Timber Harvest

[Telemark]

We also found that clusters of spruce with space in between them - 20 ft. or so, that has grass & weeds growing between the trees is super deer bedding area. FWIW.

This is what I am going to start creating. I want a patchwork of switchgrass and spruce for deer to hide in and avoid the wolves and coyotes.

 

[PatinPA]

Did they do any spraying before the cut? We're working towards having our place in PA cut, but the Forester strongly suggests spraying first to keep the ferns and low grade species back. He specifically mentioned black birch.

No spraying. Unfortunately at the time I didn't know much about invasives or I would've been more proactive. I don't mind the birch because it at least provides good cover. The stiltgrass and the mile-a-minute I could do without though.

 

[omicron1792]

No spraying. Unfortunately at the time I didn't know much about invasives or I would've been more proactive. I don't mind the birch because it at least provides good cover. The stiltgrass and the mile-a-minute I could do without though.

I’ve had good luck with imazapic for stiltgrass and it really encourages good natives.

Many native forbs can tolerate up to 4oz/acre and grasses 6-8oz/acre. Often you will read of using up to 12oz/acre of imazapic. I’ve had success spraying 4-6oz early spring for suppression. 2-3 months later (usually when imazapic wears off) come back and spray another 2-4oz/acre. Sometimes you can even get a third spraying in at end of season too. Most of the literature says no more than 12oz/acre for a season, but no reason you can’t split it up.

 

[omicron1792]

Mile-a-minute

Mile-a-minute (Persicaria perfoliata) is an invasive vine and noxious weed in PA. This article displays images to assist with identification and provides recommendations for control, including a management calendar and treatment and timing table.

extension.psu.edu

Talks about using imazapic for both weeds in your exact scenario!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I've tried planting spruce in logged out areas, but they struggle competing with faster growing regrowth unless you are able to spray or cut around each tree. But if there is no competition around the tree, you'll need a tree cage to preven the bucks from rubbing on the tree.

Have your logger leave the tree tops where they land and you will have the best bedding in the area.

Very accurate post, from our camp's perspective. The tops became a buffet for the deer as well as bedding. The deer moved in the first night after logging started at our place.

We also caged any spruce seedlings we didn't want to chance, so they had time to grow and get established. Didn't hurt to toss some 10-10-10 around them each April.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Did they do any spraying before the cut? We're working towards having our place in PA cut, but the Forester strongly suggests spraying first to keep the ferns and low grade species back. He specifically mentioned black birch.

The foresters know what to do, as they don't want bad reviews = less future work. Just be sure the forester is a licensed, certified forester. Check their credentials & education.

As for black birch - it's a natural, native species that loves north slopes. When we did logging at our camp, several foresters told us that we'd get lots of black birch popping on our north slope after logging. They were right. We had deer browse it some - but not a favorite. But the young birch came in thick, and deer used the cover for bedding and security when travelling the skid trails (switchbacks) the loggers made. (Our camp is in NC Pa. mountains.)

North slopes will become home to tree species that like north slopes. Expecting to get a batch of oaks growing on a north slope will be a disappointment. Ask your forester what to expect for native tree species after logging - in any area - north slope, south slope, ridge top, etc. I had a state forester in the family, so I learned a lot from him. One of the things he told me was certain trees will do well in areas where they appear naturally ........ and they won't do well where they do not appear naturally. Basically - don't go to war with nature. Ask your forester(s) a batch of questions - they'll be happy to answer them.

 

[J B]

I'd probably do both pine and spruce then for variety. In the future I want to convert a chunk of my ag field to Native grasses with pines mixed in for more cover. I love areas like those, they just feel like deer should be behind every corner!

I’m sure this year will be busy with the logging, but I wouldn’t drag my feet very long on the grasses and pines. I think they would help your property a lot. Could still leave the bulk of it in ag. Deer like edge and you could set it up to ambush them.

 

[RGrizzzz]

The foresters know what to do, as they don't want bad reviews = less future work. Just be sure the forester is a licensed, certified forester. Check their credentials & education.

As for black birch - it's a natural, native species that loves north slopes. When we did logging at our camp, several foresters told us that we'd get lots of black birch popping on our north slope after logging. They were right. We had deer browse it some - but not a favorite. But the young birch came in thick, and deer used the cover for bedding and security when travelling the skid trails (switchbacks) the loggers made. (Our camp is in NC Pa. mountains.)

North slopes will become home to tree species that like north slopes. Expecting to get a batch of oaks growing on a north slope will be a disappointment. Ask your forester what to expect for native tree species after logging - in any area - north slope, south slope, ridge top, etc. I had a state forester in the family, so I learned a lot from him. One of the things he told me was certain trees will do well in areas where they appear naturally ........ and they won't do well where they do not appear naturally. Basically - don't go to war with nature. Ask your forester(s) a batch of questions - they'll be happy to answer them.

We have mostly maple and hickory with some cherry mixed in. Very little oak, so we aren't expecting much/any to come in during the cut. We really want the place to thicken up, but would like the current stand mix to no change significantly, where possible.

 

[PatinPA]

Did they do any spraying before the cut? We're working towards having our place in PA cut, but the Forester strongly suggests spraying first to keep the ferns and low grade species back. He specifically mentioned black birch.

Here is what the thickest part of my black birch looks like. A lot of stem count that's for sure. It's 20 feet tall in some places after only 5 years.

 

[omicron1792]

Here is what the thickest part of my black birch looks like. A lot of stem count that's for sure. It's 20 feet tall in some places after only 5 years.
View attachment 60188

How many acres are like that?

A forestry mulcher would do wonders for that. Then you can spray triclopyr over the top of it anytime areas start popping back up.

 

[Ruffdude]

Don't make your clearcuts too small, the deer browse will stop it from ever regenerating if enough acres are not cut together.
In my county they recommend 20 acre minimum for aspen regen but our forester says 30, we usually do 40's. We did a 7 acre cut once and it looks like a desert to this day.

And hire a Forester and get a Forest management plan in place before you let anyone else on your property.
The Forester will bid out your timber for sale and deal with the logger, the fee you pay him/her will be the best money you've spent.

 

[PatinPA]

How many acres are like that?

A forestry mulcher would do wonders for that. Then you can spray triclopyr over the top of it anytime areas start popping back up.

It's probably 8 acres that are like that. I don't mind the birch. Granted I'd like better trees but I only have 12 acres so I'm not really worried about the eventual timber sales anyway. My oaks are all twisted and stunted from trying to find light in a hemlock forest so I doubt I'll get much in my lifetime. I actually called a company about a mulcher because they stripped the limbs off the hemlocks on the spot of each tree so there are just piles of branches everywhere.

 

[Skye King]

I’ve had extensive cutting done over last 4 years. Things I’ve learned.

1. Loggers are gonna get the easy stuff and leave the hard stuff. Any talk of conservative approaches on slopes is they don’t want to work on the slopes.

2. They care nothing about your roads. You MUST have in signed contract they will leave roads as good or better than before.

3. They leave a mess. You MUST have in your contract whatever you want it to look like after. Rake debris. Remove debris. Burn debris

4. Generally the trees you care about most for wildlife (oaks) are the trees that make them most at the mills. If there are trees you want to keep, you better mark them and take pictures.

5. Did I say they will cut the easy stuff and leave the hard stuff?

Just what I learned.

 

[Skye King]

I’ve had extensive cutting done over last 4 years. Things I’ve learned.

1. Loggers are gonna get the easy stuff and leave the hard stuff. Any talk of conservative approaches on slopes is they don’t want to work on the slopes.

2. They care nothing about your roads. You MUST have in signed contract they will leave roads as good or better than before.

3. They leave a mess. You MUST have in your contract whatever you want it to look like after. Rake debris. Remove debris. Burn debris

4. Generally the trees you care about most for wildlife (oaks) are the trees that make them most at the mills. If there are trees you want to keep, you better mark them and take pictures.

5. Did I say they will cut the easy stuff and leave the hard stuff?

Just what I learned.

I agree with everything you said. I had my woods thinned a few years ago and thought my contract was a good one. IMO, loggers don't give a rip about your plans. They job is to make money and not to create a hunting paradise.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

It's probably 8 acres that are like that. I don't mind the birch. Granted I'd like better trees but I only have 12 acres so I'm not really worried about the eventual timber sales anyway. My oaks are all twisted and stunted from trying to find light in a hemlock forest so I doubt I'll get much in my lifetime. I actually called a company about a mulcher because they stripped the limbs off the hemlocks on the spot of each tree so there are just piles of branches everywhere.

Your black birch section looks just like ours. North slope, etc. What we've seen in our section is the BB will thin themselves out to a point, and other things will grow in there. We planted some Norway spruce seedlings after it was logged (27 years ago) - the first ones planted are now about 25 to 30 feet tall. Some of the white pines and hemlocks that were left after logging have spread seed, so we have younger WP and hemlock seedlings & saplings in there. Some red maples also have taken hold there, along with some white birch and witch hazel clusters.

The high stem counts seemed to be great cover for deer travelling from the other side of our mountain road (which is another property), up along the logging switchback trails to our food plots. It got thick after the logging, which drew more deer into that section for bedding and travel. It's much better than the wide-open, telephone-pole woods we had prior to logging!

 

[westonwhitetail]

Is anyone involved in the TImber Industry? Just curious if anyone has a feel if timber values high, low, or average right now?

 

[Skye King]

https://www.lsuagcenter.com/~/media/system/c/a/5/6/ca563a63407dca2c1a5f255d41e143d4/louisiana%20stumpage%20report%20agcenter%202022%204qpdf.pdf

Here is what stumpage prices are in Louisiana.

 

[PatinPA]

Your black birch section looks just like ours. North slope, etc. What we've seen in our section is the BB will thin themselves out to a point, and other things will grow in there. We planted some Norway spruce seedlings after it was logged (27 years ago) - the first ones planted are now about 25 to 30 feet tall. Some of the white pines and hemlocks that were left after logging have spread seed, so we have younger WP and hemlock seedlings & saplings in there. Some red maples also have taken hold there, along with some white birch and witch hazel clusters.

The high stem counts seemed to be great cover for deer travelling from the other side of our mountain road (which is another property), up along the logging switchback trails to our food plots. It got thick after the logging, which drew more deer into that section for bedding and travel. It's much better than the wide-open, telephone-pole woods we had prior to logging!

I've noticed some small white pine and hemlock seedlings popping up here and there. I might try to transplant some of them. I planted some Norways years ago to screen the driveway. Only a few survived and have maybe grown 6 inches in 5-6 years. I might try to move them too because I planted them way too close to the driveway. When they do reach maturity I'm going to have to trim branches to be able to drive down the driveway.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I've noticed some small white pine and hemlock seedlings popping up here and there. I might try to transplant some of them. I planted some Norways years ago to screen the driveway. Only a few survived and have maybe grown 6 inches in 5-6 years. I might try to move them too because I planted them way too close to the driveway. When they do reach maturity I'm going to have to trim branches to be able to drive down the driveway.

My one son and I planted a few rows of Norways after that logging to screen off from the mountain road. Those are the ones that I said (above) are 25 to 30 feet tall now. Once you transplant your Norways, maybe try tossing some 10-10-10 around them. I've found that to get 'em perking & growing faster.

That's good news you have some white pine and hemlock seedlings popping on their own. Free is great!

 

[omicron1792]

I likes the sounds of this. I need cover during gun season, because when the pressure is on I currently don't have the cover for deer to come to and feel safe. This is exactly the types of stands I would like to have for gun season.

Bucks during rut loooove to cruise just inside timberline against a clear cut on downwind side.

On my property clear cutting was like putting deer hunting on steroids!