Wildflower Mix Have a Place?
- Thread starter SD51555
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Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Lol, I've been doing the same thing all winter. Walking around with a catalog trying to figure out what I have already growing. It will be easier to identify stuff when they bloom and have foliage (not just winter stems).
CrazyEd
5 year old buck +
Cool thread, thanks for pulling me in.
Yeah so we have been messing around with Wildflowers and Prairie Grasses (NWSG) for 15 - 20 years on our property. The whole reason it started because a decent section (40 acres?) of our land was mature red oak park like woods. Well when a tornado ripped through and leveled the place we began to start seeing all these native plants emerge that had been dormant for decades. My parents were really drawn to these magnificent little specimens to the point they started a business selling wildflower and prairie grass seeds. They've put together a nice little family owned business that keeps them busy during their retirement years. Because of the business i've had a lot of exposure to much of this and we've turned around and added lots of plantings on our property as well. I lead the way with the fruit tree projects but my father leads the way with the other stuff.
I agree with much of what has been said. I'm also in the camp of more diversity the better. stands of wildflowers alone or mixed with NWSG can be powerful. It creates edge when next to timber, it can provide bedding and brooding area. It increases pollinators. It can provide cover and it can encourage daytime movement. It can also be beautiful year round. During spring and summer you can see beautiful flowers blooming and in mid-late fall the colors of the grasses is just amazing.
Some species (grasses) can take over wildflowers but like just about anything us habitaters do much of it depends on soil quality. Our soil is very light and sandy, and while the grasses and flowers grow well we dont get the insanely dense stands that other people do on good soils. That could be a blessing if your goal is more forbes and flowers or a curse if your goal is thick bedding. Either way, I think anytime you add diversity you are improving your property.
Here's a look into Gods Country. This is the view out of a new box blind we put up this fall.
Yeah so we have been messing around with Wildflowers and Prairie Grasses (NWSG) for 15 - 20 years on our property. The whole reason it started because a decent section (40 acres?) of our land was mature red oak park like woods. Well when a tornado ripped through and leveled the place we began to start seeing all these native plants emerge that had been dormant for decades. My parents were really drawn to these magnificent little specimens to the point they started a business selling wildflower and prairie grass seeds. They've put together a nice little family owned business that keeps them busy during their retirement years. Because of the business i've had a lot of exposure to much of this and we've turned around and added lots of plantings on our property as well. I lead the way with the fruit tree projects but my father leads the way with the other stuff.
I agree with much of what has been said. I'm also in the camp of more diversity the better. stands of wildflowers alone or mixed with NWSG can be powerful. It creates edge when next to timber, it can provide bedding and brooding area. It increases pollinators. It can provide cover and it can encourage daytime movement. It can also be beautiful year round. During spring and summer you can see beautiful flowers blooming and in mid-late fall the colors of the grasses is just amazing.
Some species (grasses) can take over wildflowers but like just about anything us habitaters do much of it depends on soil quality. Our soil is very light and sandy, and while the grasses and flowers grow well we dont get the insanely dense stands that other people do on good soils. That could be a blessing if your goal is more forbes and flowers or a curse if your goal is thick bedding. Either way, I think anytime you add diversity you are improving your property.
Here's a look into Gods Country. This is the view out of a new box blind we put up this fall.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
CrazyEd,
What do you recommend for soil prep? Would you spend a summer spraying and disking the grass and then plant the next yr? Frost seed this yr without soil prep? Wait until spring this yr and spray, disc, plant?
When do you plant; fall, winter, or spring? Any nurse crops like winter rye?
Also, does your family have a website or catalog?
What do you recommend for soil prep? Would you spend a summer spraying and disking the grass and then plant the next yr? Frost seed this yr without soil prep? Wait until spring this yr and spray, disc, plant?
When do you plant; fall, winter, or spring? Any nurse crops like winter rye?
Also, does your family have a website or catalog?
CrazyEd
5 year old buck +
LickCreek/Doubletree has a lot of good posts about preparation for Switchgrass plantings. For us, we have basically done a plot where we ran a disc to break ground and planted, but we have done a plot where we sprayed with OustXP and Roundup, and then broadcast. We prefer the 2nd option. You could spray once with OustXP & Roundup as soon as things green up and it's warm enough. Then just hit it with Roundup the rest of the growing season (no oust). If you have a good kill then you could broadcast your seed late fall or or late winter. Some people don't like to broadcast any sooner than they have to because birds and mice and critters might eat some seed. We like broadcasting in late fall just before the snow comes.
We haven't done nurse crops but you certainly can. Some of our plants we have included canada wild rye as part of our planting in some areas, it is not an annual and is the first thing to green up in spring and we have witnessed deer hammering away at it. Winter Rye would be suitable if you want a cover crop.
We haven't done nurse crops but you certainly can. Some of our plants we have included canada wild rye as part of our planting in some areas, it is not an annual and is the first thing to green up in spring and we have witnessed deer hammering away at it. Winter Rye would be suitable if you want a cover crop.
D
dipper
Guest
I heard oust is a no no with wild flowers and Forbes?
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
For ground prep I did two spring spraying with roundup. The second spraying included some Crossbow to take care of a bunch if Ironweeds that emerged after the first spraying. It also included a very small amount (4 ounces/acre?) of Plateau. Even with all this, there was still a lot of stuff that came from the seedbank - some I liked and some I didn't like.
I think an improvement for me would have been a late summer spraying and then another one (or two) next spring. The more you can deplete the soil of things you don't want the more likely what you do want will do better.
My seed were drilled, and as stated before, mine was done with a mixture of forbs and grasses. When you do this, the forbs will show up mainly in the first two years and start to disappear as the grasses form their stools. You can disk and bring them back, but you also bring back all the things you don't want in a wildflower plot (such as Canada Horseweed).
It depends on just how "pretty" you want it. If its for deer, then you can get by with less work. If your trying to please a woman - oh well, never mind...LOL.
Plateau was made for Prairie establishment. It's very expensive but it will take care of a lot of undesirables such as Johnson Grass. It will also hurt Switchgrass at some levels, but there are a tremendous bunch of wildflowers it won't harm at the recommended rates. If anyone has Johnson Grass (glad I didn't) you are in for a job ever getting rid of it, and it will take over about anything else.
I think an improvement for me would have been a late summer spraying and then another one (or two) next spring. The more you can deplete the soil of things you don't want the more likely what you do want will do better.
My seed were drilled, and as stated before, mine was done with a mixture of forbs and grasses. When you do this, the forbs will show up mainly in the first two years and start to disappear as the grasses form their stools. You can disk and bring them back, but you also bring back all the things you don't want in a wildflower plot (such as Canada Horseweed).
It depends on just how "pretty" you want it. If its for deer, then you can get by with less work. If your trying to please a woman - oh well, never mind...LOL.
Plateau was made for Prairie establishment. It's very expensive but it will take care of a lot of undesirables such as Johnson Grass. It will also hurt Switchgrass at some levels, but there are a tremendous bunch of wildflowers it won't harm at the recommended rates. If anyone has Johnson Grass (glad I didn't) you are in for a job ever getting rid of it, and it will take over about anything else.
CrazyEd
5 year old buck +
It's all about how soon you plant after you spray. The Virginia sedge on our place is so thick it takes 12-18 months to break down. Planting that long after a single spraying of oust was not a problem for us. We are patient, most are not. If your not just use roundup. I'm talking during establishment only, not management.
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This is all great info, guys. All the plantings I've been part of used solarization, so I didn't know that much about which herbicide to use.
I got 2 good sprays in last summer prior to a BOB mix of oats peas, I mixed that with triticale and brassicas. I'm planning on frost seeding red clover in a few weeks. Do you think that I'd be able to get enough of a kill if I sprayed following greenup and incorporation of the triticale and redclover (Mayish... after the triticale has served its purpose in being a good first green crop) in the spring, then planted buckwheat which I'd then incorporate and spray following green up again? I'd then go back to a WR and brassica mix into which I'd frost seed the prairie mix(probably by broadcasting) that following spring.
I worry about getting too few sprays. Long term I want to avoid pesticides on my land as much as possible, but to do that I need to use them to get a clean bed. Do you think that I'd be getting enough prep?
I got 2 good sprays in last summer prior to a BOB mix of oats peas, I mixed that with triticale and brassicas. I'm planning on frost seeding red clover in a few weeks. Do you think that I'd be able to get enough of a kill if I sprayed following greenup and incorporation of the triticale and redclover (Mayish... after the triticale has served its purpose in being a good first green crop) in the spring, then planted buckwheat which I'd then incorporate and spray following green up again? I'd then go back to a WR and brassica mix into which I'd frost seed the prairie mix(probably by broadcasting) that following spring.
I worry about getting too few sprays. Long term I want to avoid pesticides on my land as much as possible, but to do that I need to use them to get a clean bed. Do you think that I'd be getting enough prep?
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
How did solarization work for you? I stumbled upon that yesterday and did some reading on it. I wondered if it would kill your microbes and invertebrates that are so important to soil health.
j-bird
Moderator
I have a place on my property that screams for a nice wildflower meadow. Its currently all fescue and I hate mowing it. It's right along the road as well. I talked to the wife about planting it in wildflowers and she of all people said NO. I was shocked. It's 1.3 acres of useless fescue. I thought a large meadow area with summer flowers would be awesome - expensive, but awesome. She said she likes the mowed looked and not the "weeds". I don't want to convert it to true deer habitat because of the road, but I figured the rabbits and other critters would enjoy it as well as I wouldn't have to mow it and it look better. My wife has the "old school" vision of what things should look like. She likes that manicured look - you know the ones that have ZERO wildlife value. I may do it one of these days anyway. I have another acre of hillside that I want to convert to trees because it is a tractor roll-over accident waiting to happen.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Plant the back border of it and keep mowing the front (without telling her of course). She may like it and LET you do the rest.
j-bird
Moderator
NOPE! I'll just do it and she'll be upset and get over it - and when everyone comments about how pretty it is THEN it will be her idea.
I do much better staring at my shoes and begging for forgiveness 99% of the time. I do however know when I'm crossing the line - that's the key!
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Lol, it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission! Unless she hates it and you've just ruined a nice field of fescue (if there is such a thing).
The solarization that we used was on a small scale. It was a 100x250 area. It was surrounded by hedgerows and other areas that weren't filled with grasses/weren't being converted. The first year it was kinda slow, but then everything took off after that... which as far as I know is normal for these type plantings.
I would think that it would kill the good stuff, but since it was surrounded by "untreated" soil the good stuff spread back into it. I would assume that the worms would go somewhere else in the surrounding area.
Overall, I think it's a useful tool in a small area that you're not wanting to spray (maybe near a pond or in areas that water might come in and wash away residues), but it would be a major challenge for anything very large, at least within a general deer land management type situation. If you were an organic farmer, and was able to rotate a few fields into and out of solarization it would be much more practical than for our uses. I hate spraying, but I think that for my area that I'm planting spraying and cultural control is the best practice for eliminating weeds prior to a planting.
Golf Courses are manicured... so take that and just pitch it as you're "trying to recreate the rough"
