Concordia Oaks and Swamp / Bur Hybrids
- Thread starter almanac12
- Start date
Knehrke
5 year old buck +
I have a love-hate relationship with tubes. They are easy to install and relatively cheap. But every sort of critter in the woods seems to want to use them as a home. Wasps in the face? Check. Mice nesting in the bottom and girdling the trees? Double check. Deer munching the fresh growth, particularly if the tubes aren't at least five feet tall? You got it.
And if you use wooden stakes to support the tubes, you're going to deal with rot and tubes falling over on you once things get past two years in the ground. I also think that tubed trees grow spindly, with lots of junk on the trunk.
To combat these issues, we use 12-18" of metal screen stapled around the base of the tree and buried slightly in the dirt. It helps protect against mice. We use PVC stakes rather than wood. Don't bevel the ends, even if it seems that will help them to go into the ground better - they won't go in straight. And we remove the tubes as soon as the trees are above browse height. Oh, and you need to pull dead leaves and whatnot out of the tubes at least once a year, generally in the late winter or early spring. Maintenance is crucial or you'll just be growing tubes and not trees.
I think that I'm upwards of 3000 tubes on one property now. Lots of 5' tubes for hardwood and 3' tubes that I got used for shrubs. The later are a joke. Maybe they allowed the root systems to develop, but NOTHING gets out of the tube without being browsed. We are gradually removing the tubes, and the shrubs without tubes are actually growing. I think that the deer key in on the tubes themselves lol. Admittedly, we are in a very high density area. Regardless, it's disheartening to put so much work in and watch trees succumb over the course of a few years - if we're batting .500 on hardwoods in tubes, I'd be surprised. Shrubs? Forgedaboudit.
Fruit trees get caged, and we've lost only one out of a hundred or so. That's the kind of math I like.
And if you use wooden stakes to support the tubes, you're going to deal with rot and tubes falling over on you once things get past two years in the ground. I also think that tubed trees grow spindly, with lots of junk on the trunk.
To combat these issues, we use 12-18" of metal screen stapled around the base of the tree and buried slightly in the dirt. It helps protect against mice. We use PVC stakes rather than wood. Don't bevel the ends, even if it seems that will help them to go into the ground better - they won't go in straight. And we remove the tubes as soon as the trees are above browse height. Oh, and you need to pull dead leaves and whatnot out of the tubes at least once a year, generally in the late winter or early spring. Maintenance is crucial or you'll just be growing tubes and not trees.
I think that I'm upwards of 3000 tubes on one property now. Lots of 5' tubes for hardwood and 3' tubes that I got used for shrubs. The later are a joke. Maybe they allowed the root systems to develop, but NOTHING gets out of the tube without being browsed. We are gradually removing the tubes, and the shrubs without tubes are actually growing. I think that the deer key in on the tubes themselves lol. Admittedly, we are in a very high density area. Regardless, it's disheartening to put so much work in and watch trees succumb over the course of a few years - if we're batting .500 on hardwoods in tubes, I'd be surprised. Shrubs? Forgedaboudit.
Fruit trees get caged, and we've lost only one out of a hundred or so. That's the kind of math I like.
williams111
5 year old buck +
I have been using Plantra Sunflex Tree Tubes with their provided fiberglass stake for 3 years now, haven't had a single mouse in any of the tubes although I do get wasps. I think they work great and I can get the 5' tube and their recommended stake for $5. I have Oaks, Chestnut, Persimmon and Pecan planted in the tubes and all seem to be doing well so far.
I use window screen wrapped on the bottom of my fruit trees (they are caged) and I have rocks stone around the bottom of the screen to help prevent mice/voles from burrowing. Could rocks and stone be put around the tubes too? I know that would be expensive and a lot of work at scale, but in my case, the number of trees I will be planting and tubing will be limited. I am now concerned over the mice/vole burrowing under the tubes. I have lots of voles on my land in MI.
MilkweedManiac
5 year old buck +
Nice! Where are those available? Might try to pick some up next year. My previously planted trees from but are waking up for their second year!
bwoods11
5 year old buck +
I ordered plugs from Itasca Greenhouse in MN. You can also look at Kelly Tree Farm in Iowa for bare root. I have used both.
MilkweedManiac
5 year old buck +
Great! I will bookmark them both as a future reference. Best wishes with planting. I received my small order from Missouri Dept. Conservation yesterday. My back is also sore lol.
williams111
5 year old buck +
I planted 50 "bottomland" burr oak from Iowa Sate Nursery. I assume they are the same thing as Swamp/Bur Oak. They were under a dollar each and 20-30" if I remember correctly.
bwoods11
5 year old buck +
How are they doing?
williams111
5 year old buck +
They were just planted last April, I didn't expect much last year. Although there were actually a couple that peeked out of the top of a 5' tube. It will be fun to watch them. I dont believe the Iowa State Nursery has this variety now. Not sure what happened. I also planted 50 SWO, it'll be interesting to see how they compare.
williams111
5 year old buck +
Checked mine over the weekend. They are looking great as well. Here is one of the better ones I came across. That is a 5' tube. The tree was planted as a 20-30" bareroot tree last year. 
williams111
5 year old buck +
Not sure if anyone is still looking, but the Iowa State Nursery still has some of these bottomland bur oak seedlings available. This is what is pictured in the above post. Here is the link https://nursery.iowadnr.gov/Bottomland-Bur-Oak_p_209.html
BuckSutherland
5 year old buck +
Here is a bare root burr oak I planted last year. I have a weed mat and mulch on it, gets sun 60-70% of the day. In a 5 foot tube. Been in the ground only about 13 months. I injected a little 19-19-19 into the soil a few weeks ago about 12-18" away from the central leader. All of my bareroot oaks from last year have had PHENOMENAL growth. If it would ever rain I suspect several of them will push the top of the tube after 2 summers.
This burr oak was planted in either 2013 or 2014 as a plug from Itasca. It is just tubed with a weed mat and has never been fertilized. Really got smacked hard by the frost last Friday. I would guess it is approximately 11-12 feet tall.
This burr oak was planted in either 2013 or 2014 as a plug from Itasca. It is just tubed with a weed mat and has never been fertilized. Really got smacked hard by the frost last Friday. I would guess it is approximately 11-12 feet tall.
BuckSutherland
5 year old buck +
I planted 5 burr oak gambel plugs from University of Idaho around mid May. They were shipped to me late. They have really put out a lot of growth in one month. We have had a very dry start. I would love to see what they could do with ample moisture. Hope they can survive 3 hours south of the US/Canada border. I will probably get another 5-10 for next year. They are plenty cheap to try.
bwoods11
5 year old buck +
I will have to order some of the Bur Gambel. For whatever reason they didn't take off on one of my farms, what type of soil do you have?
BuckSutherland
5 year old buck +
We have pretty shitty soil by us in Cass county (north) compared to what I am used to in McLeod county (home). There is 2-10 inches of decent dirt and then I'm guessing 40+ feet of shitty smeary clay, but oak trees really do well on my land. Lots of native red oak, I have planted about 50+ burr oaks and they really took off. 30+ Swamp white oaks seems to be having a little more trouble getting going.
One thing I did this spring was take my shovel and a pail of 19-19-19 fertilizer and put it to work. I went around to every oak tree, peeled up the weed mat, then injected about half a pop can of fertilizer into the ground about 8" deep in a slot made with the shovel. and then I close it back up I stayed away from the tree about 12-18". They really seemed to have responded. They really have nice deep dark green leaves and shot up with growth even with the complete lack of rain.
This is my first time trying burr oak gamble. I will get more next year from U of Idaho. My only concern is winter survival.
This burr oak was just planted as a bareroot last year from MDC. I would say its had poor growing conditions the past 2 season, but I have been doing a little pampering. It has never been watered.
One thing I did this spring was take my shovel and a pail of 19-19-19 fertilizer and put it to work. I went around to every oak tree, peeled up the weed mat, then injected about half a pop can of fertilizer into the ground about 8" deep in a slot made with the shovel. and then I close it back up I stayed away from the tree about 12-18". They really seemed to have responded. They really have nice deep dark green leaves and shot up with growth even with the complete lack of rain.
This is my first time trying burr oak gamble. I will get more next year from U of Idaho. My only concern is winter survival.
This burr oak was just planted as a bareroot last year from MDC. I would say its had poor growing conditions the past 2 season, but I have been doing a little pampering. It has never been watered.
