What to do if there is an outfitter close to your slice of heaven??

I completely agree targeting a specific buck is near impossible but it’s that trophy from a mile away you never had on camera at all that I’m hoping for during peak rut hunting.

I read this opinion from a lot but guys, however, it's not my experience at all. I target specific bucks every year during November and am successful more often than not. I admit, I'm able to dedicate a lot of time to this and not everyone has the luxury of sitting day after day waiting on a specific buck.
My opinion is that they do not wander away from their core nearly as much as we tend to think. (I didn't say not at all) For the most part, I think they breed the does that are in the range they call home. They will not predictably show up in food plots during the rut though. I almost never kill them sitting over food in November.
As far as having a total stranger buck wander in. I have seen this on very rare occasions. More often than not, I think those stranger bucks are just bucks people didn't realize were there that became visible because of the rut. I have also seen a new buck move in after the dominant buck in the area is removed.

I agree with this but would say that the chance of taking a target buck or new stranger are about 50/50. I have had three to four 150-160 class bucks that called my place home simply jump my neighbors fence. They are local and have the benefit of more stand time. I have benefitted from a stranger buck also. I do agree that when you get to mature bucks, if you have good doe bedding& food sources around their core they do not need to wander far during the rut. Almost every year my neighbor will have pics of at least one mature buck that I have not seen, and the same for me with him.

Targeting & harvesting a mature buck can be done, but as always, more time in the stand increases your opportunity for a core or stranger buck.
 
I love the rut for targeting specific bucks. I do it every year and am successful at it more often than not. I don't find them on food like I would in October or December though.

I read this opinion from a lot but guys, however, it's not my experience at all. I target specific bucks every year during November and am successful more often than not. I admit, I'm able to dedicate a lot of time to this and not everyone has the luxury of sitting day after day waiting on a specific buck.
My opinion is that they do not wander away from their core nearly as much as we tend to think. (I didn't say not at all) For the most part, I think they breed the does that are in the range they call home. They will not predictably show up in food plots during the rut though. I almost never kill them sitting over food in November.
As far as having a total stranger buck wander in. I have seen this on very rare occasions. More often than not, I think those stranger bucks are just bucks people didn't realize were there that became visible because of the rut. I have also seen a new buck move in after the dominant buck in the area is removed.
I agree, that in general “your” big bucks dont leave the area during the rut - they are just not as patternable - at least where we hunt. My land is pretty thick - so we hunt the food plots no matter the time of year. We see a few new bucks during rut - but we are much more likely to see a new mature buck after rut - when he show up on a food plot. None of our bucks we have on the wall were not previously on camera.

We dont hunt as much early in season when temps may still be 100 degrees - but if you find a big buck at that time, he may well be more patternable then than any other time during season - as you may be able to set your clock by him. These bucks now are still typically in bachelor groups. I killed our biggest buck the first week of October and our temp was in the low 90’s. I have no idea how the arrow made it through the skeeters. When our bachelor herds break up, it is not uncommon to lose some of these deer to the next property over. They dont go ten miles away - but they might go a mile or two - and when you own smaller property - that may well take them away from your property.

Unlike a lot of states, our rut falls during the modern gun season. And based upon fawn birth - the rut usually falls around the 15 th of Nov, give or take a week. We hunt a lot then. Weather is usually nice and cool and deer are on the move - and there are still a lot of bucks in the woods because they have yet to go through a solid month of modern gun season. We see lots of bucks, chasing, fighting, breeding. In my opinion, the best time to be in the deer woods for watching deer - but rarely do we kill a target buck.

By December, deer activity has slowed way down. Many of the bucks are now in someone’s freezer. The survivor’s are strongly nocturnal - and worn down. They are looking for food - and the second rut (not nearly as frenzied) - is upon us. This is when we might start seeing some of the mature survivors edging out into the food plots just before dark. And this is when we have killed over half our target bucks.

Too be honest - I am sure our habitat affects our deer sightings. This is not ag land. It is timberland or cattle country. My 400 acres is primarily woods with about 20 acres of native grass. The woods are thick. These arent the open mature forests. They are mature in many areas - but very few areas would you be able to shoot a deer 75 yards away. The woods are thick - cedar, palmetto, green briar - and that is why we mostly hunt manmade food plot openings. Even the cattle country here is largely woods. I have two cattlemen neighbors who own 1300 and 1400 acres respectively. One has 700 acres of pasture and one has 400 acres. These arent square 40 acre fields either. They are odd shaped openings that meander through the woods.

A relative from northern Missouri once came to my place and his initial reaction was - I dont know how you guys ever kill a deer down here. Of my 400 acres - picture 360 acres of bedding habitat.

I once heard on a podcast a noted deer manager expounding on the attributes of the deer seasons in Iowa. Short modern gun season, not during the rut, one buck bag limit, etc. He also said that something like 8 or 10 percent of the state was deer cover. Probably 75% of our state is deer cover. My 400 acres is 100% deer cover - most of it bedding cover.

I know a lot of folks on this forum are concerned - and rightly so - with creating bedding areas. I am concerned with getting them out of the bedding areas - which are everywhere.

As a comparison to much of the southern half of Arkansas - there is about seven weeks of rifle season, along with another 12 days of ml, during the first and second rut. Two buck limit. And lets not forget - unleash the hounds - and in most areas, spread bait by the truckload. Many of the central US states, Iowa, Ohio, etc - might have two weeks of modern gun and a week of muzzle load. One buck with a firearm. No rut hunting. Imagine if some of these central states had fifty days of rifle hunting, along with 12 days of ml, two buck limit, during the rut. There wouldnt hardly Be a deer left.

I think our season structure fairly well illustrates what so much cover can afford the deer herd. I bet I have three or four neighbors who have a corn feeder they can shoot from their back porch. The one positive thing about an outfitter next door - they know they cant shoot the last deer they have or they will be out of business. 15 acre neighbors with a corn feeder off their back porch dont have that worry.

Native nailed it when he said where he lives, “the whole world hunts like an outfitter”.
 
Native nailed it when he said where he lives, “the whole world hunts like an outfitter”. Yes he did (sadly).

Swampcat, your place does sound very different than most and (oddly) somewhat similar to this Ohio property other than most of the mature woods are wide open but the topography dictates bedding. NO real food around other than those mature woods which are all dropping acorns.

Where I live and hunt a bunch in wNY the chase and seeking phases are so subdued because of the deer density and the b:d ration being 1:5 or maybe 15. I have seen 50+ in a beanfield and less than 5 had antlers and they were al small ones at that. Big guys who breed walk 10 feet to the next doe and that is compounded by our modern (2buck) firearm season starting 11/15 and running a month with ML until 1/1 and this is the land of the lawless. Back to the "whole world hunts...."

I genuinely do not know how the deer in this portion of Ohio hunt but have heard from a number of smart sources that chase phase has them going far and wide. Suspecting this is due to the lesser population density. Also have heard the corn piles are everywhere so inconsistency is compounded. Full circle to my layout- this is why i want plots and ample, though not Youtube pro arranged, bedding. While too many deer, or even "a lot" (though a relative term) can counteract mature buck presence or movement...Im trying to open a top notch steakhouse and hotel that also lets ladies drink free. The corner gin mill and McDonalds have their place and hoping my variation is the draw. Can, and will by nature, be changing things as needed. In all actuality it is just stupid thick with some trails, plots and no human presence.
 
Native nailed it when he said where he lives, “the whole world hunts like an outfitter”. Yes he did (sadly).

Swampcat, your place does sound very different than most and (oddly) somewhat similar to this Ohio property other than most of the mature woods are wide open but the topography dictates bedding. NO real food around other than those mature woods which are all dropping acorns.

Where I live and hunt a bunch in wNY the chase and seeking phases are so subdued because of the deer density and the b:d ration being 1:5 or maybe 15. I have seen 50+ in a beanfield and less than 5 had antlers and they were al small ones at that. Big guys who breed walk 10 feet to the next doe and that is compounded by our modern (2buck) firearm season starting 11/15 and running a month with ML until 1/1 and this is the land of the lawless. Back to the "whole world hunts...."

I genuinely do not know how the deer in this portion of Ohio hunt but have heard from a number of smart sources that chase phase has them going far and wide. Suspecting this is due to the lesser population density. Also have heard the corn piles are everywhere so inconsistency is compounded. Full circle to my layout- this is why i want plots and ample, though not Youtube pro arranged, bedding. While too many deer, or even "a lot" (though a relative term) can counteract mature buck presence or movement...Im trying to open a top notch steakhouse and hotel that also lets ladies drink free. The corner gin mill and McDonalds have their place and hoping my variation is the draw. Can, and will by nature, be changing things as needed. In all actuality it is just stupid thick with some trails, plots and no human presence.
Most of the mature woods around my area are thick. I see shows all the time, folks hunting in Iowa, Illinois, Ohio - I would call them cattle grazed woodlands. Mature buck wouldnt be caught during the rut with a hot doe at night in those open woods down here
 
Very very different area where I am in SE Kansas lots of cattle pasture with open woods because of cattle grazing plenty of ag fields intermixed and a few native tall grass prairie fields still around. We do have some dense heavy growth areas but they are not everywhere.
 
It’s amazing, and assuring in the same regard, how different things are regionally but the problems/challenges are respectively.
 
It’s amazing, and assuring in the same regard, how different things are regionally but the problems/challenges are respectively.
True but I feel like midwest land is harder to keep deer alive without the help of neighbors. As opposed to Deep South most tracts are sub 500 acres therefore increasing the chances of overlap. Additionally deer are just way more visible in that landscape. Between hardwood dominate closed canopy forest and tons of broken ag fields with high visibility, deer just don’t have a lot to hide in.
 
True but I feel like midwest land is harder to keep deer alive without the help of neighbors. As opposed to Deep South most tracts are sub 500 acres therefore increasing the chances of overlap. Additionally deer are just way more visible in that landscape. Between hardwood dominate closed canopy forest and tons of broken ag fields with high visibility, deer just don’t have a lot to hide in.
I agree 100%, that's why you find the biggest deer (generally speaking) in areas with topographical features. My 4 acre food plot in WI can't be seen from anywhere but the air, the bluffs and tilted fields are key in the age progression of bucks.
 
With the help of a forum member I ended up getting factual intel that shed some positive light on things...they're idiots but do not have the stakehold or as good of a position as I feared.
 
True but I feel like midwest land is harder to keep deer alive without the help of neighbors. As opposed to Deep South most tracts are sub 500 acres therefore increasing the chances of overlap. Additionally deer are just way more visible in that landscape. Between hardwood dominate closed canopy forest and tons of broken ag fields with high visibility, deer just don’t have a lot to hide in.
The big difference, there might be less cover in the midwest - but I dont think many of those states have 60 days of modern gun - with dogs running.
 
The big difference, there might be less cover in the midwest - but I dont think many of those states have 60 days of modern gun - with dogs running.

Lordy that sounds awful.
 
Lordy that sounds awful.
It challenges you for sure. But, we still have quite a few deer. I sometimes think what would it be like if we only had a two week season - you might not be able to drive down the road without hitting one. Some areas are even worse with three month mg seasons.
 
I'm late to the conversation. Your situation is similar to mine but mine just turned 180 degrees, so a miracle could happen for you too.

We have an 80 and our goal it to shoot 4 plus year old bucks. It is surrounded by brown it down to the s and w and the n and e is 375 acres river bluff land, prime habitat. The 375 acres has been leased by an outfitter. since 2010. His hunters would take 8 to 15 bucks each season, bonus doe tags and unlimited antlerless tags into middle of January resulted in plummeting deer numbers. Most of the hunters were from the east coast states and southeast states. A 1 or 2 year old 4x4 was a monster to them compared to what they would see back home.

When I initially realized how they were piss pounding the population I wanted to kill every buck and make it horrible hunting so that hunters wouldn't want to come there. Dumb idea and glad I had some good advice given to me. "Don't worry about what you can't control" So I have improved sanctuary, plots, and habitat in general. They continued to piss pound the lease but we have been killing at least one of our target bucks the past 7 years. This year we took 2, a 4 and a 5 year old. Our place is a destination in winter for deer for cover and food and it seems that we always kept new mature deer in the area that showed up, into the next year. This post season survey had 3 3 year olds and one 4 yo survive. The lease (only) took 8 bucks this year. They complained to the landowner about the lack of deer on the property. They truly have no connection to the land, only want to take.

Miracle time, the outfitter lost his lease this spring and the landowner's 2 sons are going to hunt it. They, along with property owners that connect to the 375 acres contacted me to set up a coop to help mature deer numbers grow. I'm looking forward to where this goes.

I personally couldn't leave this 80 as I have put so much into it and have an attachment to it. The quoted advice above helped me deal with the situation and I figured it was just the way it was going to be but expectantly a huge blessing was bestowed upon us.
 
Sorry to flood the forum but wanted to update this one.

Hes been stacking 2yos, most of which i had all summer and early fall. Nothing worth a darn for him, or showing up for me. Had hoped for some infill at least. Hes doing this on a property that is leased, having the outfitter service under a different name. Blew him in on that and hoping this pans out....but id suspect hes a dozen young deer in on a 275ac chunk for 23 already with gun season coming next week.
 
Don’t worry mine still sucks too. I’m holding my breath till next Sunday. That’s when rifle season ends and pretty much his outfitting business slows considerably.
 
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