BenA
5 year old buck +
That's not mine. But, I've had some plots with that much pressure. it shows how much pressure can be put on food plots. It's a good idea to put exclusion cages on plots to see what the actual usage is.
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Baiting, I know this has been discussed and discussed this is just my rant....LOL
- Thread starter Turkey Creek
- Start date
Michigan total deer harvest has fallen from 300,000 to 220,000 over the past five years. Anyone have a clue the reason for this. Are there that much fewer hunters where they arent killing as many deer, fewer deer - or a combination of both?
Something else I have noticed among my era of hunters in my area. About half of them are now quality deer hunters. Like me, up until ten or fifteen years ago, we killed all the law would allow - five. Now, many of us kill one or none. I havent killed a doe in 8 years. Neither has my wife. I am fairly sure I have killed over 100 does in my life, but none in the last 8 years. Of my four hunting grand daughters, they killed one doe this year And I fully expect all of them but one to quit hunting when they move out of the house. They all have lifetime hunting licenses but will be used very little after they are 18 years old.
Do more deer need to be killed in Michigan - or is the loss of hunter numbers concerning strictly because of loss of hunters and not the herd control benefits they provide?
I did a little research to answer my own questions. Michigan does have a problem. Hunter numbers have declined by over 33%. Deer numbers are increasing. 58,000 deer car collisions. 1700 people injured. Many folks on this forum forget that dept of natural resources have the responsibility to manage population numbers - including deer populations that get too high. That means reducing hunting restrictions - making it easier to kill deer. Exactly how our g&f department views baiting - a tool to control deer populations.
Michigan has a deer overpopulation problem. I doubt allowing baiting has much effect on the population - but it is something to try. The deer harvest in the early 2000’s when almost no one baited in our state was 194,000. Now when almost everyone baits - we might hit 190,000 this year - almost identical.
Derek Reese 29
5 year old buck +
I took a college course near Traverse City after the spring semester one year. When we got there the professor running the class joked that we would all be issued rifles and required to shoot 3 deer while we were there. I knew he was joking as it was May, but some of my more urban-type classmates were appalled. Then the guy turned around and said the other option is you can hit them with your car…that was almost 20’years ago…
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
This Michigan case is interesting admission of some factors. One is the state admitting/acknowledging that bait actually makes it easier to kill deer. That’s obvious to many but also debated by some. The state basically is saying it with bold letters.
Additionally it’s an indictment on the future of hunting. If you have to dangle a carrot of making it easier to kill something, you aren’t exactly attracting a bright future. There’s no confusion that staring a bright yellow pile or a giant aluminum trough is a motivator to get outside. It’s more the implication that you don’t have to put in as much effort to get a result angle.
For most of us growing up hunting deer was hard. Deer were a lot more scarce in a lot of places. Management was in its infancy. But we stuck with it cause we genuinely loved being outdoors and the challenge. We also were the group that spurred a management revolution that made deer hunting and quality unimaginable to when we first started. Todays generation is “hey I know you don’t really want to do this but we will let you dump a pickup load of corn in front of your box stand so you only occasionally have to look up from instagram to kill one and you can get back to vaping and making tic toks shortly.”
I’m sure most here are saying not my kid blah blah. No I get that. Chances are if their dad is on this forum they are not those kids. Little different pool here than average.
Additionally it’s an indictment on the future of hunting. If you have to dangle a carrot of making it easier to kill something, you aren’t exactly attracting a bright future. There’s no confusion that staring a bright yellow pile or a giant aluminum trough is a motivator to get outside. It’s more the implication that you don’t have to put in as much effort to get a result angle.
For most of us growing up hunting deer was hard. Deer were a lot more scarce in a lot of places. Management was in its infancy. But we stuck with it cause we genuinely loved being outdoors and the challenge. We also were the group that spurred a management revolution that made deer hunting and quality unimaginable to when we first started. Todays generation is “hey I know you don’t really want to do this but we will let you dump a pickup load of corn in front of your box stand so you only occasionally have to look up from instagram to kill one and you can get back to vaping and making tic toks shortly.”
I’m sure most here are saying not my kid blah blah. No I get that. Chances are if their dad is on this forum they are not those kids. Little different pool here than average.
Derek Reese 29
5 year old buck +
love your "blah blah" quote...i have a kid that I mentor and when he was about 15 he missed 2 opportunities at 2 different bucks inside 20 yards on the SAME SIT on the archery opener one year because he was sitting below me in a ladder stand looking at his phone...after the second buck darted away I took the phone and put it in my backpack...to note there was no corn in that spot...but about 100 lbs/sq ft of acorns from 3 huge white oaks...
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
I didn’t mean that disrespectfully. I truly think most of us know how to raise in kid in the outdoors, you probably wouldn’t be wasting your time on a management forum if you didn’t care and in turn teach that respect to the next generation.
BenA
5 year old buck +
Unfortunately, stands overlooking food plots have had the same effect. Kids (or adults) can just look up periodically from their phones, scan the plot, and dive right back into their phone. I think that has more to do with the drawing power of the phone for their attention than anything else though. When I'm hunting, I can barely look at my phone because I'm too scared I'm going to miss seeing some animal doing something cool.
Mortenson
5 year old buck +
Chris was on his own again this past fall as a 13 yr old. He has orders to use his phone only for texting me or taking pictures of his hunt. He's so enthused to be out there that I don't even worry about the temptation of the phone. Here's a screenshot of his text to me this year. He was hunting near a plot, but also overlooking 20 acres of field with multiple edges and 2 fingers where deer funnel, so he wasn't just staring at a plot. The buck he shot was not in the plot.
I have five grand daughters, four of them hunting. Both their dads are serious hunters and brought up before bait and big deer. All my grand daughters are extremely busy with all sorts of school related activities. This stuff is year round now - much more intensive than when my kids grew up. There is very little time for hunting between activities.
The dads want to make it exciting for the kids. If they only get to hunt three or four days a year - you do what you can do to increase to odds. Two of my grand daughters had killed bigger deer by the time they were twelve than I had by the time I was sixty - and not over bait.
Because of their early success, they pass a lot of deer. I doubt between the four they have killed a total of 6 does between them. Most of the people I know, myself included - are not helping manage deer numbers at all. I have killed one deer in six years - a buck. My wife has not killed a deer in 8 years. No adult that hunts our place has killed a doe in I dont know when.
This trophy/quality deer management philosophy is horrible for the management of the state’s deer herd in many cases. There is a 5,000 acre DMAP lease not far from me where the biologist told them they needed to kill 125 does. By the time the last 3 days of season rolled around, they had not killed one - all still looking for that wall hanger.
300,000 deer killed in Michigan by 600,000 hunters and the deer population is exploding? They are choosing not to shoot them.
The dads want to make it exciting for the kids. If they only get to hunt three or four days a year - you do what you can do to increase to odds. Two of my grand daughters had killed bigger deer by the time they were twelve than I had by the time I was sixty - and not over bait.
Because of their early success, they pass a lot of deer. I doubt between the four they have killed a total of 6 does between them. Most of the people I know, myself included - are not helping manage deer numbers at all. I have killed one deer in six years - a buck. My wife has not killed a deer in 8 years. No adult that hunts our place has killed a doe in I dont know when.
This trophy/quality deer management philosophy is horrible for the management of the state’s deer herd in many cases. There is a 5,000 acre DMAP lease not far from me where the biologist told them they needed to kill 125 does. By the time the last 3 days of season rolled around, they had not killed one - all still looking for that wall hanger.
300,000 deer killed in Michigan by 600,000 hunters and the deer population is exploding? They are choosing not to shoot them.
I failed with mine- youth season was too easy, other things were more fun to them and while I can blame NY for making them wait until their teen years- I should've taken them out of state and hid their phones. It guts me to think i have two teens, one is even a son, and I struggle to get anytime with them and know it wont be hunting in the rarity it does happen.
Not saying life/hunting has to be hard....but anything easy is corrosive to appreciation and therefore longevity.
Double Creek
5 year old buck +
You’re not alone. That is an issue across the country. My 3 boys do like to hunt and fish, but it’s a fraction of what I did as a kid/young adult. I went every weekend from Oct 1st through January 31st. Mine may go 4-5 days a season. They will go fishing as often as I’ll take them offshore, so we spend more time doing that than hunting. But quality offshore days are limited, so it’s not something we’re doing every weekend.
Kids have many more options to spend their time these days than most of us did.
And that not being able to hunt until 12+ in some states is a sure fire way to lose their interest. That needs changing.
I believe there are a lot more problems than making it too easy. When I firsts started hunting, it was in Minnesota. There was a one weekend deer season in southern mn. It didnt matter. We were pheasant hunting, duck hunting, squirrel hunting, and rabbit hunting.
Now, in AR. We have no huntable population of quail or rabbits. If you take a kid duck hunting on public ground, you will probably ruin them from every hunting again due to a lack of ducks and over abundance of dip shits. You might hear a turkey while hunting in AR. That leaves squirrels and deer.
Deer hunting in many places can be BORING. Your kid is going to go a couple times and not see one and tell you they dont want to go again because it is so boring - so you tell them - ok, bring your ipad.
Land access is horrible compared to what it was when even my kids were growing up. Getting started hunting and fishing now is nothing like it was when my kids were growing up
Now, in AR. We have no huntable population of quail or rabbits. If you take a kid duck hunting on public ground, you will probably ruin them from every hunting again due to a lack of ducks and over abundance of dip shits. You might hear a turkey while hunting in AR. That leaves squirrels and deer.
Deer hunting in many places can be BORING. Your kid is going to go a couple times and not see one and tell you they dont want to go again because it is so boring - so you tell them - ok, bring your ipad.
Land access is horrible compared to what it was when even my kids were growing up. Getting started hunting and fishing now is nothing like it was when my kids were growing up
BenA
5 year old buck +
At the risk of starting this all over, I wanted to share what I just sent to the commissions for the two states where I am. I know this may come off as opposite of what I've posted on this thread. I know I am talking out of both sides of my mouth. While I am against baiting, I will still do it when I have to. I rarely bait anymore. I put out 2 sacks of rice bran last season just for pics and to see what would use it.
"I urge the commission to listen to the biologists and the mountains of evidence pointing out the harmfulness of baiting locations. These have been proven time and time again to be strong vectors in transmitting diseases to both game and non-game animals. Please do not continue to put the wildlife of this state at risk. Do not continue to ignore your biologists just to satisfy a vocal group of people who are not trained and knowledgeable in these matters."
"I urge the commission to listen to the biologists and the mountains of evidence pointing out the harmfulness of baiting locations. These have been proven time and time again to be strong vectors in transmitting diseases to both game and non-game animals. Please do not continue to put the wildlife of this state at risk. Do not continue to ignore your biologists just to satisfy a vocal group of people who are not trained and knowledgeable in these matters."
I have to admit, I was surprised when KY allowed spin feeders in cwd zones. I am pretty sure LA banned all baiting in their cwd zone - which also surprised me.
This is correct including supplemental feeding
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Well. I appreciate his frankness and it aligns with my thoughts of why they still have it.
1. Don’t limit hunting. We need more hunters.
2. There are too many deer. We need to harvest more.
