have you considered a MFL plan?

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

What species are you planning on harvesting? I had my SE MN place logged 2 years ago and I'm happy with how it turned out. I would definitely find a logger who is willing to harvest all of the "other" trees as you don't want to have the junk trees seeding out the areas that were previously filled with oaks. In my area, white/bur oaks are worth a premium, but it was difficult to find loggers interested in cottonwood, elm, ash, basswood, cherry, etc. I found one and he did a good job. We left almost all of the bur oaks and cut as many of the other trees as possible. We also have some oak wilt coming through, so we cut all of the red/black oaks as they were dying anyway.

The logged out areas are extremely thick now and the tree tops provide great bedding cover. They also act as natural tree cages for seedlings coming up that would otherwise be browsed by deer.

I would consider thinking about where you want the deer to bed to improve your hunting the most and plan the logging operation around that. I think clear cutting a couple small patches for bedding purposes would be really good. Possibly leave areas alone nearby to log again in 15+ years when the current clear cuts become less desirable as a bedding area.

 

[westonwhitetail]

My first impression is "I like your plan." If you have not listed to some of the recent podcasts on timber harvests, it might be beneficial to catch up on these to ensure that you are getting the best value for your timber along with ensuring the work is done for management, not just profit.

Deer University
Whitetail Landscapes: Timber Harvests

Thank you, good idea I will check out some of these.

 

[westonwhitetail]

This seems like a pretty solid plan for your goals. I will defer to others that have more experience with logging.

As was mentioned already by @356, there are some great resources out there. We have been considering doing some logging in a portion of a new farm so I'm just getting into this myself. But from what I have heard in a couple of these podcasts or extension publications, is that it is worth the money to bring in a private lands Forester and have a forest management plan in place. This will provide a baseline quote for your timber value currently that you can use for depreciation of the asset over time to offset tax liabilities. Also having this done opens the door for setting your property up as a tree farm, which apparently has other tax incentives beyond just a recreational or even row crop farm.

I'm going to be going through a bunch of this in the coming years so regardless of which route you go, I'd love to hear what you learn in the process.

I asked the DNR forester about setting up a Timber Basis prior to logging and his input was for a property my size and the likelihood of only logging this property 1-2 times in my lifetime, the money spent on setting a Timber Basis up would likely not be beneficial. But then he also said he was not an expert in this area and gave me some contacts to reach out to. I have not got in contact with them yet.

 

[westonwhitetail]

First of all, LOL, I think you need to Change your name to Shermanwhitetail as you clearly have left the Weston stomp'in grounds for parts slightly north of there... I cut my teeth hunting the area around that property... not sure when you moved into the old hood but congrats. How did this gun season fair for you.

I still hunt in Weston some with family so the name still works I hope! I bought this property in Sherman 3 years ago now because I felt it was a good deal and it fit a lot of the check marks I had in mind for a property, even though its a new area. Gun season was kinda uneventful for us, kind of quite. We still got some venison for the freezer but deer sightings were down and no big bucks

 

[westonwhitetail]

Have you considered a MFL plan?

This property is just coming out of the MFL program this year. The plan was focused on timber value so I have a lot of nice big trees from good prior management, but my goals are different and focused more on the wildlife/hunting side of the spectrum.

 

[omicron1792]

You could leave just some widely spaced, big oaks, and burn it early spring. Then let it go. It would become a deer paradise.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

I asked the DNR forester about setting up a Timber Basis prior to logging and his input was for a property my size and the likelihood of only logging this property 1-2 times in my lifetime, the money spent on setting a Timber Basis up would likely not be beneficial. But then he also said he was not an expert in this area and gave me some contacts to reach out to. I have not got in contact with them yet.

This is how Missouri (and I believe most states) do timber cost basis:

Determining Timber Cost Basis

Hank StelzerForestry State SpecialistSchool of Natural ResourcesAs a forest landowner, you may someday contemplate the sale of your timber (Figure 1). The gain from the sale of the timber can represent either a capital gain or an ordinary income gain. In either case, you will be required to pay...

extension.missouri.edu

The way I understand it, determining whether or not it is worthwhile depends on how much you can expect from capital gains from the sale of the timber in addition to the cost of hiring an appraisal.

Here is a link to the federal guidelines. This is all way over my head at this point, but I have just started digging into it:

Forest landowners’ guide to the Federal income tax | US Forest Service Research and Development

www.fs.usda.gov

 

[Wind Gypsy]

My only comment is that plan looks like you would be creating prime bedding right against the property line for your neighbor. If there is a way to keep some space and make it not feel like part of the safe oasis you are creating directly adjacent to your neighbor, that would be appealing to me.

 

[westonwhitetail]

What species are you planning on harvesting? I had my SE MN place logged 2 years ago and I'm happy with how it turned out. I would definitely find a logger who is willing to harvest all of the "other" trees as you don't want to have the junk trees seeding out the areas that were previously filled with oaks. In my area, white/bur oaks are worth a premium, but it was difficult to find loggers interested in cottonwood, elm, ash, basswood, cherry, etc. I found one and he did a good job. We left almost all of the bur oaks and cut as many of the other trees as possible. We also have some oak wilt coming through, so we cut all of the red/black oaks as they were dying anyway.

The logged out areas are extremely thick now and the tree tops provide great bedding cover. They also act as natural tree cages for seedlings coming up that would otherwise be browsed by deer.

I would consider thinking about where you want the deer to bed to improve your hunting the most and plan the logging operation around that. I think clear cutting a couple small patches for bedding purposes would be really good. Possibly leave areas alone nearby to log again in 15+ years when the current clear cuts become less desirable as a bedding area.

One logger I have talked to so far that actually sent me a contract after he walked the land. I have not signed it but he gave prices for a variety including red oak, hard maple, white oak, basswood, black oak, hardwood bolts, aspen, and pulp. So by this I am assuming he is proposing to take a variety of species, but I will be walking it with him in the morning to discuss it more. I will make sure to ask him that.

My woods is 70-80% maple, lots of hard maple. There is some oak on the tops of ridges and south facing slopes. I would like them to thin out the maple to allow some light to the floor and also take some of the oaks if they are valuable, but I do want to leave many oaks still for acorns. Was thinking they could take the most valuable oaks (tall and straight) and leave the the younger ones and crooked ones.

 

[westonwhitetail]

My only comment is that plan looks like you would be creating prime bedding right against the property line for your neighbor. If there is a way to keep some space and make it not feel like part of the safe oasis you are creating directly adjacent to your neighbor, that would be appealing to me.

Good Point. I was try to tuck those areas between the base of the hill and the property line in areas that were more gradual terrain so the deer would use them to bed. I was trying to make them a big as possible. in areas we don't currently utilize much, that the deer would hopefully bed in. I could reduce the size to get them away from the property boundary, how big is needed to make a clear cut appealing for bedding?

 

[PatinPA]

I've said this on here before but my place was predominantly dying hemlock. I had all of them removed about 5 years ago now. Mostly what is left is oak and beech but it has grown back almost all black birch which I don't consider a good tree for deer anyway. It does grow fast and come in thick. I was looking around during rifle season and some of it is 15-20 feet tall already. There is some really nice cover now and while I don't hold many deer, I do hold a few and the amount of deer seen has been night and day from when it was hemlocks. The weird part is my neighbor had his timbered the same way at the same time and his didn't grow up very much at all. Not sure if he had more oaks that kept everything shaded or what.

 

[b116757]

I would likely leave the majority of the oaks since there are not a lot of them clown releasing the younger nicer trees perhaps taking some of the largest saw log trees just for a bit of profit but don’t get carried away taking all the best oaks. Hard maple is a good timber tree but rather a poor deer tree so even a bit of clear cutting of the maple wouldn’t be a bad thing. That property seem to be quite steep in areas if you have a natural high point overlooking a lower area the lower area clear cut would likely make for a fantastic kill box. I have one of those situations on a couple properties I do a major crown release or clear cut the lower area below the nature high point that I can easily access that overlooks the kill box this has been a particularly effective approach for me over the years for rifle hunting.

 

[omicron1792]

I would likely leave the majority of the oaks since there are not a lot of them clown releasing the younger nicer trees perhaps taking some of the largest saw log trees just for a bit of profit but don’t get carried away taking all the best oaks. Hard maple is a good timber tree but rather a poor deer tree so even a bit of clear cutting of the maple wouldn’t be a bad thing. That property seem to be quite steep in areas if you have a natural high point overlooking a lower area the lower area clear cut would likely make for a fantastic kill box. I have one of those situations on a couple properties I do a major crown release or clear cut the lower area below the nature high point that I can easily access that overlooks the kill box this has been a particularly effective approach for me over the years for rifle hunting.

Agree with this. You might not get acorns for 20 more years from the small and crooked trees. Leave a few big ones widely spaced and it will pay off.