Brian662
5 year old buck +
Anyone trying shingle oaks in 4B with any success?
Best Midwest bedding/Cover possible?
- Thread starter williams111
- Start date
BuckSutherland
5 year old buck +
^^^^
Plant swamp white oak and dont even think twice about it.
I live 50 miles west of Somaliapolis and the SWOs around here are awesome trees. A lot of them produce a crop yearly (some years very large crops). Expect October drop times, unlike burr oak that drops towards the end of August/ early Sept. I have planted about 50 on my land east of Leech Lake so far and I have them around my bedrooms and along my travel corridors. I have them stuffed in by cedars, spruce, pine, fir, hemlock, switchgrass, dogwood and now some crab apples. My plan is to continue planting about 10 per year for the next 10 years. I am expecting production by year 8-10. Lots of local NRCS carry them for spring tree sale and they and nice for the price.
Plant swamp white oak and dont even think twice about it.
I live 50 miles west of Somaliapolis and the SWOs around here are awesome trees. A lot of them produce a crop yearly (some years very large crops). Expect October drop times, unlike burr oak that drops towards the end of August/ early Sept. I have planted about 50 on my land east of Leech Lake so far and I have them around my bedrooms and along my travel corridors. I have them stuffed in by cedars, spruce, pine, fir, hemlock, switchgrass, dogwood and now some crab apples. My plan is to continue planting about 10 per year for the next 10 years. I am expecting production by year 8-10. Lots of local NRCS carry them for spring tree sale and they and nice for the price.
john volkman
5 year old buck +
Im in NE wi , so its different than Eastern iowa but i did something very similar to what your plan is but i did it on about 20 acres of the 40 i live on, the other 20 was used for a wetland, my homestead, A large pollinator planting and an ag field i use for waterfowl hunting.
My advice is to not get to wrapped up in the switchgrass hype, i started with some 100% switch plantings and others that also had Big Blue , indian grass and others mixed in.
Over the past 5-7yearsI have been converting much of the NWSG fields to a more diverse pollinator miix that contains more forbs but still has grass, the deer utilize it even more than they did the pure grass stands and you will get more enjoyment out of it than just the grass. Heavy snow is hard on all of it and it had limited bedding in it during the winter once we had deep snow , the deer head for the thicker shrubs and tree cover in those situations. You will get much more wildlife use out of a diverse pollinator mix, especially in spring summer and fall. Creating a lot of edge has worked well for me and i started with nothing but a alfalfa field 15 years ago.
The deer seem to love to bed on the edge of the pollinator but up next the shrub and tree edges . The most beneficial species for me , have been wild plum, Spruce , dogwood , Balsam poplar tamarack ,crabapple and apple , and pollinator forbs in the nwsg mix .I wish i had planted a lot more wild plum. I also recently planted swamp white oak and some other species where I also fenced in 2 - 1 acre plots to replace the ash that the emerald ash borer wiped out. Its hard to see in the attached image but you can see the edges and the Pollinator plantings if you look close on the right side of the screenshot.
this is my opinion, but not a fan of miscanthus, i think its an eye sore, and you can accomplish the same thing as far as screening with native shrub and tree plantings (although it may take a few more years) and at least you will actually then benefit the wildlife on your property.
My advice is to not get to wrapped up in the switchgrass hype, i started with some 100% switch plantings and others that also had Big Blue , indian grass and others mixed in.
Over the past 5-7yearsI have been converting much of the NWSG fields to a more diverse pollinator miix that contains more forbs but still has grass, the deer utilize it even more than they did the pure grass stands and you will get more enjoyment out of it than just the grass. Heavy snow is hard on all of it and it had limited bedding in it during the winter once we had deep snow , the deer head for the thicker shrubs and tree cover in those situations. You will get much more wildlife use out of a diverse pollinator mix, especially in spring summer and fall. Creating a lot of edge has worked well for me and i started with nothing but a alfalfa field 15 years ago.
The deer seem to love to bed on the edge of the pollinator but up next the shrub and tree edges . The most beneficial species for me , have been wild plum, Spruce , dogwood , Balsam poplar tamarack ,crabapple and apple , and pollinator forbs in the nwsg mix .I wish i had planted a lot more wild plum. I also recently planted swamp white oak and some other species where I also fenced in 2 - 1 acre plots to replace the ash that the emerald ash borer wiped out. Its hard to see in the attached image but you can see the edges and the Pollinator plantings if you look close on the right side of the screenshot.
this is my opinion, but not a fan of miscanthus, i think its an eye sore, and you can accomplish the same thing as far as screening with native shrub and tree plantings (although it may take a few more years) and at least you will actually then benefit the wildlife on your property.
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BuckSutherland
5 year old buck +
I was in one of the local towns today. Snapped a few pictures of some white cedar windbreaks. Also took some photos of some swamp white oak trees . Still holding quite a few leaves on 1/26/2024. White cedar is one of my absolute favorite wildlife trees. Without the big white cedar swamps by my hunting land we would have very few deer would be able to survive. Those big swamps are ESSENTIAL for winter survival. They (white cedar trees) are also a giant magnet for deer activity during hunting season on more upland sites. This spring I will reach 100+ caged white cedar. They have really good growth on my land. There was only 1 when I started in 2020.
Also one local crab holding a bigly amount yet. Sorry for the poor picture quality from the truck.
Also one local crab holding a bigly amount yet. Sorry for the poor picture quality from the truck.
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S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
My family entered our valley property into a gov program. It was planted in a diverse wildflower and grass mix. The jury is still out on whether or not it was a success.
What is going on ten plus years later is a mix of mainly golden rod, wild flowers, Indian and big blue stem grass.
Some years the grass comes on strong and other years the forbs come on strong depending on environmental conditions.
I burn 1/3 of it off every April. It mainly flattens down over winter but the rest of the year it is money. Fantastic fawning habitat and the bucks are in it heavily during the rut. I’d like to do more shrub/tree plantings in it but that takes a lot of time and money. Top that off with the added difficulty of managing with fire.
My work load is heavy spring through freeze up. Hoping some day I can lighten up the work load and do more management on the property to create more predictable movement patterns.
Until then it is what it is and that’s pretty decent.
Monocultures of tall grasses imo are highly overrated.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What is going on ten plus years later is a mix of mainly golden rod, wild flowers, Indian and big blue stem grass.
Some years the grass comes on strong and other years the forbs come on strong depending on environmental conditions.
I burn 1/3 of it off every April. It mainly flattens down over winter but the rest of the year it is money. Fantastic fawning habitat and the bucks are in it heavily during the rut. I’d like to do more shrub/tree plantings in it but that takes a lot of time and money. Top that off with the added difficulty of managing with fire.
My work load is heavy spring through freeze up. Hoping some day I can lighten up the work load and do more management on the property to create more predictable movement patterns.
Until then it is what it is and that’s pretty decent.
Monocultures of tall grasses imo are highly overrated.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
BuckSutherland
5 year old buck +
^^^
I converted the old food plots to switchgrass. I have them all rimmed with conifers. After a few years with the switch I've already decided that I'll be planting willows, dogwoods, cedars into the switch and eventually more apples. I wanna close it up more and make more edge and browse and also take advantage of the full sun those areas provide. They love to bed in it during the summer, but it just seems too open once hunting starts. Our copious amounts of snow east of leech lake have no problem flattening it out in the winter.
I do wanna start a couple other smaller patches of native grasses in my other bedroom areas. Maybe 200-800 sq ft random patches. I agree with you and John the monocultures are not great. Probably would have helped my switch if it would have rained at some point in the last 3 years. Been through some TOUGH droughts.
I converted the old food plots to switchgrass. I have them all rimmed with conifers. After a few years with the switch I've already decided that I'll be planting willows, dogwoods, cedars into the switch and eventually more apples. I wanna close it up more and make more edge and browse and also take advantage of the full sun those areas provide. They love to bed in it during the summer, but it just seems too open once hunting starts. Our copious amounts of snow east of leech lake have no problem flattening it out in the winter.
I do wanna start a couple other smaller patches of native grasses in my other bedroom areas. Maybe 200-800 sq ft random patches. I agree with you and John the monocultures are not great. Probably would have helped my switch if it would have rained at some point in the last 3 years. Been through some TOUGH droughts.
williams111
5 year old buck +
The more I’m thinking about this project the more I’m thinking I will forget about any sort of CRP program. It’s not going to be a huge loss rent wise and then I can do whatever I want with it. Everyone here has a different idea. My plan now is to decommission a small piece every year and plant a diverse mix of switch, shrubs, trees, and conifers with proper protection and allowing some areas go on their own. I think I’ll be a lot happier in the long run being able to plant whatever I want, wherever I want.
Brian662
5 year old buck +
Drag some tree tops into that switch and the grass will grow in/around the tops. The tree tops will prop it up for structure when the snow flattens the rest. Also will give birds a perch to crap out shrub seeds, mother nature may execute your plans for you that way.
john volkman
5 year old buck +
you may want to talk to your area NRCS office and look into CSP and or Equip , the contract period can be shorter and the payments are good, that is mostly what i am in now after initially goign with CRP. You can enroll 1 acre at a time instead of all 5 .
Telemark
5 year old buck +
I think that's what I will end up going with. You think they are superior to Schuettes oak in your region?
Where do you usually order your SWO from?
TreeDaddy
5 year old buck +
Telemark
5 year old buck +
They have some excellent prices. I'll have to check their availability.
BuckSutherland
5 year old buck +
^^^
I order my seedlings from the local NRCS. They are good quality. Price is good enough for me since I am already stopping there to get my potted conifers. Most of my trees come from NRCS county sales. Always pleased with the quality. I have a few Schuttes planted in my woods and they are really struggling. I want the SWO cause of the later drop times. Their acorns are awesome.
I order my seedlings from the local NRCS. They are good quality. Price is good enough for me since I am already stopping there to get my potted conifers. Most of my trees come from NRCS county sales. Always pleased with the quality. I have a few Schuttes planted in my woods and they are really struggling. I want the SWO cause of the later drop times. Their acorns are awesome.
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
The problem with oaks is they do not provide any thermal cover. As they grow tall, they produce a heavy canopy leaving very little understory cover. Great for food source but lacking in cover IMHO. In tall canopy with little understory sight lines are long.
If you want cover, you will need to plant conifers. Norwegian & white spruce, red & white cedar are excellent for thermal cover and eliminate long sight lines.
Plant in blocks of 25-30 and make sure you cage them, deer will browse and definitely rub them. Space them 12'-14' apart, too close and they will drop lower branches over time reducing cover.
If you want cover, you will need to plant conifers. Norwegian & white spruce, red & white cedar are excellent for thermal cover and eliminate long sight lines.
Plant in blocks of 25-30 and make sure you cage them, deer will browse and definitely rub them. Space them 12'-14' apart, too close and they will drop lower branches over time reducing cover.
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jsasker007
5 year old buck +
I have a bad habit of being too bored with too much extra time on my hands. I wind up placing orders for lots of things I'm thinking about during the winter months and half the time I forgot what all was ordered then when I'm busy and don't have a lot of extra time all my orders start showing up. You'd think I would learn but I just did it again a couple of days ago. Always puts me in a bind to get everything planted but in hindsight it's well worth it. Timing just sucks
Hoytvectrix
5 year old buck +
I don't feel like I have too much time on my hands, but I have definitely fallen victim to this. Some people get drunk and order stuff on Amazon. I order trees I think would be cool to plant (with or without the help of alcohol).
That happens to me almost every year. Planting 600 trees sounds like a great idea when you are staring at snow drifts in January, but when the trees arrive in April and the fish are biting it seems pretty dumb. Having said that, I've been really happy with the long term results of larger tree/shrub plantings.
Telemark
5 year old buck +
I'm guilty of shirking my habitat duties when the fishing conditions are prime. Ends up taking a whole day with my sister's kids in tow and then filleting, packaging, weighing. I just can't resist spot fishing smallmouths and brookies when the lake is glass though. Never regretted it either.
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