A story of frustration, and a less than awesome solution

Your wife is a better hunter than me then!
I often wonder if i had better land if my goals would be different. Probably not but maybe.
Where i hunt, I could kill a deer 2 out of every 3 sits. And many sits, multiple deer. An 18 month old buck is not a challenge. They're probably 25% of the deer herd. And Probably 40% of the buck herd.

The buck I want to kill, and the buck I set up my farm to kill, is 1% or less of the overall herd.
 
Your wife is a better hunter than me then!
I often wonder if i had better land if my goals would be different. Probably not but maybe.
Man don’t sell yourself short. You can do it too. It just takes a little bit of restraint. Obviously land plays a role in it but it’s not the only factor. But don’t take what I was saying as a knock on anyone who wants to do it different. Hunting for me is a personal challenge. Your challenge may be entirely different.
 
Our situation is somewhat similar to what others have expressed. We currently have all but one neighbor on board with managing for older age classes of bucks. He is unfortunately in the middle of all of our properties and has something like +350 acres of deep timber. In the past, we have used him and how we know he and his family hunts as an excuse to kill younger bucks than we would like, because "if we don't shoot it, they will". It's a terrible and defeatist mindset for our own goals. At least us and some neighbors have matured just in the last year or so to start only taking older (3.5 or older) bucks. I think this will be the first year where everyone in our party has fully bought into this principle and next year we are going to have several more 4.5 or older bucks because of it. While we can't control what others do, it is certainly trusting in the process and saying no to short term satisfaction for long-term benefit of all.

There have been a couple of podcast episodes this past fall from Wired to Hunt and another that were about hunting cooperatives. I definitely suggest those on here to give them a listen. The people from state or national agencies that help set up the cooperatives say one thing that is consistent everywhere is that everyone assumes their neighbors take way more deer than they actually do. Kind of a reverse of "the grass is greener on the other side of the fence". Grant Woods has spoken quite a bit about this too. We hear gun shots and assume the worst - that the up and comer we have passed the last two years just got smoked.

There has been some good discussion on here and some contrasting viewpoints that I have appreciated.
 
Your wife is a better hunter than me then!
I often wonder if i had better land if my goals would be different. Probably not but maybe.
I think your land has a lot to do with your goals. In 5 years I don't think I've ever seen the same buck two years in a row. I know I can't "grow" them on my property. I'm not sure that I've personally seen a 4 year old buck while hunting or even got a picture of one on my property. My dad shot one the other year that I believe was fairly old, but it was the first time we ever saw it and I'm pretty sure it got pushed over from the neighbors. My biggest buck ever is about a 100" 8 pt. That's my goal, beat that one. I see buck as big or bigger now so I know it's a realistic goal. If my shooting were better I would've realized that goal already but that's another story.
 
Man don’t sell yourself short. You can do it too. It just takes a little bit of restraint. Obviously land plays a role in it but it’s not the only factor. But don’t take what I was saying as a knock on anyone who wants to do it different. Hunting for me is a personal challenge. Your challenge may be entirely different.
The thing is I seriously dont get into the horn porn end. If i had a 150 lb 10 point in front of me along with a 150 pound doe im probably shooting the doe, the meats better ( i know,i know a 150 lb buck os probably 2 or 3 anyway so either way im doing it your way!). Don't get me wrong dig the horns but its not what drives me.
I hunt for 2 reasons 1 is to fill the freezer, and 2 is to relax. The land work and planting is relaxing to me, i hunt the same way to relax.
 
I think your land has a lot to do with your goals. In 5 years I don't think I've ever seen the same buck two years in a row. I know I can't "grow" them on my property. I'm not sure that I've personally seen a 4 year old buck while hunting or even got a picture of one on my property. My dad shot one the other year that I believe was fairly old, but it was the first time we ever saw it and I'm pretty sure it got pushed over from the neighbors. My biggest buck ever is about a 100" 8 pt. That's my goal, beat that one. I see buck as big or bigger now so I know it's a realistic goal. If my shooting were better I would've realized that goal already but that's another story.

I have almost zero cover so I try to get them with food and plant cover for them so they come out in the daylight.
2 years ago I started seeing and getting pics of a bruiser 10. Im not going to say i hunted for him but i certainly wouldn't have passed on him either. The neighbors shot him . Not gonna lie, at first I was crushed a bit. But i think I changed at that point and just started accepting it all and doing what I can and let the chips fall. But i have always been more of a meat first hunter.
 
The thing is I seriously dont get into the horn porn end. If i had a 150 lb 10 point in front of me along with a 150 pound doe im probably shooting the doe, the meats better ( i know,i know a 150 lb buck os probably 2 or 3 anyway so either way im doing it your way!). Don't get me wrong dig the horns but its not what drives me.
I hunt for 2 reasons 1 is to fill the freezer, and 2 is to relax. The land work and planting is relaxing to me, i hunt the same way to relax.
Awesome…you don’t have to justify your reasons to anyone but yourself. The meat is awesome I get it!
I’m ate up with it, it consumes my thoughts and frankly a lot of personal and business decisions so it’s not a “hobby” but a way of life for me. I moved my family and business last year and 90% was driven by wanting to be closer to my farm. With what I sacrifice and commit to this way of life shooting dime a dozen bucks don’t move my meter. But life is short, if you are happy screw it! Do what makes you happy
 
Awesome…you don’t have to justify your reasons to anyone but yourself. The meat is awesome I get it!
I’m ate up with it, it consumes my thoughts and frankly a lot of personal and business decisions so it’s not a “hobby” but a way of life for me. I moved my family and business last year and 90% was driven by wanting to be closer to my farm. With what I sacrifice and commit to this way of life shooting dime a dozen bucks don’t move my meter. But life is short, if you are happy screw it! Do what makes you happy
I'm blessed to be within 45 minutes of my place. Had a buddy who went gunning yesterday at another farm and had 2+ hours to get to and from it. No thanks.

While I see the potential and what hte property could be if we were all on the same page, I'd rather take some outside chances at a big buck every 2 years or so than have to drive 2+ hours every time I wanna see the farm, even if the hunting is better.

Going hunting half a day and still being home in time to put the kids to bed is a darn good setup.
 
Alot of this is true, but there is also the fact that not everyone has the same goals.
100% agree. What I said in post #160 was just about MY thoughts, and how my goals have changed over the years. I never blast on anyone who has different goals. I love venison as much as the next guy - but I also don't need it to survive. I think you said in a post here that your biggest is about a 130". That's about my biggest also - a 10 pt. Here in the mountains of Pa. - any buck 120" or better is a pretty good buck. A buck bigger than 130" to 140" in the mountains is a "buck-of-a-lifetime" - you better shoot it - or hate yourself the rest of your days !! Some areas of the country, a 130" buck is OK - but not a big fuss.

Around our camp, I let smaller 6 and 8 pts. walk. They'll make one of our younger sons / grandsons thrilled if they get the chance for a shot. That's my thought NOW - at my age. When I was younger, those same bucks would have been stiff.
 
I'm blessed to be within 45 minutes of my place. Had a buddy who went gunning yesterday at another farm and had 2+ hours to get to and from it. No thanks.
3 hours almost to the minute to camp for me. 45 minutes would be a dream.
 
I walked out my back door yesterday evening armed with video camera and binocs. Went to a 5 acre clover plot with small grains, chicory, collards, mustards, radishes, and plantain. Filmed this guy. Life is good on Baker Regenerative Farm


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Ok, maybe i'm not that lucky. Just when I start feeling better about my set up Baker throws a trump card.
 
I have a very wild very orange very large tabby cat running around does that count?
 
I always try to see things from everyone's POV. My next door neighbor is the nicest guy. He's 74 and owns a 40 in a neighboring county. The area he's in is legendary. His kids don't hunt, but he has a group of old friends who come and stay with him every year for the short shotgun seasons, his "deer camp." I think deep down he'd like to shoot a big buck, but he's happy getting a doe or any buck that gives him a shot. Same with his friends. They're too crowded on the 40. One of the guys is 78 and my neighbor told me if he gets a deer this year he'll give it to the 78 because he needs it more. If my neighbor kicked everyone out, he'd probably have very good hunting that lasts the entire season. But he has no interest in doing that. I'm sure there are trophy managers in his 'hood that are unhappy with him, but he doesn't care one bit and why would he? It's a bunch of old guys having a good time and staying inside the law. He was also doing habitat before it was cool. Planting fruit and oak trees, crp and burns, killing invasive brush, etc.
 
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I always try to see things from everyone's POV. My next door neighbor is the nicest guy. He's 74 and owns a 40 in a neighboring county. The area he's in is legendary. His kids don't hunt, but he has a group of old friends who come and stay with him every year for the short shotgun seasons, his "deer camp." I think deep down he'd like to shoot a big buck, but he's happy getting a doe or any buck that gives him a shot. Same with his friends. They're too crowded on the 40. One of the guys is 78 and my neighbor told me if he gets a deer this year he'll give it to the 78 because he needs it more. If my neighbor kicked everyone out, he'd probably have very good hunting that lasts the entire season. But he has no interest in doing that. I'm sure there are trophy managers in his 'hood that are unhappy with him, but he doesn't care one bit and why would he? It's a bunch of old guys having a good time and staying inside the law. He was also doing habitat before it was cool. Planting fruit and oak trees, crp and burns, killing invasive brush, etc.
More power to the old man, I aint far off. My biggest problem with baiting is it allows the small property owners, who grow and foster few, if any deer, the opportunity to kill them at an elevated rate. I have one 15 acre adjacent landowner on who’s land has been killed one ten pt and four does. On my 350 acres, we have killed three bucks. On the adjacent 1200 acres, they have killed one buck. My fifteen acre neighbor, and he isnt the only one, I just know for a fact what they have killed - has killed more deer off his 15 acres than me and my neighbor have off 1550 acres. The 15 acre neighbor is killing a deer per three acres. It is not that us larger landowners dont want to put some does in the freezer, also - but we have very poor fawn recruitment in this area - and dont feel the doe herd can stand anymore harvest than what is already occurring. I have seven neighboring properties of less than 20 acres - and most of the owners deer hunt. Most of the deer they kill come off my property or my 1200 neighbor’s property. Those of us who grow the deer dont kill them so that those who do not grow the deer can kill them. The small property landowners feel there is no benefit to pass deer because they own so little land, they know they cannot afford them any protection. And why should they, when the larger landowner next door neighbors keep providing them deer.

These landowners have almost nothing on their land that would normally attract or hold deer. Without the ability to run a corn feeder, these folks would not be able to kill five deer in five hours like they are now doing. Without the ability to bait, these folks would have to put in some long hours to even see a deer, let alone a herd of them.
 
Yeah, without going back thru this whole thread, seems the happy medium for some guys should be to feed corn (the fighting fire with fire part) but just don't hunt the corn if you don't want to. It seems to me there wouldn't be much of a herd if every 5 acre owner fed corn and piled up many deer/buck kills. I know there are a lot of small acreage owners on this site, but everyone needs to be honest that it does take large acreages to help keep things somewhat natural. Has to be some balance. I think I'll go back to hanging out on much less controversial threads, like rittenhouse and corona...
 
I got you both beat. Less than a 5 minute walk to my furthest stand from my garage.
from my front door, fully dressed, I can be in the stand and ready to shoot in 6 minutes....it was a lifelong dream of mine and it is now only going to get better!
 
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