Bo’s Hideway. Central Va

[chbarnha]

Went to the hideaway this morning to check some things out. The summer release blend is doing well in the front plot but the back main plot looked awful. Over run with dog fennel and assorted other weeds. I walked the plot and only saw some of the blend coming up in a few places but nothing I wanted to let go until fall. So I elected to bushhog it and see if I can get the semi-established clover to take off. There are good stands of clover in several parts of this plot and a sparse amount in other areas. I guess we will see what happens.

So my question is should I keep the back plot mowed throughout the summer to try and keep competition down with the clover? I had Initially planned to use the fall release blend in this plot in the fall, which is rye oats and wheat with some other stuff mixed in. Should I still go that route or try to just establish a clover plot by broadcasting their clover release in it in the fall?


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[yoderjac]

Went to the hideaway this morning to check some things out. The summer release blend is doing well in the front plot but the back main plot looked awful. Over run with dog fennel and assorted other weeds. I walked the plot and only saw some of the blend coming up in a few places but nothing I wanted to let go until fall. So I elected to bushhog it and see if I can get the semi-established clover to take off. There are good stands of clover in several parts of this plot and a sparse amount in other areas. I guess we will see what happens.

So my question is should I keep the back plot mowed throughout the summer to try and keep competition down with the clover? I had Initially planned to use the fall release blend in this plot in the fall, which is rye oats and wheat with some other stuff mixed in. Should I still go that route or try to just establish a clover plot by broadcasting their clover release in it in the fall?


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If you want a perennial clover plot, I would spray and surface broadcast WR at 100 lbs/ac and Durana at 10 lbs/ac in our area. Next spring, each time the WR gets between 12" and 18" mow it back to 6" to release the Durana slowly. From then on, don't worry about weeds, let 'em grow unless you have a lot of some specific noxious weed taking over. If you have a healthy mix of weeds just let them grow all summer. They will help shade the clover and many are great deer food. After established, I just mow once in the fall right before the season when cool nights and more regular rain favor the clover. It will bounce back and be a great food source.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[chbarnha]

If you want a perennial clover plot, I would spray and surface broadcast WR at 100 lbs/ac and Durana at 10 lbs/ac in our area. Next spring, each time the WR gets between 12" and 18" mow it back to 6" to release the Durana slowly. From then on, don't worry about weeds, let 'em grow unless you have a lot of some specific noxious weed taking over. If you have a healthy mix of weeds just let them grow all summer. They will help shade the clover and many are great deer food. After established, I just mow once in the fall right before the season when cool nights and more regular rain favor the clover. It will bounce back and be a great food source.

Thanks,

Jack

Thanks for always answering Jack, that’s what I was kinda thinking. Keep it cut through the summer and let the clover do what it can, then overseed with rye. I think that is the route I’m going to try. Question, would you just go straight WR or would you try a blend with wheat and oats mixed in as well?


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[yoderjac]

Thanks for always answering Jack, that’s what I was kinda thinking. Keep it cut through the summer and let the clover do what it can, then overseed with rye. I think that is the route I’m going to try. Question, would you just go straight WR or would you try a blend with wheat and oats mixed in as well?


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Mowing during the summer won't help the clover. It does nothing to control grasses. It can be used to manage broadleaf weeds, but many broadleaf weeds as beneficial to deer.

As for planting in the fall, I'm operating on a larger scale and I buy 50 lb bags of seed. WR is my preferred nurse crop for clover. Here is why. My deer don't show any significant preference between cereal grains. WR is less germinates better when surface broadcast than WW or Oats. Oats don't overwinter so they don't provide the early spring food that WW and WR do. WR has some chemical properties that reduces germination rates of weed seeds. Since I mow to release clover in the first spring after planting, the height of WR compared to WW is not an issue. While all cereal grains have some good soil building properties, WR seems to have the most. WR will perform well with low pH (not your problem on the coast) and with infertile soil.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[chbarnha]

Mowing during the summer won't help the clover. It does nothing to control grasses. It can be used to manage broadleaf weeds, but many broadleaf weeds as beneficial to deer.

As for planting in the fall, I'm operating on a larger scale and I buy 50 lb bags of seed. WR is my preferred nurse crop for clover. Here is why. My deer don't show any significant preference between cereal grains. WR is less germinates better when surface broadcast than WW or Oats. Oats don't overwinter so they don't provide the early spring food that WW and WR do. WR has some chemical properties that reduces germination rates of weed seeds. Since I mow to release clover in the first spring after planting, the height of WR compared to WW is not an issue. While all cereal grains have some good soil building properties, WR seems to have the most. WR will perform well with low pH (not your problem on the coast) and with infertile soil.

Thanks,

Jack

Thanks for all the valuable info. I will stick with winter rye. This year I had a good WR crop, that grew to 4 even 5ft in places in this plot. When mowing it at the heights you recommended will it continue to grow or will that essentially kill the rye after the first mowing. Sorry for all the questions.


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[chbarnha]

My main weed in these plot is the dog fennel which is everywhere.


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[Bowsnbucks]

Having said that, we do plant for the summer stress period. Lately I've been using a mix of buckwheat and sunn hemp. Both like warm soils, and I don't plant till late May

I just checked out this thread. NICE PLACE you have going there!!!! It's gonna be a fun time improving it to how you want it. Have fun with your parents in that process.

I agree with Jack on the buckwheat for a summer crop. We plant BW most years in late May after the soil warms enough. 4 good things with BW - blossoms for pollinators, greens that our deer hammer, and BW helps to keep weeds down - if planted thick enough, and when it decays after mowing or rolling it down, it adds organic material (OM) to the soil. We LOVE buckwheat at our camp.

Yoderjac knows your soils better because he's in Va. too. Jack would know better the seeding rate for BW in your soils. Jack???????

 

[yoderjac]

I just checked out this thread. NICE PLACE you have going there!!!! It's gonna be a fun time improving it to how you want it. Have fun with your parents in that process.

I agree with Jack on the buckwheat for a summer crop. We plant BW most years in late May after the soil warms enough. 4 good things with BW - blossoms for pollinators, greens that our deer hammer, and BW helps to keep weeds down - if planted thick enough, and when it decays after mowing or rolling it down, it adds organic material (OM) to the soil. We LOVE buckwheat at our camp.

Yoderjac knows your soils better because he's in Va. too. Jack would know better the seeding rate for BW in your soils. Jack???????

Actually, his soils and mine are quite different. He is in the tidewater region, I believe. He has high pH. I'm more in the piedmont with low pH and heavy clay. Our climate is similar for the most part. VA goes from mountain land to cost line with a lot in between.

 

[chbarnha]

Actually, his soils and mine are quite different. He is in the tidewater region, I believe. He has high pH. I'm more in the piedmont with low pH and heavy clay. Our climate is similar for the most part. VA goes from mountain land to cost line with a lot in between.

I have very heavy clay soils, I require an alternative septic system which actually I just setup for the engineer to come out and design the system m. July 12th and then hopefully figure out house plans and get started.


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[chbarnha]

Actually, his soils and mine are quite different. He is in the tidewater region, I believe. He has high pH. I'm more in the piedmont with low pH and heavy clay. Our climate is similar for the most part. VA goes from mountain land to cost line with a lot in between.

Is it too late to throw buckwheat out? If not I may go pick some up and get it down this weekend.


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[yoderjac]

I have very heavy clay soils, I require an alternative septic system which actually I just setup for the engineer to come out and design the system m. July 12th and then hopefully figure out house plans and get started.


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But as I recall your pH problem is high pH not low pH, correct?

 

[yoderjac]

Is it too late to throw buckwheat out? If not I may go pick some up and get it down this weekend.


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Nope, I just planting my last weekend. If you are planting pure buckwheat, I'd shoot for 40 to 50 lbs/ac.

 

[yoderjac]

Buckwheat provides 60 to 90 days of food for deer and turkey love the seed. It will germinate in pretty cold soils, but the optimal soil temp (not air temp) is 80 degrees for buckwheat. The limitation on planting date here is generally rain. As long as you get a couple good rains after planting, you will be fine. After the 4th of July, we often get dry periods. I like to get mine in from late may through about the middle of June to account for weather issues.

 

[chbarnha]

Nope, I just planting my last weekend. If you are planting pure buckwheat, I'd shoot for 40 to 50 lbs/ac.

No my ph is a little low not bad though.


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[yoderjac]

No my ph is a little low not bad though.


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Sorry, I might have your place confused with another where they guy said he had a pH over 7.

 

[chbarnha]

This was last year on both the front and back, they should have improved some, as I spread the recommended amounts of lime. I neglected to send off a new sample this year but probably will in the fall or before spring next year.


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[yoderjac]

This was last year on both the front and back, they should have improved some, as I spread the recommended amounts of lime. I neglected to send off a new sample this year but probably will in the fall or before spring next year.


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The first thing I'd recommend is using VT for your soil testing. They take much more into account. You can provide you soil type and history information for each field. It is a good starting point for learning about soils. Because we are organized as an LLC, there is no charge for the testing except for OM tests.

Having said that, in the end, it doesn't matter much and the most applicable information is the lime recommendations. Follow those. Beyond that, the fertilizer recommendations don't mean much. They are focused on farmers that plant monocultures, harvest, and are need high yield. We don't need any of that for food plots. I have not applied commercial fertilizer in many years. The VT soil reports are helpful when learning about soils as they report base saturation and such.

I'm still in learning mode when it comes to soil science, but there are lot of guys with a good soil science background on the forum.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Actually, his soils and mine are quite different. He is in the tidewater region, I believe. He has high pH. I'm more in the piedmont with low pH and heavy clay. Our climate is similar for the most part. VA goes from mountain land to cost line with a lot in between.

I thought you guys were both from the same general area of Va.

 

[yoderjac]

I thought you guys were both from the same general area of Va.

I think I had his place confused with someone over in the TIdewater region that reported pH issues over 7. As I get older, it is harder and harder to keep thing straight.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Is it too late to throw buckwheat out? If not I may go pick some up and get it down this weekend.

If you have turkeys there at your place, you might want to cover your buckwheat seed with cultipacker or discing it in. If the turkeys find the BW seed, they'll eat it ALL. Been there, and the turkeys found all of ours. Had to re-plant other things a couple years. Just a heads-up.