Cleth Spring Spraying Questions

[omicron1792]

Will clethoderm kill swamp grass that can get 4 feet tall.

No. Cleth really not much for anything over 4” tall.

Why not use gly?

 

[matinc]

Thanks omi. That's what I was wondering. This will be my first year using gly and just trying to gather all possible information.

 

[Turkey Creek]

I agree it is always better to spray Cleth when the grass has just greened up and is actively growing. It will work on taller grasses (cant speak to "Swamp Grass"), just takes longer to see the affects. Make sure you mix it with crop oil.

 

[omicron1792]

I agree it is always better to spray Cleth when the grass has just greened up and is actively growing. It will work on taller grasses (cant speak to "Swamp Grass"), just takes longer to see the affects. Make sure you mix it with crop oil.

Not the same thing, because I don’t know what swamp grass is either. But multiple studies show that cleth won’t even thin mature grass stands, much less terminate them. It will yellow them for sure, but I’ve never seen it take out any mature grasses personally.

https://fwf.tennessee.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/24/2020/07/FNR-548ADACompliantUT1.pdf

You know, it will take out tall annuals pretty easy like grain rye. So what I said above has some caveats. Guess I’m talking about mature perennials.

 

[omicron1792]

Loving your blog btw.

 

[Turkey Creek]

I do know the grasses need to be actively growing, but we routinely spray grass in our Christmas tree rows that is 2' tall and it kills it. I would guess that it varies from species to species to some extent and possibly annual vs well established perennial types.

I just looked over the publication you mentioned, thanks for that link it is a very well written publication and I will save that one to my files for future reference. It does reference the fact that mature perennial grasses are harder to control with Cleth and may require multiple applications. I can see that especially being the case in dense stands of mature grass, as the chemical is not reaching alot of the living plant tissue I would guess. Also they mention spraying in September, which by that time the NWSG is definitely mature and may already be semi-dormant. I am pretty sure that unlike trees which typically send plant reserves into the roots at the end of the growing season, grasses do so on a continuous basis when they are actively growing. Otherwise repeated mowing or haying would kill off grasses. We are more or less spot spraying, actively growing taller grasses in our Christmas tree rows.

 

[omicron1792]

I do know the grasses need to be actively growing, but we routinely spray grass in our Christmas tree rows that is 2' tall and it kills it. I would guess that it varies from species to species to some extent and possibly annual vs well established perennial types.

I just looked over the publication you mentioned, thanks for that link it is a very well written publication and I will save that one to my files for future reference. It does reference the fact that mature perennial grasses are harder to control with Cleth and may require multiple applications. I can see that especially being the case in dense stands of mature grass, as the chemical is not reaching alot of the living plant tissue I would guess. Also they mention spraying in September, which by that time the NWSG is definitely mature and may already be semi-dormant. I am pretty sure that unlike trees which typically send plant reserves into the roots at the end of the growing season, grasses do so on a continuous basis when they are actively growing. Otherwise repeated mowing or haying would kill off grasses. We are more or less spot spraying, actively growing taller grasses in our Christmas tree rows.

That’s all good info my man. I do spray it and Simazine over my eastern red cedar screens and it does keep it clean.

Check out Tennessee stuff it is so good. A guy named Craig Harper there has put out the best stuff on habitat management I have seen. Has one on Forrest stand improvement and another on food plots, both very organized and comprehensive.

 

[Turkey Creek]

That’s all good info my man. I do spray it and Simazine over my eastern red cedar screens and it does keep it clean.

Check out Tennessee stuff it is so good. A guy named Craig Harper there has put out the best stuff on habitat management I have seen. Has one on Forrest stand improvement and another on food plots, both very organized and comprehensive.

I have read his stuff and have listened to a number of podcasts that he has been on. He is a knowledgeable guy with lots of experience.

 

[matinc]

By swamp grass I mean the grass you see in this cleared lane. By end of summer it can be 4 feet tall. Curious if it would be smarter to plant buckwheat, crimp and then spray cleth or gly. Or plant buckwheat spray and then crimp. Incidently this quarter acre area was ferns n huckleberry. Super low ph and after 1500 pounds of lime the soil is actually growing some clover.

 

[NorthWI]

More yellowing occurring and the clover is way more evident (and we haven’t even gotten any rain!) added the pic down the dividing line between my “good” plot and the one I hit with cleth..quite an impressive difference View attachment 53042
View attachment 53043Are those fruit trees you have caged in the plot? Is Cleth safe to spray around apple trees?

 

[NorthWI]

Are those fruit trees you have caged in the plot? Is it safe to spray Cleth by apple trees?

 

[Derek Reese 29]

Are those fruit trees you have caged in the plot? Is it safe to spray Cleth by apple trees?

As far as I could tell it didn’t have an impact on them? I think cleth is grass specific..definitely wouldn’t spray gly like I did around those fruit trees.

 

[bigboreblr]

By swamp grass I mean the grass you see in this cleared lane. By end of summer it can be 4 feet tall. Curious if it would be smarter to plant buckwheat, crimp and then spray cleth or gly. Or plant buckwheat spray and then crimp. Incidently this quarter acre area was ferns n huckleberry. Super low ph and after 1500 pounds of lime the soil is actually growing some clover.

matinc,

Swamp grass? I'd that better. Sedges can grow in seasonally flooded areas well. Cleth does nothing to them. IF it is sedge, gly stunts them and grows back from the root system, much like clover.

Take a look at mace sedge and yellow nutsedge online. IF it's that, you got a battle ahead of you. Spray gly and respraying about 3 weeks later can set it back alot. otherwise you need sedge specific treatments. Thankfully, its got a good seed propogater. It will come back again at some point.

 

[matinc]

Bigbore. Your correct after doing the research it is sedge. The area I am taking about is on the inside of a 20 acre spaghum leather leaf swamp with huckleberrybushes . This is the first higher area outside of the swamp. Which I made into 2 shooting lanes. Clover has not done well even after adding 1200 pounds of lime to a quarter acre. Another 250 pounds will go down next weekend of lime but it is improving. The sphagnum swamp is at the end of both of these pictures the third picture is both lanes in the winter.

 

[Tree Spud]

Are those fruit trees you have caged in the plot? Is it safe to spray Cleth by apple trees?

I have sprayed grasses around all of my apple trees with no issues.

 

[birdog]

Reviving an old thread (cause I gotta buy some liquid AMS and cannot find it nearby).

Nobody ever answered your question above.....and I dont think I am the guy to do it either as different brands may require different amounts. I've just read about Synergy as a brand of AMS on a farm forum.....and a guy said he was using 1 quart for 100 gallons. I tried some granular AMS at one time.....and swore that off forever as I could not get the granular stuff to dissolve properly. Not sure if Tractor Supply carries a Liquid AMS as I cannot find it on their website? I do not have many other sources available. Anybody?? I'm going to spray one way or the other this afternoon.

I think I am going to spray Clethodim on my grasses today despite our drought. I have Some Nitro-Surf which is a non Ionic Surfacent....and I had thought the "Nitro" was a replacement for the need to put AMS in my tank. From reading the above.....evidently this is not so.

My turn to revive an old thread.

Foggy did you end up using this mix of 32oz per 100gal last year? If so how did it work? No offense to anyone here but the mix rate opinions on this site for ams are quite different.

 

[Foggy47]

My turn to revive an old thread.

Foggy did you end up using this mix of 32oz per 100gal last year? If so how did it work? No offense to anyone here but the mix rate opinions on this site for ams are quite different.

I do not remember what I used for the Nitrosurf.....that is a long time ago for me. I need to keep better notes of such things......but all my records are kept at my deer property. I do use Nirtro-surf.....and I also have some liquid AMS on the shelf.

 

[birdog]

I do not remember what I used for the Nitrosurf.....that is a long time ago for me. I need to keep better notes of such things......but all my records are kept at my deer property. I do use Nirtro-surf.....and I also have some liquid AMS on the shelf.

I will be spraying cleth on my plots next week. I have seen a varied mix ratio for ams. I think I will be going with 64oz of ams, 16oz of cleth and 26oz of crop oil with my 20gal per acre of water. Does 64oz of ams seem high to you?

 

[Brian662]

The liquid AMS I use is called Calvary + and I use it at 13 oz/acre.

 

[Foggy47]

I will be spraying cleth on my plots next week. I have seen a varied mix ratio for ams. I think I will be going with 64oz of ams, 16oz of cleth and 26oz of crop oil with my 20gal per acre of water. Does 64oz of ams seem high to you?

Not sure......I think you could find all the needed data on the label or go to Keystone Pest Solutions to get the needed info. I need to make a chart for these herbicides. It's always lots of confusion for me.