which kind of disc?
- Thread starter Powder
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
If you have small food plots or tight woodland roads, a 3-pt hitch disk is much easier to maneuver. If you go with a 3-point hitch disk, the size may be limited by your hitch lift capability. If you are minimizing tillage setting the disk very straight you may not care about weight per disk. If you plan to use it for firebreaks or something where you want full disruption of the vegetation, consider the weight per individual disk not the weight of the overall unit. I've been looking at getting one for a while that I plan to use for both firebreaks and food plots. Here is the thread with folks suggestions and my paper analysis for my use: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.p...stions-please-transfered-from-old-forum.5562/ You might get some ideas from it.
Thanks,
Jack
Thanks,
Jack
rocksnstumps
5 year old buck +
Kinda a Ford/Chevy question and if limiting to 6 ft wide probably not much advantage either way but some thoughts to consider.
1) How big a plot/field do you want to work. If small and tight advantage to the 3 pt but with bigger plots I like the results I've seen with the pull type
2) Transport down a road or tight woods trails before getting to plot (advantage 3 pt) or leave at the land? Most of the old pull types had some way to take the angle out of the discs for transport but they still had to roll all the way to where they were needed. Kinda rough on the discs to bounce down a lot of road an not so good for the road during hot days either. Sure the bigger/newer ones have transport wheels but since we are talking pulling it with some good old iron but frugal tractor setup, assume that you are looking getting a used one for little $$.
3) I've seen some old iron like 8N/TO20 use 8 ft wide pull types but never much over a 6 to 6.5 ft with 3 pt. I think with the pull type you can go a little wider disc compared to 3 pt style.
4) There was a guy with a handle like wolc123 on some site, (now what was the name of that place? Oh well I forget) that use to swear by pull types and got beat up a lot from some others that 3 pts were just as useful but I tend to agree that on a couple of acre plot or more that I would like to have a pull type over the 3 pt.
5) The newer KK 3 pts with angle iron frames are not worth the trouble in my opinion. I had one to borrow from a family member for awhile and replaced the sleeve bushings (not really a bearing) too many times and did some pretzel damage that I had to fix to 3 pt mounting arms. I like and have several other KK implements but their disc with that design is not great. Box frame is better or find some old iron with heavier angle used.
6) I currently have an old 3 pt that is a little heavier frame since it was about 9.5 fter but knew upfront that would be too much for my tractor and so removed a couple of the outer disks on all four gangs so now is more like 7.5" fter. But I work it with a 40 hp tractor.
I see Jack and I were posting about the same time with some of the same thoughts...
1) How big a plot/field do you want to work. If small and tight advantage to the 3 pt but with bigger plots I like the results I've seen with the pull type
2) Transport down a road or tight woods trails before getting to plot (advantage 3 pt) or leave at the land? Most of the old pull types had some way to take the angle out of the discs for transport but they still had to roll all the way to where they were needed. Kinda rough on the discs to bounce down a lot of road an not so good for the road during hot days either. Sure the bigger/newer ones have transport wheels but since we are talking pulling it with some good old iron but frugal tractor setup, assume that you are looking getting a used one for little $$.
3) I've seen some old iron like 8N/TO20 use 8 ft wide pull types but never much over a 6 to 6.5 ft with 3 pt. I think with the pull type you can go a little wider disc compared to 3 pt style.
4) There was a guy with a handle like wolc123 on some site, (now what was the name of that place? Oh well I forget) that use to swear by pull types and got beat up a lot from some others that 3 pts were just as useful but I tend to agree that on a couple of acre plot or more that I would like to have a pull type over the 3 pt.
5) The newer KK 3 pts with angle iron frames are not worth the trouble in my opinion. I had one to borrow from a family member for awhile and replaced the sleeve bushings (not really a bearing) too many times and did some pretzel damage that I had to fix to 3 pt mounting arms. I like and have several other KK implements but their disc with that design is not great. Box frame is better or find some old iron with heavier angle used.
6) I currently have an old 3 pt that is a little heavier frame since it was about 9.5 fter but knew upfront that would be too much for my tractor and so removed a couple of the outer disks on all four gangs so now is more like 7.5" fter. But I work it with a 40 hp tractor.
I see Jack and I were posting about the same time with some of the same thoughts...
Powder
5 year old buck +
The plots I have will be new. One will be about .75 acres and the other two will each be about 1.4 to 1.5 acres. Last winter the area where the two large plots are going was logged. I'm having a guy come in next week with a forestry cutter to mulch up the stumps and leftover debri. I thought it would be good to incorporate the mulch into the soil with the disc.
Getting to the smallest plot is on a narrow trail so I can see why having a 3pt would be helpful.
I'm mainly looking at the LC Mix. My deer population is fairly low so I was kicking around the idea of soybeans at some point. The smallest plot is what I would consider a 'kill plot' so it might be brassicas for two years and then soybeans for one.
I do have a heavy drag from Tractor Supply that I use for dragging the road.
Getting to the smallest plot is on a narrow trail so I can see why having a 3pt would be helpful.
I'm mainly looking at the LC Mix. My deer population is fairly low so I was kicking around the idea of soybeans at some point. The smallest plot is what I would consider a 'kill plot' so it might be brassicas for two years and then soybeans for one.
I do have a heavy drag from Tractor Supply that I use for dragging the road.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Keep in mind that when you incorporate wood chips and debris, as they begin to decay, they will tie up a lot of N. Keep in mind that for many fall plots we plant for deer like the components in an LC mix we don't need much if any tillage. It may depend on your soils. Take a look the Ray the Soil guy videos as well as the Crimson and Camo threads that show those principles applied to small equipment food plotters. I'm not saying you don't want a disc, just that it could save you some money if you take a look at the advantages and disadvantages of the different planting methods before deciding what equipment to buy. We bought a 2 bottom plow that now sits and rusts. We have not used it in years. For that small acreage, also consider a tiller if your tractor has a PTO. I've been successful using a tiller for minimum tillage. I set it so high it barely hits the top inch. It is enough to break the crusting my clay gets but is not deep enough to introduce a lot of O2 into the soil that causes increased burn of OM.
You may have already done this analysis, but I think that was the point of the question of what you plan to plant. Depending on the method you choose, and what you plan to plant, a disc may not be the right tool.
Thanks,
jack
You may have already done this analysis, but I think that was the point of the question of what you plan to plant. Depending on the method you choose, and what you plan to plant, a disc may not be the right tool.
Thanks,
jack
rocksnstumps
5 year old buck +
What are you planting is a fair question but what is your plot like is also important and may make no till approach out of the gate not as attractive so allow ease of working and maintaining down the road. Since the OP now has let us know its a new plot and being destumped I agree initial disking to loosen up some soil to help fill in holes and level would make it much nicer to get a plot created and allow ease of mowing and working later. Go no till later if your mix gets good germination with broadcasting but having some time and money invested upfront makes sense.
I still disc over no till mostly because always removing stones and releveling or working the edges to expand existing plots. Gotta have some dirt to fill in those 3 ft holes.
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I have an old Ford 841, which is a little bigger than the 2N I believe. I have a 3 point disk that's roughly 6 foot wide and it works great. It's an old double row disk with notched blades and roller bearings. I bought it used for around $500 I believe. I only plant a couple acres of plots a year, so the 3 point disk works perfect for me.
MRBB
5 year old buck +
anything thing over a 6 ft drag disc will be taxing your tractor, NOT saying it won't do it, but its going to struggle, I ran a old IH, model H< almost a match to the ford (8N actually, same deal as a 2n) and I could pull a 8 ft disc OK ish on easy going grounds
when you get into soft ground and can get a lot of bite, it can slow/tax the tractor down pretty good
IF you go to a 3 point hitch deal, the fact you can ad so much down force over a drag type, your for sure going to want to stay smaller, even a 6 ft might be a lot for it
on smaller disc I prefer the drag types, as they follow the ground better, don't lift and elevate as a 3 point one will do! as tractor goes up and down!
plus a drag disc should be a lot cheaper to buy, as there about ALL old and NO real farmer will use them anymore
500 bucks should get you a decent one, of less and rebuilt it , and it will last another 40+ yrs as most are from the 60-70's that are out there!
trying to do a 1.5 acre plot with a 4 ft disc is a LOT of seat time, just so you know, so another reason a drag disc, even a light weight 8 ft'er gets MY vote here or a decent 6 ft one!
when you get into soft ground and can get a lot of bite, it can slow/tax the tractor down pretty good
IF you go to a 3 point hitch deal, the fact you can ad so much down force over a drag type, your for sure going to want to stay smaller, even a 6 ft might be a lot for it
on smaller disc I prefer the drag types, as they follow the ground better, don't lift and elevate as a 3 point one will do! as tractor goes up and down!
plus a drag disc should be a lot cheaper to buy, as there about ALL old and NO real farmer will use them anymore
500 bucks should get you a decent one, of less and rebuilt it , and it will last another 40+ yrs as most are from the 60-70's that are out there!
trying to do a 1.5 acre plot with a 4 ft disc is a LOT of seat time, just so you know, so another reason a drag disc, even a light weight 8 ft'er gets MY vote here or a decent 6 ft one!
Tap
5 year old buck +
I have a question for you disc experts and the answer may also help the OP make his decision.
When you are making tight turns, I assume a 3 point disc should be lifted because of the side pressure the earth will put on the discs. Am I correct? And if so, does a drag disc allow the implement to be left engaged during tight turns since it's not hooked to the tractor via a 3 point connection?
When you are making tight turns, I assume a 3 point disc should be lifted because of the side pressure the earth will put on the discs. Am I correct? And if so, does a drag disc allow the implement to be left engaged during tight turns since it's not hooked to the tractor via a 3 point connection?
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I'm not expert, but I've used a number of discs over the years. It really kind of depends on how you are using the disc and the soil. It is not like a bottom plow or seed drill. I guess if your disc is deep enough and the turn is tight enough you may need to lift it. Think about how much a disc is adjustable from nearly straight to pretty aggressive. So, the discs themselves are intended to engage the soil at a variety of angles. Also realize that the disc itself will limit the tightness of the turn you can make. The same applies to a hydraulic tow-behind disc, but again the amount tightness of the turn is limited by the structure as well.
One more thing to consider is the disc frame. It will take on angular stresses when you make turns. Light angle iron frame discs may have issues. Most of my experience has been with heavy tubular style frames. They are pretty rugged. In most cases, you simply avoid tight turns when operating a disc.
Thanks,
jack
Tap
5 year old buck +
I've always assumed all of that with 3 point discs. I'm wondering if drag discs are less critical of tight turns.
We all know how a 3 point implement swings sideways (tail swing) on turns. I didn't know if the same principles apply with drag style implements. Seems to me that pulling a drag disc has fewer possible complications than with a 3 point disc. I own a 3 point and I often wonder if I'd like a drag better for my applications.
SW Pa
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
The hydraulic tow-behind discs I've used simply can't take that tight of turn. If you about it, a tow-behind simply allows the tractor to begin turning before the front of the disc. If you cut your wheels as hard as possible and just spun in a circle, there would be a functional center point the disc was spinning around. I think the amount of force on the back of the disc (tail swing) would be a function of the distance between that center point and the end of the disc. The fact that a 3-pt disc is constrained by the lift arm allows the tractor to make a tight turn forcing the disc to turn sooner. However, with a tow behind, the frame of the disc would contact the tire if unconstrained if the turn was too tight.
For discing large areas with no tight maneuvering required and open space to turn around, a hydraulic tow-behind disc works great. If I'm going down a logging road and there is a tree across the road and I have to make a U-turn, I'd rather have a 3-pt hitch disc.
Thanks,
jack
Tap
5 year old buck +
I realize that you can make too tight of a turn with drag implements. I've had wheel contact with my cultimulcher and also many years ago during the one and only time I used a borrowed drag disc.
I'm not trying to jack the thread, but I thought that how discs can be turned may be of importance to the OP.
A lot of us have odd shaped and small plots that require a lot of turning. Just thought it might be something to consider.
SW Pa
I'm not trying to jack the thread, but I thought that how discs can be turned may be of importance to the OP.
A lot of us have odd shaped and small plots that require a lot of turning. Just thought it might be something to consider.
SW Pa
M
MoBuckChaser
Guest
You ain't farming, you are food plotting. Get what ever you get a good buy on. 3 pt disks are more difficult to hook up by yourself than a pull type. But since you will only use it a few times a year, it probably don't matter. So what difference does it really make which type you get.....
MRBB
5 year old buck +
the reason I say it matters is , there can be a big different in seat time, and most hunters don't have all that much to waste
field type and tractor type and size make a big difference to me on what type of disc you should be looking for and using!
both are tools, but each can do one type of job better and faster
plus easy or not of moving , use hooking up,. storing, greasing, and so on, all add into the mix,
yes they both most likely do the job, but ?? time as they say is money and time is also in short supply to many! buying the better fitting one might be worth waiting for!
