when to plant conifer plugs?

[wiscwhip]

Hey Wisc, want to see the erection out my window here at work?!?o_O
View attachment 6553

They are building a 400,000 sq ft manufacturing facility here. Not sure of the crew doing it but these fella's bust ass! This was a field only back in late June.

Scared me there for a minute till I saw the picture!:eek: That is right up my alley j-bird. Looks like they had a decent engineering firm on that design, nothing overly complicated. I love the engineering firms that feel it is their duty to over-engineer the crap out of everything for no reason and use the most complex connection designs they can come up with when there are 2 or 3 choices that are far easier and completely within AISC code. We have a few engineering firms like that here over in the Fox Valley/Appleton/Green Bay area and I cringe every time I see their names on the drawing packets for bidding. As far as your "view" goes, I think I would have much rather had it remain a field. LOL

 

[wiscwhip]

As for the trees, I am much more concerned about the summer heat and weeds. I don't have winter weather like you guys do up Nort' but I think the thermal cover it will eventually provide will be a welcome addition to my property.

I think this ^^^ is one reason the fall planting might be a good fit for you. Wait until the oppressive August/early Sept heat has passed and get some 4a plugs in the ground to make sure they can expand a few roots into the fresh dirt before going dormant, at that point I think it would be fine. I would consider planting them right into the weeds(flag them to find them later) to protect them from winter injury, and get yourself a 5 gallon bucket with the bottom cut out to slip over them(or just use the bucket as is if the trees are not too tall) next spring to protect them from spraying. Take care of the weeds after you have used them like a Gov't mule to do your dirty work for you. Spray around them with a mixture of gly and Oust XP next spring at green-up and your golden.

 

[j-bird]

Scared me there for a minute till I saw the picture!:eek: That is right up my alley j-bird. Looks like they had a decent engineering firm on that design, nothing overly complicated. I love the engineering firms that feel it is their duty to over-engineer the crap out of everything for no reason and use the most complex connection designs they can come up with when there are 2 or 3 choices that are far easier and completely within AISC code. We have a few engineering firms like that here over in the Fox Valley/Appleton/Green Bay area and I cringe every time I see their names on the drawing packets for bidding. As far as your "view" goes, I think I would have much rather had it remain a field. LOL

I figured that would get your attention!

As far as the view goes - it wasn't much before, but it was better than what it will be. It's at work so - they really didn't ask me my opinion. Oh well, it just means I can enjoy the view at the house that much more (that's the plus side to living on my hunting property).

I'll get Itasca on the horn and see if I can't get me some spruce plugs here in about a month.

 

[dipper]

U don't need nasty winter weather. The year I lost almost all my newly planted spruce was that winter of 2012, where it wasn't a winter. That tender young tree will burn up in 30 degree weather and some wind.
The snow keeps the tender young trees insulated. I wonder if that is why u don't see conifers in areas that don't have snow cover the majority of the winter?
I wouldn't plant fall either, but let us know how it goes.

 

[wiscwhip]

U don't need nasty winter weather. The year I lost almost all my newly planted spruce was that winter of 2012, where it wasn't a winter. That tender young tree will burn up in 30 degree weather and some wind.
The snow keeps the tender young trees insulated. I wonder if that is why u don't see conifers in areas that don't have snow cover the majority of the winter?
I wouldn't plant fall either, but let us know how it goes.

:confused:Not sure where your coming from there dipper? The whole South is covered up in conifers and it gets below 30 degrees plenty in many areas down there, especially northern AL, MS, GA and points north of that, yet they get very little snow? I'm thinking the cold, dry winds may play a bigger factor than below freezing temps and lack of snow.

 

[j-bird]

I'll try a couple hundred and see how it goes. I really, really don't want to mess with pine or cedar - I simply think the spruce will provide better thermal cover. I may plant some this fall and another batch again in the spring as well and see how it goes. I will also be in a few different locations on the farm so I will be able to see if the exposure is a factor as well.

I'll take pics and try to track progress when I get this underway.

I do know that I will have the ONLY spruce of any quantity for miles and miles if this works. Spruce in this area are mainly specimen or ornamental trees - IN doesn't have any native spruce that I am aware of (only pines and cedars).

 

[dipper]

:confused:Not sure where your coming from there dipper? The whole South is covered up in conifers and it gets below 30 degrees plenty in many areas down there, especially northern AL, MS, GA and points north of that, yet they get very little snow? I'm thinking the cold, dry winds may play a bigger factor than below freezing temps and lack of snow.

Sorry spruce, i think he said that's what he's planting. Pardon me if I said pine. Hope that straightens your face out.

 

[SD51555]

J-bird, you may as well get 500. If you're going to do a few hundred, the rest are practically free when you hit the 500 price point.

...That's weird. I can't do a snip of the price page for Itasca. It blacks out the page when the snipping tool comes up. Anyway. Here's the breakdown for Black, White, and Norway.

250 will cost you 71 cents = $177
500 will cost you 27 cents = $135

They let you mix and match species. As long as your stem count is 500, you get the 500 price point on everything. If you don't have room for all of them, do some rogue midnight planting on your favorite public hunting ground or sell them to neighbors. They'll think it's a smoking deal at 75 cents/ea.

http://www.itascagreenhouse.com/page4.html

We did 5' spacing on our black spruce in the low ground. We'll go back and thin them out once they start touching.

 

[SD51555]

I'd urge you to consider buying the KBC bar too. If you get into anything larger than 4a, the step in tool that some guys use may not work with larger plugs. You can't get RO dogwood in 4a, or bur oak in 4a. Just something to be aware of. It's a noticeable change in work I'm sure, but it keeps your options open.

http://www.itascagreenhouse.com/page22.html

 

[tooln]

I'd seriously consider going with SD1555 suggestion of getting 500. You can give away what you don't plant or maybe even sell them.

 

[CrazyEd]

I'd urge you to consider buying the KBC bar too. If you get into anything larger than 4a, the step in tool that some guys use may not work with larger plugs. You can't get RO dogwood in 4a, or bur oak in 4a. Just something to be aware of. It's a noticeable change in work I'm sure, but it keeps your options open.

http://www.itascagreenhouse.com/page22.html

I agree if you are doing plugs this tool is a must assuming you aren't planting in concrete. It makes it so much faster and easier in the right soil.

 

[j-bird]

Hell at that price break - I would be an idiot not to. I wasn't sure they would let me mix and match so that helps a bunch. This will really allow me to mix the norway, black and white spruce as I need more based on the soil conditions of the particular area. I think I will stick with the 4a tool for now. My soil is fairly loose (without much if any clay) and if I wait until the soil has some moisture in it that should help as well. If I move on to larger plugs later down the road I can cross that bridge when I get there.

My plan fr the bedding/thermal cover area was to line the perimeter of it with 2 rows to act more as a wind break and then plant the interior area in clusters of 5 or so. I was thinking more like a 6 or 8 foot spacing, but I like the idea of making them closer and I can always remove some if needed later.

Thanks guys.

 

[CrazyEd]

Here's what the Itasca 4a tool looks like. We use it for 77's too. Just use the metal end for the pilot hole and use the other end to bore it out a bit.

 

[PackerBacker]

You all talked me into giving 500 a try this fall. Thanks for the information.

 

[dipper]

You all talked me into giving 500 a try this fall. Thanks for the information.

I wouldn't, I've learned the hard way how preparation is criticial when planting spruce. I've lost trees for many many reason, from obvious drought to grubs. Everything is against u, and it creeps me out knowing there isn't one root set in the ground with a fall planted tree.

 

[j-bird]

Turns out the availability of what I want is "low" right now. Sounds like I may not be able to get mine until the spring after all. The e-mail I got was pretty wishy-washy as to if they would be available in sept/oct and may not even be ready in early spring. Sounds like they may not be ready until late spring or later.

 

[wiscwhip]

Turns out the availability of what I want is "low" right now. Sounds like I may not be able to get mine until the spring after all. The e-mail I got was pretty wishy-washy as to if they would be available in sept/oct and may not even be ready in early spring. Sounds like they may not be ready until late spring or later.

Well that sucks. I think you are at a latitude where this could work. Of course guys farther north would struggle with this, but I think your frosts are late enough and winters are mild enough that I would have worked for you.

 

[j-bird]

It turns out I can get bare root norway spruce from my state nursery - I'm checking availability now. I wouldn't get as many if I go bare root because it's going to be much more work.

I'll look into other places as well for plugs.

 

[scott44]

Not sure where you checked for plugs but I bought some Norways from NCR this spring. It looks like they have some in inventory.

http://www.ncrtrees.com/

 

[SD51555]

You gotta stay on top of them. They are experts at growing trees. They have some opportunity on the business end. It's worth the extra chasing from time to time. Once you plant plugs, you'll wonder why you ever did bare root.