Bad Shot

Ben.MN/WI

5 year old buck +
THE REST OF THE STORY

I waited until this morning to go look for her. When I got to the impact sight where I had marked the arrow in the ground, I looked back at the stand. I saw a few small branches with no leaves that I did not see with the scope. At this point, I began thinking there may be a possible deflection. There was no blood trail at all, so I headed off in the direction the deer ran. When I got to the place where I last heard them running, I took out the FLIR and started scanning. Fortunately, this was a west facing slope and the sun had not yet heated anything up. I'd just walk 20 yard and scan. It was not long until I found her. Just as we all predicted, she had laid down and without being pushed, she died. Just glad I found her before the coyotes did.

Thanks for all the encouragement! I feel better after a positive outcome.

Thanks,

Jack
Nice work. How far did she go and did the arrow hit anything other than stomach/intestines?

How far away can you find a dead deer with the FLIR scanner? How does it do in areas with lots of trees/brush?
 

Catscratch

5 year old buck +
Pudelpointer. Highly recommend.View attachment 46491
I really wanted a Pudelpointer (or a Wiredhaired Pointing Griffon) after our dog died last summer. Ended up with a Labradoodle instead (dang Pudelpointers were hard to find locally). He doesn't seem to have any instinct for pointing but gets somewhat birdy. He is ok at finding shed antlers which is probably the biggest thing I wanted a dog to be able to do.

Congrats on finding the deer.
 

omicron1792

5 year old buck +
I really wanted a Pudelpointer (or a Wiredhaired Pointing Griffon) after our dog died last summer. Ended up with a Labradoodle instead (dang Pudelpointers were hard to find locally). He doesn't seem to have any instinct for pointing but gets somewhat birdy. He is ok at finding shed antlers which is probably the biggest thing I wanted a dog to be able to do.

Congrats on finding the deer.
Took me a year to find one but I know several breeders now If you ever want one. I stay in contact with a few. Only about 12 real breeders in the country.

She would point since day I got her. Now will point. Hold. Retrieve. And working on tracking. Have done practice tracking with her but this will be her first deer season.
 

4wanderingeyes

5 year old buck +
Nice work. How far did she go and did the arrow hit anything other than stomach/intestines?

How far away can you find a dead deer with the FLIR scanner? How does it do in areas with lots of trees/brush?


I used mine last season to locate my deer, shot in the morning, and looked in the evening. I saw it from about 50 yards away, in pure black night, it glowed like a light was on.
 

omicron1792

5 year old buck +
I really wanted a Pudelpointer (or a Wiredhaired Pointing Griffon) after our dog died last summer. Ended up with a Labradoodle instead (dang Pudelpointers were hard to find locally). He doesn't seem to have any instinct for pointing but gets somewhat birdy. He is ok at finding shed antlers which is probably the biggest thing I wanted a dog to be able to do.

Congrats on finding the deer.
You can teach a lab to hold and flush but I’ve never seen one point. Poodles are great hunting dogs so I bet you could make a great retriever at the least.

And I’m amazed at the labs every time I go to Arkansas duck hunting. Those are well trained dogs.
 

Catscratch

5 year old buck +
You can teach a lab to hold and flush but I’ve never seen one point. Poodles are great hunting dogs so I bet you could make a great retriever at the least.

And I’m amazed at the labs every time I go to Arkansas duck hunting. Those are well trained dogs.
My dad has a lab that points. Also an outstanding duck dog. He ran off one morning and was brought back by a group out of Arkansas that was duck hunting not far from the place. They asked who had trained it and what breedline it was as he was the best duck dog they had ever seen. Never been trained, just hunted a lot with my dad and got to know how to work. I've watched him swim past 4 dead ducks to get the cripple headed towards open water first. Then get the other 4 one at a time before they blew into the lake. Also retrieves doves without hesitation. Seems like most dogs don't like dove feathers in their mouth.
 

Catscratch

5 year old buck +
Took me a year to find one but I know several breeders now If you ever want one. I stay in contact with a few. Only about 12 real breeders in the country.

She would point since day I got her. Now will point. Hold. Retrieve. And working on tracking. Have done practice tracking with her but this will be her first deer season.
Thanks for the offer, but I think we have our hands full with the pup I've got. Although....
 

chummer

5 year old buck +
View attachment 46490
Took this buck 7-8 years ago. Couldn’t find it for the life of me. Found this 6 months later rabbit hunting. Happens.

My bird dog now can blood track. She is one of the few breeds that can point, retrieved, and track.
Is she a wired hair pointing griffon?
 

chummer

5 year old buck +
Is she a wired hair pointing griffon?
Nevermind, I see the answer. Similar to my pups. They know how to chill.

2d3b2cfc2d80e092950420e50d3688ac.jpg


Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
 

yoderjac

5 year old buck +
Nice work. How far did she go and did the arrow hit anything other than stomach/intestines?

How far away can you find a dead deer with the FLIR scanner? How does it do in areas with lots of trees/brush?

She went about 120 yards. Only through intestines and stomach. I may have nicked the liver a little.

I can identify a deer at a couple hundred yards with the FLIR, but you need line of sight. It operates on body heat, so if something is blocking that, you don't see it. I has a mode where it thresholds the heat and depicts it in red. With bushes with leaves and stuff, I can often see little patches of red through them. It works best at night after the trees cool off. It was an expensive unit that I bought years ago for recovering deer. I recovered lot of deer (mine and for others) that I never would have recovered walking circles when there is no blood trail.
 

Doublewide

Yearling... With promise
She went about 120 yards. Only through intestines and stomach. I may have nicked the liver a little.

I can identify a deer at a couple hundred yards with the FLIR, but you need line of sight. It operates on body heat, so if something is blocking that, you don't see it. I has a mode where it thresholds the heat and depicts it in red. With bushes with leaves and stuff, I can often see little patches of red through them. It works best at night after the trees cool off. It was an expensive unit that I bought years ago for recovering deer. I recovered lot of deer (mine and for others) that I never would have recovered walking circles when there is no blood trail.
I'm intrigued with the FLIR, could you make any recommendations as to what to look for if purchasing a unit.
 

yoderjac

5 year old buck +
I'm intrigued with the FLIR, could you make any recommendations as to what to look for if purchasing a unit.
I have a FLIR Scout PS32. It has a 320x240 image sensor. I believe I paid several thousand dollars for it back in 2011. The refresh rate is low, but unless you are trying to drive with it, that doesn't matter. It works fine for deer recovery. You can probably get 640x512 for a couple thousand today. It's not cheap, but I use mine for doing off season deer surveys as well as deer recovery.
 

4wanderingeyes

5 year old buck +
I have a Seek thermal, it attaches to your phone. Much more economical then a stand alone unit.
 

Angus 1895

5 year old buck +
I believe that the anatomy pictures on targets / tutorials give a way to generous area of lung field.

I have some cow elk photos I will post to illustrate. I had a whitetail dissection series of photos but lost that I pad.

bottomn line on the ventral part of the animal the lungs are not very far caudal to the front leg.

Congratulations on finding your doe!
 
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yoderjac

5 year old buck +
I have a Seek thermal, it attaches to your phone. Much more economical then a stand alone unit.

I don't know anything about that unit, but a bit more on what to look for. The key is the image sensor sensitivity and resolution. When using a unit at night, this sensitivity is much less important as most everything is cold compared to the body heat of a deer. Sensitivity becomes important when trailing in the early evening, especially when the deer runs east. The west side of trees and rocks and such can pick up a lot of radiant heat that they dissipate slowly after dark. This background heat makes sensitivity more important. Daytime is even worse.

I can't speak to other units, but the image sensors on the FLIR brand are very good. They make both military and law enforcement units that are not available to the general public. The unit I got would be considered "Prosumer" level. One of the features I use the most often is the thresholding. It has 4 levels you can set. Operating normally, you get grey-shade. You can choose either white or black to represent heat. I prefer white. The brighter the white the hotter the source. What thresholding does is to represent any pixels greater than the threshold as red. This stands out very well to my eye. For most use during the day or early evening, I keep it on the highest threshold. With snow on the ground, at 2 AM, I would probably lower the threshold.

Keep in mind that recovering deer is a pretty easy task for a good FLIR. Regardless of how good the image sensor is, if the heat is blocked by an obstacle, you won't detect it. When I scan with it, I move my head left and right as I rotate it to get different angles and then take a few steps and repeat. I'll then walk 20 yards and a time repeating the process. My FLIR easily detects a squirrel within 50 yards and under cool conditions will pick up little song birds.

I'm sure technology has increased in price/performance since I bought my unit in 2011. Let us know how your more economical unit performs. It may be good enough for deer recovery.
 

yoderjac

5 year old buck +
I believe that the anatomy pictures on targets / tutorials give a way to generous area of lung field.

I have some cow elk photos I will post to illustrate. I had a whitetail dissection series of photos but lost that I pad.

bottomn line on the ventral part of the animal the lungs are not very far caudal to the front leg.

Congratulations on finding your doe!

Yes, I teach IBEP so I'm well aware of the target area. The problem was that the deer stepped forward as I was releasing the arrow which caused the bad impact location. When we bowhunt, a thousand little things have to go right for success and only one has to go wrong for failure. Maybe that is 500 things for a crossbow. Even when we do everything in our power right, there are unpredictable things that can happen. My purpose in this thread was to talk about how to analyze a bad situation and make corrections if necessary, and how to handle a bad impact and how to maximize chances of a successful recovery.

Guys with access to a tracking dog, have a great asset!

Thanks,

Jack
 

Angus 1895

5 year old buck +
Was the animal presented on the left or right?

The liver is more on the right side ……due to the rumen.
 

yoderjac

5 year old buck +
Was the animal presented on the left or right?

The liver is more on the right side ……due to the rumen.

This deer was moving right to left, so the left side of the deer presented. As I said in a previous post, when I dressed it, I found what looked like a very small cut in the liver. Your are correct that the largest profile of a liver lobe is on the right side of the deer. This makes a slight quartering toward shot on the right side of the deer a more likely kill than on the left. However, I've learned it is best not to take those quartering toward shots at all. I try to limit myself to broadside and quartering away ahots.
 

omicron1792

5 year old buck +
My dad has a lab that points. Also an outstanding duck dog. He ran off one morning and was brought back by a group out of Arkansas that was duck hunting not far from the place. They asked who had trained it and what breedline it was as he was the best duck dog they had ever seen. Never been trained, just hunted a lot with my dad and got to know how to work. I've watched him swim past 4 dead ducks to get the cripple headed towards open water first. Then get the other 4 one at a time before they blew into the lake. Also retrieves doves without hesitation. Seems like most dogs don't like dove feathers in their mouth.
Agreed on feathers. I had feathers in her mouth early and often. It does prevent them from chewing on birds too much.
 

Angus 1895

5 year old buck +
Since you are a instructor of cervidae anatomy let’s have a closed book quiz.

1. How many ribs does a whitetail have?

2. What is the lowest number rib where you will locate the diaphragm?

3. Will that be dorsal or ventral?

4. What structure related to digestion that humans have a whitetail does not?

5. What structure on the thoracic vertebrae does a whitetail have a lot of where a human does not?

6. What structure is well developed in the whitetail that allow single pneumothorax to be minimal in effect?

7. Other than penetration…….which you claim is not important……….what does a sharp broad head minimize in clotting of bleeding?

8.What ganglion lies medial to the scapula?

9.What bone in the shoulder does a human have a whitetail does not?

10. Why?

a view of mount mammiga outta my man cave.



Answers will be posted in a few.

Thanks

John
 

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