What to do if there is an outfitter close to your slice of heaven??

[Garrett S]

Will keep this short and sweet for a few reasons…..

Let’s just say there is an outfitter runs hunts on a property close to yours. It’s bait state, that is his primary tactic and has massive piles of corn 8-9months of the year. Stands and access aren’t savvy, nor are the hunters whom almost always take young bucks during chase phase and the short gun seasons. For the most part, they never take any mature deer, taking what the vast majority do locals would pass. They appear to do their own legal thing on a much bigger piece of ground though you’d suspect they apply ample pressure to the neighborhood.

What would your thoughts be?
-Leave the area
-Wait for clients to stop paying and shooting subpar deer
-out bait the place (if feasible)
-Never bait
-plant food plots because he doesn’t any
-Rarely hunt what you have access too
-cry and suck your thumb
- something else?

 

[Catscratch]

Clients never stop paying and shooting subpar deer.
You can try several of those methods but few are likely to work. If they're slob hunters you might be well off planting plots and baiting... AND adopting very low pressure hunting practices.

 

[T-Max]

You described my situation to a T. I am (as of this year) planting a 3.5 acre food plot, running 2 deer feeders, and saving money to buy the place. Nothing else you can do. The best thing I have going is they have to come across my place to get from their beds to his corn. I have now put tons of food between the two places. We’ll see what happens


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[Mortenson]

Agree with the prior responses. Our "outfitter" is big brother sniping over corn piles for months. A little different but a little the same. More food plots and more untouched sanctuary ground is all I can do. I prob do a fair amount of the crying option also.

Edit to say IL public land hunting is a thorn in my side as well. May as well be an outfitter.

 

[356]

What acreage is the outfitter running, and what acreage are you and your immediate neighbors running. Any ag or large-scale food plotters in the area?

As CWD concerns escalate, states that allow baiting are becoming fewer. Time may eliminate that option for your outfitting neighbor.

 

[SD51555]

Overharvesting cures overharvesting. That's what happened in my area. I wasn't there when it happened, but there were the days when vehicles would pull piles of deer out on snowmobile trailers. Then the perfect storm of overharvest, winter, and wolves ended that practice. There were many years after where people didn't see deer and they left the area. It's busy again now, but success has dropped off considerably. I used to carry a clicker counter in my pocket to count shots heard the first two days. Many of those days I never logged 5 shots a day.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Hey are you spying on me? I literally share over a mile with a worthless outfitter. Dude is a cancer on the area. What do you do? Got me. Pulling for a positive cwd test in the area so baiting is outlawed. Wont stop the locals but may stop the outfitter since he would lose his license. It’s a start but other than that I just hope and pray which is a stupid strategy I know.

 

[hillrunner]

If getting control of that property is not an option, I'd leave the area. Each of us gets only so many deer seasons in this life. I'm not wasting them on a situation like that.
Your goals may be far different than mine and you may be ok hunting whatever is left over. However, if it's me in your shoes, I'd be shopping for a new area.

 

[Tree Spud]

Whether it is a guide or neighbors that shoot everything, we all have neighboring properties that over harvest young bucks or have a brown is down metallity.

I have always learned to use the neighbors tactics to my advantage. If they are bringing people out to their stand (very disruptive) be in your stand before they are to catch bumped deer. If they baiting excessively, the deer still have to bed so look to have stands to intercept them.

Remember, too much pressure has a negative effect especially on mature bucks. Figure out how to take advantage of that.

Unless you are ready to sell and find a new property, and they are hunting legally, learn to ignore them and enjoy your property. That's what you bought it for.

 

[356]

Another thought: Your comment, "they never take any mature deer" has me thinking. If the hunting pressure is hard, the deer might find your place more attractive during daylight hours. The fact they are shooting smaller deer may mean the big ones are going to your property.

Here is a link to one of many articles that show the impact of hunting pressure. If possible, use the outfitter to your benefit.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

My neighbor, who also borders dickwad outfitter, has taken a 211 and 5 160 plus since 2013 off their property. While it’s not ideal by any stretch, it’s also not the end of any chance of a mature buck. The three best deer I had consistently on camera last year all made it through deer season at least.

 

[Mortenson]

If getting control of that property is not an option, I'd leave the area. Each of us gets only so many deer seasons in this life. I'm not wasting them on a situation like that.
Your goals may be far different than mine and you may be ok hunting whatever is left over. However, if it's me in your shoes, I'd be shopping for a new area.

I always read every word hillrunner says. That said, many folks could take those limited deer seasons and spend them wherever they want, via trips, outfitters, etc. Many of the guys here want great hunting but also weigh the costs of having the home lifetime farm. I know Garrett and Howbowthemdawgs are on new properties and rightfully consider staying or moving. I'd only suggest to stay for a handful of years (3-5?) to give it a chance. You might be surprised that your goals can change. Maybe they can't! Only you know the liklihood of any of those deer slipping through the cracks and giving you a chance. We could easily sell and upgrade not far away (into better counties) but have no plans to as of now. Like hillrunner said, goals are different. And like the wise Tree Spud said, every area has the same problems. If you can't adjust, you'll be bouncing around forever, always second guessing. Perhaps spend hours per week or hire a realtor to find the magical property that borders a refuge. They exist. Make a realtor go to work for you.

Learn your goals. I've never shot a booner but really want one. Adjusting my priorities (young kids) and now I'm geared up for hunting a buck that should be 5.5 and score 150ish but I want him as much as a booner. If my son can shoot him this fall I'd call it a greater feat than my bagging a booner.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I always read every world hillrunner says. That said, many folks could take those limited deer seasons and spend them wherever they want, via trips, outfitters, etc. Many of the guys here want great hunting but also weigh the costs of having the home lifetime farm. I know Garrett and Howbowthemdawgs are on new properties and rightfully consider staying or moving. I'd only suggest to stay for a handful of years (3-5?) to give it a chance. You might be surprised that your goals can change. Maybe they can't! Only you know the liklihood of any of those deer slipping through the cracks and giving you a chance. We could easily sell and upgrade not far away (into better counties) but have no plans to as of now. Like hillrunner said, goals are different. And like the wise Tree Spud said, every area has the same problems. If you can't adjust, you'll be bouncing around forever, always second guessing. Perhaps spend hours per week or hire a realtor to find the magical property that borders a refuge. They exist. Make a realtor go to work for you.

Learn your goals. I've never shot a booner but really want one. Adjusting my priorities (young kids) and now I'm geared up for hunting a buck that should be 5.5 and score 150ish but I want him as much as a booner. If my son can shoot him this fall I'd call it a greater feat than my bagging a booner.

Agree totally. 3-5 years is my window but one other thing I learned is finding good properties is hard. I look online almost every day just for fun, all across the country. With the flaws my place has I still wouldn’t trade with 95% of the properties I see listed. So if I were to just throw up my hands and sell I may be a) settling or b) sitting on my hands for a few years. For right now i will take my chances with what I have. Not to mention I’ve acquired so much “crap” that moving is a pain in the butt. I want next move to be last move and with that my budget needs to increase!

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I always read every word hillrunner says. That said, many folks could take those limited deer seasons and spend them wherever they want, via trips, outfitters, etc. Many of the guys here want great hunting but also weigh the costs of having the home lifetime farm. I know Garrett and Howbowthemdawgs are on new properties and rightfully consider staying or moving. I'd only suggest to stay for a handful of years (3-5?) to give it a chance. You might be surprised that your goals can change. Maybe they can't! Only you know the liklihood of any of those deer slipping through the cracks and giving you a chance. We could easily sell and upgrade not far away (into better counties) but have no plans to as of now. Like hillrunner said, goals are different. And like the wise Tree Spud said, every area has the same problems. If you can't adjust, you'll be bouncing around forever, always second guessing. Perhaps spend hours per week or hire a realtor to find the magical property that borders a refuge. They exist. Make a realtor go to work for you.

Learn your goals. I've never shot a booner but really want one. Adjusting my priorities (young kids) and now I'm geared up for hunting a buck that should be 5.5 and score 150ish but I want him as much as a booner. If my son can shoot him this fall I'd call it a greater feat than my bagging a booner.

Great post. I’m pretty pessimistic about finding a realtor to “go work for me” though. Maybe my pessimism is misplaced and it just takes a special deal with a realtor to sweeten the pot. But it seems like any realtor with an eye for something like that (say a whitetail properties guy) likely already has a number of much bigger fish in their phone book that are going to get a call first. I’ve looked at quite a few properties and talked to various rec land agents at showings, seems like they are busy enough without having to look for extra work. The whitetail properties guy I signed with didn’t seem to want to even write an offer for me on the land I bought but at least let me out of our agreement so my buddy could write the offer.

 

[SD51555]

Whether it is a guide or neighbors that shoot everything, we all have neighboring properties that over harvest young bucks or have a brown is down metallity.

I have always learned to use the neighbors tactics to my advantage. If they are bringing people out to their stand (very disruptive) be in your stand before they are to catch bumped deer. If they baiting excessively, the deer still have to bed so look to have stands to intercept them.

Remember, too much pressure has a negative effect especially on mature bucks. Figure out how to take advantage of that.

Unless you are ready to sell and find a new property, and they are hunting legally, learn to ignore them and enjoy your property. That's what you bought it for.

I used to get real cranky around mid October when it was perfect weather to be bow hunting. I finally got around to scouting hundreds of acres of public land, figured out the deer routes, set up places to hunt from the ground, trimmed out a modest shooting lane, etc.

When it came time to hunt, the 3 weeks before gun season, every part time yahoo from out of town would come up and blow up every inch of public land, run every trail with dogs, wheelers, kids and shotguns. They’d be running mowers, saws, generators, boomboxes, sight in rifles and the whole bit. There’s not a place to find a natural hunt once all that BS starts.

Then I learned while they were doing that, they were driving every deer within 3/4 mile of me right to my place. I think the deer kept running and walking until they got to my 40 and realized there was no intrusion of any kind, tons of food, cover, and water. And then they stay. So I just hunt my place now, and it’s a whole lot more fun.


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[Wind Gypsy]

I think there’s more intrusion on my parents 170 acres than a lot of the public that surrounds it

 

[Mtyhunter]

Sounds like everyone is having similar issues, and there's some great advice!
Landowners started leasing out the land surrounding my 800 acre lease a few years ago. A boundary walk revealed a couple of ladder stands freshly mounted 10 yds off our fence, facing our property. Heard rifle shots during muzzle season. Fully auto fire during rifle season. Hear their cherry bomb exhaust truck doing 90 down the dirt roads 30 minutes after first light. Empty bags of corn in the ditches. Etc etc
Caused me to get with my landowner, and figure out who was hunting around me. Found and talked to 6 guys, who surprisingly were good stewards/hunters. They all were concerned w/ exactly the same issues i was, and some thought it was coming from my lease!
Eventually 3 of us met with the landowner, and he heard us out, and agreed to not renew their lease. The other two guys i was with are leasing it this year. Point is, i thought the problem was way bigger, but figured out it was only a couple of people. Best thing is, got to know the other hunters in my area, which I had never done before. They're great guys with the same visions, and we've all agreed to share info to better our hunting. Interestingly enough, found out we had all quit putting corn out for deer the last 2 years, because of the pig attraction, and it worked for everyone.
Now, if I can figure out how to keep fishing guides from cutting me off on a drift, or pulling their 40hp jet boats in the same hole I'm wading trying to catch trout out of, life would be good!

 

[gjs4]

As cheesy as it sounds, and putting first things first, THANK YOU for the replies. After the initial post things got "worse" as i received a pic of this guy with a (literal) truck load of corn. I crashed hard...literally almost cried as despite only being there 7 months now; It got a chit ton of my time, effort and finances tied up.....and i went "whoa is me" and threw a pity party. Bad place my friends.....but we are on to a more adult outlook based on facts and "deer problems" are far easier than "big problems", right?

So a few replies- I have 75, They have 7 and appear to be leasing (to which baiting and outfitting are a "no-no" as well) OR claiming a lease as theirs 275. It is former power company property and I have spent the better portion of a day trying to get in contact with the Property Management Company to no avail. PO Box is it and that was with pulling some strings/favors. No names, phone numbers , etc to validate. When i purchased mine, a 15 ac portion of mine, and some of the border of this place were half arse posted (paper signs, no names, not on lines, so on and so forth). Not done digging but its not going well. If anyone has intel (beyond an internet search, tax folks or easy conversation) related to Franklin RE in OH, please let me know.

No food plots nearby, ag is about a mile away in any direction. I have 4-6+ ac of plots depending on what I plant. There are a couple local neighbors with spinners in their back yards. Know the area on a 10sqmi level has put up some mega deer and has giants harvested consistently....cant say anything on the 1sqmi.

I dont do social media but have visited their page. and 90% of their kills are 2yos. Lots youth hunts and out of staters (to which they are themselves...then again so am I...for now). Would guess they killed 8-10 bucks last year with maybe two of them being lousy three YOs. I didnt have cams up long but none of them were recognizable either. It seems to be all bait pile, ladders, guns and quad rides in. Not my style at all.

I have hunted a bunch of OH public and agree that most folks would walk through prime public to trespass on garbage private.

A lot of my discouragement stems from my impatience with seeing return on investment and discouragement for not having much deer activity on the two active cell cams there. Every bit of that is a bad choice I am making- trusting cams as reality (let alone two), being ansty, expecting instant results, caring about early summer bucks, thinking i know a piece that i dont, and some other dumb choices. Mind you this the third piece I have owned in my life, hunted all over but it was the most invested and defaulted to great bucks everywhere because its the midwest. My mind wanted to sell it yesterday.

Some of the pressure is my wife likes the area ALOT and this will be the closest common denominator bond for a non-hunting wife and her deer obsessed husband to have at the same time we are empty nesting. So the thought of building is raging and I know it is a long term commitment then. I also love scrolling the RE apps looking at properties and I havent seen much that tickles my fancy especially knowing that "drive down and be disappointed" game and related listing markers.

 

[gjs4]

Breaking the reply down to two parts.

As long as there are neighbors there will be neighbor issues. If our neighbors hunt....those issues will be worse. Our family's farm in NY has a hunt club next store on an old rail bed- 110ft wide by 1.5mi long. Need I say more? Its part of why i have dreamed of ground outside of NY....just to find out the clover isnt always greener in the midwest.

For the posters that said we are in similar situations- I wil be PMing you. Friendship, prayer, drinking group..... whatever it may be,

For the guys dealing with sharpshooters and a disease that may or may not be bad there; Godspeed. That is awful. and I am sorry to hear that.

As for Deer Realtors.... after dealing with a bunch of them across the us I will say this- The vast majority I have spoken to or worked within in NY, a couple in KY and number in OH arent good at hunting, kinship or being a realtor. Not impressed. I bought this place through a non deer avenue and the deer guys tried to bump my accepted purchase out. I have spoke with Jake Hofer, the LandMan and one or to decent folks from the buck logo'd sign brigade and was thankful but, again, most are a joke in my opinion per my experience.

As of todays plan- let it ride for now. Fall/Winter plots and more cams in Mid-August . Maybe some scattered corn but think i will avoid feeders and yellow piles and not going in until i have a reason to be or the end of October shows up.

Thank you all for your replies, great insight and opinions thus far.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Breaking the reply down to two parts.

As long as there are neighbors there will be neighbor issues. If our neighbors hunt....those issues will be worse. Our family's farm in NY has a hunt club next store on an old rail bed- 110ft wide by 1.5mi long. Need I say more? Its part of why i have dreamed of ground outside of NY....just to find out the clover isnt always greener in the midwest.

For the posters that said we are in similar situations- I wil be PMing you. Friendship, prayer, drinking group..... whatever it may be,

For the guys dealing with sharpshooters and a disease that may or may not be bad there; Godspeed. That is awful. and I am sorry to hear that.

As for Deer Realtors.... after dealing with a bunch of them across the us I will say this- The vast majority I have spoken to or worked within in NY, a couple in KY and number in OH arent good at hunting, kinship or being a realtor. Not impressed. I bought this place through a non deer avenue and the deer guys tried to bump my accepted purchase out. I have spoke with Jake Hofer, the LandMan and one or to decent folks from the buck logo'd sign brigade and was thankful but, again, most are a joke in my opinion per my experience.

As of todays plan- let it ride for now. Fall/Winter plots and more cams in Mid-August . Maybe some scattered corn but think i will avoid feeders and yellow piles and not going in until i have a reason to be or the end of October shows up.

Thank you all for your replies, great insight and opinions thus far.

Hey I hear ya on the agents. My fault for trusting those guys but I literally stood on the porch of my place before making an offer and point blank said “are any of the neighbors outfitters?” He said why? I told them I hate them and don’t want to be next to one to which he responded no don’t think so…he’s a local who knew good and well what was up. Had a buddy standing with me who witnessed the conversation and we were both shocked when we found out the truth. Oh well life lesson…never ever never never trust a real estate agent.