Clover growing slow maybe stunted?

eclipseman

5 year old buck +
All, I frost seeded clover in March. This winter was a bad one in NY so the clover didn’t get an early start and then we went into a drought. Anyways, the clover did come up nice in some spots but it is not tall nor is it big leaves. I would say they are like 6inches tall and the leaves are maybe 1/3-1/2 the size they should be. Could these clovers be stunted from being broadcasted too heavy? I went really heavy because I want sure if frost seeding would work. Should I through some more fertilizer?
 
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If your summer has been anything like mine, it’s stunted from heat and drought. White clover rarely does much through the summer here in TN anyways.

How heavy did you seed it?


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Is it competing with weeds or just small? Either way it often doesn't look like it should in the first year, especially if it was planted this spring. It is putting a lot into establishing it's root system. Clover really takes off it's second spring and will probably surprise you. That has been my experience.
 
Is it competing with weeds or just small? Either way it often doesn't look like it should in the first year, especially if it was planted this spring. It is putting a lot into establishing it's root system. Clover really takes off it's second spring and will probably surprise you. That has been my experience.
There are some weeds but not a lot. I was thinking of spraying with something
 
Is it competing with weeds or just small? Either way it often doesn't look like it should in the first year, especially if it was planted this spring. It is putting a lot into establishing it's root system. Clover really takes off it's second spring and will probably surprise you. That has been my experience.
I think I doubled the recommended amount as I was told clover shouldn’t choke itself out by my local coop.
 
I am willlng to bet that it’s probably completely fine. Sounds like typical first year growth. Next spring it will look much better.
 
I doubt your seeding rate is an issue. Did you plant it with a nurse crop of WR? If not, it will be fighting with more weed competition. What kind of clover did you plant. Some perennial clover varieties are low growing and others are not. The other thing to check is pH. Some varieties of clover are less drought resistant than others. Some go dormant for a long time in the summer while others stay green much longer into a drought. Just a few things to consider...
 
All, I frost seeded clover in March. This winter was a bad one in NY so the clover didn’t get an early start and then we went into a drought. Anyways, the clover did come up nice in some spots but it is not tall nor is it big leaves. I would say they are like 6inches tall and the leaves are maybe 1/3-1/2 the size they should be. Could these clovers be stunted from being broadcasted too heavy? I went really heavy because I want sure if frost seeding would work. Should I through some more fertilizer?

Did you do a soil test? Have you talked to the local seed coop, is your clover recommended for your area/soil type, etc.? Have you put in a test cage?

Frost seeding is usually recommended to be 50% of normal seeding rates. That tends to turn out to be 2-3 lbs/acre.
 
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Did you do a soil test? Have you talked to the local seed coop, is your clover recommended for your area/soil type, etc.? Have you put in a test cage?

Frost seeding is usually recommended to be 50% of normal seeding rates. That tends to turn out to be 2-3 lbs/acre.
Soil test stated pH of 6.3. I added two tons of lime early in spring. I then fertilized but I did not need much according to the soil test. The local coop told me the opposite. They said to plant heavy since frost seeding can have less germination so I doubled the rate. I planted ladino...I honestly do not remember the amount but it was close to double what their book said for drilling.
 
I doubt your seeding rate is an issue. Did you plant it with a nurse crop of WR? If not, it will be fighting with more weed competition. What kind of clover did you plant. Some perennial clover varieties are low growing and others are not. The other thing to check is pH. Some varieties of clover are less drought resistant than others. Some go dormant for a long time in the summer while others stay green much longer into a drought. Just a few things to consider...
I planted ladino clover. There are some weeds but most spots look great...just short and not large petals. Either they are stunted or they are not what I purchased. What should I spray to rid myself of the weeds...appears to be mostly other broadleaves. Most areas look good but a few areas do look bad with respect to weeds.
 
My frost seeded clover looks like you describe and I didn’t double the rate. It does have cereal rye as a nurse crop. We went from winter to August with little rain and high heat.

I’m happy to see small clover. I’m hoping fall temps and rain give it a boost.

Honestly short of irrigation there’s not much one can do but keep the weeds mowed or sprayed and wait and see.
 
Did you do a soil test? Have you talked to the local seed coop, is your clover recommended for your area/soil type, etc.? Have you put in a test cage?

Frost seeding is usually recommended to be 50% of normal seeding rates. That tends to turn out to be 2-3 lbs/acre.
You took the words right out of my mouth.
 
Soil test stated pH of 6.3. I added two tons of lime early in spring. I then fertilized but I did not need much according to the soil test. The local coop told me the opposite. They said to plant heavy since frost seeding can have less germination so I doubled the rate. I planted ladino...I honestly do not remember the amount but it was close to double what their book said for drilling.

At the end of the day we are all dealing with mother nature, our soil type, and weather we can't control. I overseeded 20 lbs of red clover and 12 lbs of jumboo white into standing beans, winter wheat & rye last September. Had very poor germination and was dis-appointed with green up this spring. We had late snow into late April and freezing temps into May.
 
My frost seeded clover looks like you describe and I didn’t double the rate. It does have cereal rye as a nurse crop. We went from winter to August with little rain and high heat.

I’m happy to see small clover. I’m hoping fall temps and rain give it a boost.

Honestly short of irrigation there’s not much one can do but keep the weeds mowed or sprayed and wait and see.
What kind of spray do you like to use with clover?
 
If it were me I would wait and for sure wouldn't spray it now as it sounds like the clover isn't yet established and is stressed.
 
Clover is slow to grow when planted. Most clover will use most of its energy, at first, to put down a good root structure with very little top growth. With clover being a COOL weather crop, your clover has probably went dormant with the summer heat. Unless the weeds and grasses overtake it, you should see additional growth this fall when the weather cools back down. I'm a BIG proponent of starting your clover in the fall with a cover crop of winter wheat or winter rye. This way you actually get two growing seasons back to back (fall and early spring) to get your clover off to a Good start and get the clover well established and above weeds and grasses. With your PH around 6.5 and the summer heat causing the clover to go dormant, I would monitor the weeds and grasses and see if it looks like they are going to overtake the clover. Mowing the weeds and grasses will keep them at bay until the weather cools. You should have a Great clover plot next spring after some cooler weather. I would also look into adding some no nitrogen fertilizer this fall to the plot. Clover loves P and K. Some 0-20-20 or 0-25-25 would be Great. Good Luck.
 
If they are mostly broadleaf weeds, I'd wait until you have rain in the forecast and simply mow. Mowing will control many broadleaf weeds. It doesn't control grasses. There are particular broadleaf weeds not controlled by mowing, but you really should understand what they are before choosing a herbicide.

Here are my thoughts for what they are worth:

Frost seeding can be an effective way to overseed thinned areas of an established clover field (at about 1/2 rate as folks suggest), but I don't find it very effective at establishing clover in areas where weeds are an issue. You end up spending more time and effort fighting weeds over the life of the clover field than you would starting over.

Clover is best planted in late summer or early fall when rain is in the forecast. It should be planted with a cereal grain nurse crop. I much prefer winter rye. The cereal becomes the attractant that first fall, not the clover in most cases. It will usually germinate, but not put on much if any growth. The next spring, the clover and winter rye are much favored by weather over most weeds. The Winter Rye takes up space and shades out weeds from getting a foot hold. Winter Rye in particular has a chemical effect suppressing weed germination as well. The Winter Rye will dominate in the spring. The perennial clover is spending most of it's energy putting down a root system. Each time the Winter Rye gets a foot or so tall, mow it back to 6"-8". This will release the clover giving it light without killing the Winter Rye. By now, the winter rye has no significant food value for deer, but that is not the purpose. Deer have plenty of other native foods at this time of year. The purpose of the Winter rye is to protect the clover from weed infiltration during establishment. By summer the winter rye will die naturally on it's own. The clover will fill in as the winter rye dies.

Depending on your location and water conditions, the clover my go dormant in the summer. Ladino goes dormant during the summer in my location, but Durana usually does not. On very dry years, the Durana may go dormant for a couple weeks at most. When the fall rains and cool evenings come they favor the clover and it will really take off.

While I like to use these best practices to establish a weed free clover field to begin, I've learned to be quite weed tolerant when it comes to established clover. There are a few problematic weeds, but for the most part, after clover is established, I simply mow once or twice a year. Weeds don't bother the deer and some broadleaf weeds are favored by deer over clover and are more nutritious. When I start with a weed free field, I get 7 to 10 years out of a durana field before weeds become a big enough issue to deal with. And, at some point, the clover will have banked enough N that it is very hard to keep grasses out. Then it becomes time to rotate into an N seeking crop for a growing season or two before rotating back to clover.

Thanks,

Jack
 
What kind of spray do you like to use with clover?

When I do spray I use butyrac 2,4-DB for broadleaf and clethodim for grass. If I use rye as a nurse crop the weeds are normally held at bay that first summer. I just let the cereal rye run its life cycle without spraying.
 
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