Boycott Dick's

[Bszweda]

driving is a privilege and the 2nd amendment is a right people need to learn the difference. The main purpose of the 2nd amendment I think trumps the need of scared kids. People want the govemerment to protect them, but what they are really doing is having the government control them.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Bszweda - I fully understand the difference between a right and a privilege. With any right - there comes responsibility. The issue here is safety of kids in school. I said nothing about abolishing the 2nd amendment - and I'm not for that. Filtering out confirmed mental cases from buying guns isn't PERFECT - but it would sure reduce the likelihood of frequent occurrences of mass school shootings, or shootings anywhere by mentally disturbed people. Will it eliminate ALL shootings ?? No.

What are the thoughts on the NRA member father who lost a son or daughter ( I don't remember which ) in a school shooting, and stood up at a podium in front of cameras and said he got rid of his AR after his child was killed. He said he couldn't own it anymore. Is he a communist ?? A non-patriot ?? A spineless wuss ?? What names will you call him ??

More and more NRA members are speaking out in favor of mental case screening and so are larger numbers of vets. And they say outwardly that they want the 2nd amendment intact. Saying you want mental case screenings doesn't mean you want the 2nd amendment eliminated. Mental screenings, metal detectors, and single entry points with cameras are prudent steps to cutting the numbers way down. Taking those steps doesn't even begin to make me feel like the government is trying to " take me over ". Taking reasonable steps doesn't mean selling out.

 

[Bill]

I agree with Jack. Seems these kids are being used as Pawns. I'm all in favor of metal detectors and armed security at the single point of entrance to schools. I would image most of the kids would be also. The brains behind the movement would want nothing to do with it. Their objective is to use this as another way to try and unarm America.

The NRA is just a target that's easily identified. I've read they donate less $ to political campaigns annually than planned parenthood. Speaking of PP. You could certainly get many of theses same kids to march in support of PP. Simple fact, whether you're Pro life or Pro choice, PP Has killed exponentially more children than all school shooters have combined. It's political, just like the weather is. The arguments of the left always lack Logic because there based on emotion. Take away everyone's constitutional right because a child may be harmed, yet allow thousands of children to die at the hand of a medical professional because Mom isnt ready for them. Where is the logic in that?

I'm also all in favor of restricting gun sales to mentally disturbed persons. But the definition of mentally disturbed needs to defined to a T and not be subjective to a government workers opinion.

 

[Catscratch]

The mental case screenings are tricky in my view. I know several vets who have some form of PTSD or depression. The fear is that anyone who has been diagnosed with depression, been called in for a domestic disturbance situation, in a bar-fight, or on any type of prescription mood altering meds will be put on the list. Where do you draw the line in the sand? What is the defintion of dangerous what is not (before the act has happened)? What is the difference between a Vietnam vet who is on depression meds and the 16yr old kid who is on the same meds, and neither has been convicted of a violent crime... I know at least one side affect will be; the vet who needs antidepressants will not go to the doctor out of fear of having his old service pistol taken away. Some people who need help will purposely not look for it.

Overall I personal think being at school is a very low risk scenario, compared to being at home or on the roads for most kids. To change these attacks, schools need to find a way to stop weapons from entering the doors (and/or) make it known that the building is not a soft target.

 

[Peplin Creek]

The mental case screenings are tricky in my view. I know several vets who have some form of PTSD or depression. The fear is that anyone who has been diagnosed with depression, been called in for a domestic disturbance situation, in a bar-fight, or on any type of prescription mood altering meds will be put on the list. Where do you draw the line in the sand? What is the defintion of dangerous what is not (before the act has happened)? What is the difference between a Vietnam vet who is on depression meds and the 16yr old kid who is on the same meds, and neither has been convicted of a violent crime... I know at least one side affect will be; the vet who needs antidepressants will not go to the doctor out of fear of having his old service pistol taken away. Some people who need help will purposely not look for it.

Overall I personal think being at school is a very low risk scenario, compared to being at home or on the roads for most kids. To change these attacks, schools need to find a way to stop weapons from entering the doors (and/or) make it known that the building is not a soft target.

I would like something to be done simply because this isn’t just about schools and kids, it just happened to be this last time. Before that, it was a concert in Vegas. Before that it was malls, convention centers. Take away one target, they’ll find another.

but you’re 100% right on this. People who need help won’t get it out of fear they’ll be put on a list or have their guns taken away. Which is a problem.

Schools do need to be updated to help protect students better and that should be done without question. As far as gun laws go. I don’t know that anyone truly has a good solution that doesn’t upset someone or some group.

 

[Catscratch]

I would like something to be done simply because this isn’t just about schools and kids, it just happened to be this last time. Before that, it was a concert in Vegas. Before that it was malls, convention centers. Take away one target, they’ll find another.

but you’re 100% right on this. People who need help won’t get it out of fear they’ll be put on a list or have their guns taken away. Which is a problem.

Schools do need to be updated to help protect students better and that should be done without question. As far as gun laws go. I don’t know that anyone truly has a good solution that doesn’t upset someone or some group.

Agreed 100% that if you protect schools the targets will likely shift to something else. The thing about schools is it's required that kids receive some sort of education and many do not have a choice in attending public buildings. This should be an absolutely safe place to be as it's basically required of the general population. Going to the mall, a concert, a sporting event, etc. is a choice. With that said our country/citizens should not be held hostage due to fear of public events and crazy people. Take away guns and they will find other means/tools, subject restrictions on mental health... and help won't be sought, ban one gun and there are a hundred more that function exactly the same way.

The difference between "rights" and "privileges" is huge, but I see many examples in today's world where people don't recognize the difference between the two and actually value the lessor of the two more. Freedom isn't free or easy, it certainly isn't safe (any man with free will has the ability to be dangerous), and it is certainly worth it. I wish it was more recognized and valued in this time period.

 

[Telemark]

One of the easiest and most effective policies would be to require all gun owners to lock up their guns when they're not home.

If most gun crime is committed with stolen guns, then the obvious next step is to prevent guns from being stolen.

The great thing about this is that it doesn't interfere with anyone's rights.

 

[Northbound]

One of the easiest and most effective policies would be to require all gun owners to lock up their guns when they're not home.

If most gun crime is committed with stolen guns, then the obvious next step is to prevent guns from being stolen.

The great thing about this is that it doesn't interfere with anyone's rights.

That very much affects a law abiding citizens right to protect themselves. Can't expect a person to be able to go unlock their gun in event of home intrusion. I've never locked up a gun, and have zero plans to. In fact there's a 1022 leaned up against my porch for yard varmint. The ups driver uses it as a paper weight for light packages.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

One last time guys ........ I'm NOT in favor of doing away with the 2nd amendment. The far left who may want that - I disagree with. I truly believe that most folks of any political tag want metal detectors, 1 point entries, and armed guards. I'd be in favor of screening out mental cases - but I don't profess to know the answer to how the guidelines would be set up. I get the Viet Nam vet, or Afghan or Iraq vets who have PTSD, and how you account for them.

Any steps that are agreed to will never prevent shootings 100%. But should society throw in the towel and say no improvement is worth the effort ?? I'd bet metal detectors, single point entries with cameras - and I'll go a step further - double steel doors, would stop 95% or better of school shootings. With double doors, if a person steps inside the 1st door, and they have to go through a metal detector - and it picks up a possible weapon, BOTH doors automatically lock and they are trapped between those doors until an armed guard can get there. Easy.

Bill - I can't disagree with abortions killing large numbers of babies. I'm not in favor of abortion either. I have fine sons that I thank God for - can't imagine life without them in it. The other stuff PP does as far as education about sexual topics, disease prevention, helping with adoption or foster parenting I have no problem with.

 

[Telemark]

That very much affects a law abiding citizens right to protect themselves. Can't expect a person to be able to go unlock their gun in event of home intrusion. I've never locked up a gun, and have zero plans to. In fact there's a 1022 leaned up against my porch for yard varmint. The ups driver uses it as a paper weight for light packages.

I don't think you read what I wrote. I said lock them up when you're not home.

I hope you never have children in your house. A friend's son shot himself in the face because her husband left guns laying around.

 

[Bill]

Any steps that are agreed to will never prevent shootings 100%. But should society throw in the towel and say no improvement is worth the effort ?? I'd bet metal detectors, single point entries with cameras - and I'll go a step further - double steel doors, would stop 95% or better of school shootings. With double doors, if a person steps inside the 1st door, and they have to go through a metal detector - and it picks up a possible weapon, BOTH doors automatically lock and they are trapped between those doors until an armed guard can get there. Easy.

^^^that right there would make school shootings non existent. End of problem and no law abiding citizen is inconvenienced.

 

[yoderjac]

Back to my main points .............. What about banning sales to confirmed mental cases and putting metal detectors & cameras in schools with 1 entry point ?? All other doors locked. Could a person slip through the " mental case " cracks ?? I suppose so. But wouldn't it cut down on the NUMBERS of school shootings & victims ??

I just don't see such actions as taking away my right to own firearms.

Extreme, foaming-at-the-mouth, hate-filled rhetoric will not solve problems of any sort. It only garners more of the same. This goes for either side.

I don't see much new there. We already have restrictions on classes of folks who cannot legally buy firearms. The problem becomes enforcement. How are the records provided and checked? We still have cases of domestic violence issues in the military not making it into the databases? Who decides what a confirmed mental case is? If I get depressed when a parent or child dies and I seek psychological counseling to deal with it, does that get reported? Who decides? How does this fit with HIPA? Does the threat of losing firearms which may make a mentally ill person fill safe deter them from seeking treatment in the first place?

Many schools have metal detectors today with 1 entry point and all other doors locked from the outside. There is nothing that prevents a school district from assessing the threat along with the cost and deciding to implement these kinds of physical controls.

From my perspective, when the decisions are made at the state and local level, there is minimal if any threat to the second amendment. The more the federal government is involved in the restrictions, the more threat there is to second amendment rights.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

One last time guys ........ I'm NOT in favor of doing away with the 2nd amendment. The far left who may want that - I disagree with. I truly believe that most folks of any political tag want metal detectors, 1 point entries, and armed guards. I'd be in favor of screening out mental cases - but I don't profess to know the answer to how the guidelines would be set up. I get the Viet Nam vet, or Afghan or Iraq vets who have PTSD, and how you account for them.

Any steps that are agreed to will never prevent shootings 100%. But should society throw in the towel and say no improvement is worth the effort ?? I'd bet metal detectors, single point entries with cameras - and I'll go a step further - double steel doors, would stop 95% or better of school shootings. With double doors, if a person steps inside the 1st door, and they have to go through a metal detector - and it picks up a possible weapon, BOTH doors automatically lock and they are trapped between those doors until an armed guard can get there. Easy.

So instead of some kids dying in a school shooting, many more die in a school fire. ....Well, of course we would have alarmed fire exits... Every exit is a potential entry point.

If the answers were easy and one size fit all, they would already be in place. They are not.

 

[gwm]

In my opinion, for people to come together and make changes that can be agreed upon, by both sides, the narrative around guns need to change. If it doesn't the only thing being done is more walls between both sides.

The Parkland shooter was recommended to be forcibly committed but wasn't. The sheriff's department was called 37x but did nothing. The deputy didn't go inside to confront the shooter. The FBI admitted not doing anything after receiving two phone calls. Yet, who gets blamed, the NRA and gun owners. At that point you lost me.

 

[Telemark]

In my opinion, for people to come together and make changes that can be agreed upon, by both sides, the narrative around guns need to change. If it doesn't the only thing being done is more walls between both sides.

The Parkland shooter was recommended to be forcibly committed but wasn't. The sheriff's department was called 37x but did nothing. The deputy didn't go inside to confront the shooter. The FBI admitted not doing anything after receiving two phone calls. Yet, who gets blamed, the NRA and gun owners. At that point you lost me.

It's bonkers. There is no way to have a reasonable discussion when the media is so dishonest. Both sides feel their back is against the wall. I'm staunchly pro-gun, and generally pro-freedom. Until we have a reasonable discussion about the issues, I generally support the status quo. I don't want schools to resemble prisons, and I don't want law-abiding citizens to lose their rights. We need to keep guns out of criminals' hands. But how? Ban psychos from buying guns is an obvious step, but how do people get put on the psycho list? Canada has such a system, and it's way too easy to get your guns taken away. We have such a system, but the Parkland psycho managed to get guns.

 

[Smallplot]

Ok here is the low down. Anyone who has ever purchased a firearm thru an FFL knows there are questions about mental health which will disqualify one from access to said firearm. Most of the debate about the shooters not being able to get firearms but passing background checks comes from governmental offices not following thru with providing notification to those who can put a stop to it.
Next laws are written and brought up with such vague but massive warning that easily other firearms could fall within the grasp and poof there goes more. Also most gun laws being thrown out also include a database of owners. Sorry this is not about the legal owners.

Schools can’t just create one way in because there are so many regulations already in place about ingress and egress from fires or other safety concerns that this is almost impossible. So which are we going to do? A majority of schools are addressing this but there are schools that are dragging their feet and will not make commitments to provide safer alternatives. Parents don’t usually have any idea of what a school is doing or not doing because a lot is addressed through faculty and not visible to the public for a reason.

And lastly with a march like this it was funded by someone other than the children themselves. High school and lower are not coming up with the money for transportation and making the arraignments necessary for such an event. Besides we are being told that people under 21 are not mature enough to own firearms but someone not old enough to vote is mature enough to decide what decisions lawmakers need to make to actually make A difference. Shmh.

There is only one thing that will stop from having huge numbers of deaths and that is a law abiding man or woman with the balls to face these disturbed individuals period. No law will ever have any effect like a good guy with a gun willing to step up. Pssst, why have we heard crickets about the Sheriff’s office with three officers never there who choose not to address the situation leading to such a casualty loss. Oh yea I forgot, they thought the shots were coming from outside. Come on.
Like it or not there is the second amendment and a fundamental right involved which is pretty clear in wording with shall not be infringed. While everything is being done to erase history what I learned. Is not being erased from my brain. There are reasons our forefathers added that language to the constitution. Bottom line find a fix that does not circumvent due process nor take away the rights of lawful citizens. At one time crazy people were institutionalized but they were found to have rights which were taken above the safety of others and released to the streets leading us to what we have today. Not saying it was a right or wrong decision back then but there are repercussions which now face lawful gun owners.


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[H20fwler]

The kids marching and speaking out were absolutely being used as pawns by the fake news MSM and anti-gun groups. I am sure some of the kids actually believe in what they are protesting, I also believe they don't really have a concept of what the Second Amendment really is.
I definitely feel bad for the kids that were exposed to shootings but that doesn't mean I'm ever going to take political advice from a High School student...I take political advice from politicians with a grain of salt. I'm a veteran and an NRA member and these kids have no idea what the NRA stands for.
With all the far left socialist indoctrination going on in schools and colleges these days it really makes one worry what the future holds.

 

[Catscratch]

Adults related to this situation should see it for what it is and treat it appropriately. Kids should learn to find their place in this world. If they feel strongly about something then a protest isn't out of the question. They should however be instructed that missing school or work has consequences, and they should do this sort of thing on their own time and their own dime. I don't know any employers that are ok with their workforce walking out to stage protests in DC. You take vacation for that sort of thing.

As far as the adults go, effort needs to be taken to teach the kids how to present themselves appropriately (by adults)... but their message isn't there to dictate what the adults do. It's simply good practice for when they are old enough to have the right for their voice to be heard. When they are old enough to vote or fight for the country they can have their say taken seriously. There is a reason there is a voting age, an age of consent, a drinking age, a minimum military age, etc. Hell, our presidency has a minimum age requirement.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Yoder - ( Post #113 ) I've been in the construction business for over 37 years, and have worked on many schools projects, college campuses, factories, malls, etc. Exits from a building have "panic hardware" to allow egress from a building - but not entry. So a school can have many fire exits that only open from the inside via the panic hardware. Anyone outside the school ( or factory, or church, or mall, or dorm ) cannot enter locked exit doors. People inside CAN EXIT through them, however. In the event of a fire, bail out those doors. That set-up is standard building code.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Bill ( post #111 ) - The double steel door set-up isn't rocket science. But like you said, it would knock the piss out of school shootings. Not a big deal to accomplish it either, from a construction standpoint.