Bad Shot

[yoderjac]

Since you are a instructor of cervidae anatomy let’s have a closed book quiz.

1. How many ribs does a whitetail have?

2. What is the lowest number rib where you will locate the diaphragm?

3. Will that be dorsal or ventral?

4. What structure related to digestion that humans have a whitetail does not?

5. What structure on the thoracic vertebrae does a whitetail have a lot of where a human does not?

7. What structure is well developed in the whitetail that allow single pneumothorax to be minimal in effect?

8. Other than penetration…….which you claim is not important……….what does a sharp broad head minimize in clotting of bleeding?

9. What ganglion lies medial to the scapula?

10. What bone in the shoulder does a human have a whitetail does not?

11. Why?

Answers will be posted in a few.

Thanks

John

It's hunting season here and I spent the day butchering. Don't have time for games. The only thing I need to clarify here is that I don't recall saying penetration is not important. I may have said that penetration is not an issue for me on some thread, but I never said it is unimportant (that I can recall, and if I did, I misspoke). Penetration is important. A complete pass-through shot, especially from an elevated angle, provides the best and most reliable blood trail. With my setup, and the size of my deer, penetration would only become a factor if I had a very poor shot selection choice.

 

[Angus 1895]

Okie doakie

 

[Catscratch]

Okie doakie

I want to know the answers. I'm guessing 13 ribs and missing the clavicle? Humans have a gall bladder and deer don't?

 

[Buckly]

Okie doakie

You need to know that Jack knows jack, or doesn’t know jack I can’t ever remember. LOL.

 

[Angus 1895]

1. 13
2. #7. So almost 40% of rib number is abdomen. The area of the ribs is actually more paunch IMO.This can fluctuate some with rumen fill.
3. Ventral…….aiming towards the heart area gives you even less space between lung and paunch
4. Gall bladder…….some say deer liver tastes the best……perhaps the reason.
5. Spinous process…….why a high hit with an arrow/bolt is seldom lethal…..it’s just loin
6. Mediasteinum….It’s very well developed and separates the lung fields.
8. Brachial plexus…..Why high shoulder hits can cause CNS collapse ….paralysis. Even without involving the spine
9. Clavicle
10. The spinous process of the vertebrae allow enough attachment to the thorax. The feline has a clavicle.

11 . The question regarding sharpness must have been removed.

Sharp cuts are less traumatic to the tissue. The vascular system without the trauma does not produce as much clotting factors that initiates the clotting of bleeding areas.

It is my observation that the public is given a way too generous picture of a true cervidae lung area.

The spinous process is not adequately explained…….and the mediastinum either.

My suggested point of aim on a broadside animal is the intersection of the center of the neck , and the front leg.
This allows the most wiggle room for error……….and why penetration is paramount to cutting diameter.

Good hunting.

 

[Angus 1895]

My recommendation especially small deer.

Elk bow I would hope for a quartering away. Then aim 4 that spot on opposite side

 

[ACCMan]

Jack, since you teach IBEP, do they still require you to travel all over the state to teach and will not reimburse you for even a meal? I taught for 4 years and hit burnout. I did it for the love of bowhunting but it started to turn me away from bowhunting so I bowed out. Hopefully Virginia gives you more support than SC did.

 

[yoderjac]

Jack, since you teach IBEP, do they still require you to travel all over the state to teach and will not reimburse you for even a meal? I taught for 4 years and hit burnout. I did it for the love of bowhunting but it started to turn me away from bowhunting so I bowed out. Hopefully Virginia gives you more support than SC did.

Not in my state. IBEP has been been combined into our state hunter education program. I was an IBEP instructor long before this and they never required travel. I taught locally at Fort Belvoir and then for Suburban Whitetail Management of Northern Virginia. It was all local. I did have to travel to take the instructor certification class. When IBEP was combined with the state hunter education program, all IBEP instructors were required to take additional training. This training was focused primarily at teaching technique along with all the legal and liability stuff all HE instructors have to take here. Since it has been combined with the Hunter Ed programs, I've been teaching the basic Hunter Ed class, the IBEP class, and a turkey hunting workshop. In our state, the Hunter Ed program keeps track of hours and miles and offers reimbursement for mileage regardless of what class or where you teach it. I've been having been donating any mileage reimbursement back to the program for years now. As I recall, before it was integrated into the state Hunter Education program, there was no mileage reimbursement, but no requirement to travel.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Angus 1895]

A few anatomy photos

 

[Angus 1895]

It’s interesting how much bigger the right dorsal lobe of lung is over the left.

 

[Angus 1895]

The attachment of the ventral diaphragm was between rib seven and six.

It is my observation that the tutorial “ cartoons/ illustrations “ used in lay anatomical “ education “ are not correct in their landmarks.

 

[yoderjac]

A few anatomy photos

Very cool pics! I'll bet you do necropsy studies as well.

 

[Catscratch]

Love it! Did you make those yourself?

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

That's really cool.

 

[Angus 1895]

Thanks

I made them myself.

He was wanting acorns/ chestnuts…….about 5 years early.

 

[Catscratch]

Thanks

I made them myself.

He was wanting acorns/ chestnuts…….about 5 years early.

I'm not sure where you live but it look beautiful! Plus appears you run cattle and possibly cowboy some. Very cool!

 

[Angus 1895]

I own mules.

Not what a proper buckaroo would ride!

But I been told the Number one rated working cow horse winner this year uses mules when it gets tough.

You wear horses out……….you just warm mules up!

I forgot to dissect and photograph the media Steinem.

Next time

Cat scratch……RU a Nugent fan?

 

[Angus 1895]

I should have included the photos of rumen/ abomasum/ reticulum/ omasum.

As you can see it has taken up entirely the left side…..

just a hint of spleen.

 

[Catscratch]

To answer your question; no. I took that username because I caught a bobcat by hand once. It scratched and bit the living hell out of me. I left a better blood trail than some of the deer I've killed. It kind of stuck so I use it for everything internet related.

I watched Nugent shoot Saddam Hussein with a bow during a concert. Kind of liked him quite a bit after that. That was decades ago. Haven't followed him much in the recent decade except for when he appears on the Simpsons.


Mules are cool. I've kind of wanted a mule or a donkey to put with the cattle during birthing season. I've heard they will stick with the herd and run off yotes. Don't know if that's fact (and it may depend on each animals personality as is often the case).

 

[Angus 1895]

Donkeys might be a sure win.

Mules tend to like horses.

I like early Ted ……..especially when meatloaf sang.

I don’t follow Ted anymore.

crazy way to get a nickname!

Thanks 4 sharing.