What is the mental dynamic involved

[sandbur]

Once CWD hits an area, it looks to me like the DNR’s want as few deer and as few mature deer as they can get.

I don’t know what the answer is with cwd.


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[Bill]

Interesting thread. I honestly expected a lot more on a site like this to be in the "big buck" crowd.

I personally fall into the "spend more than I should both financially and time wise on whitetails/ whitetail habitat. I just cannot get enough of it. I enjoy watching deer be deer as much or more than actually hunting. I'm to the point now where I'm fine with passing deer most would shoot. I love developing that relationship with certain animals from year to year. My archery deer was a 3 year relationship that was more bittersweet when it came to an end after 170+ hrs in the stand this year. It's a weird feeling to not just be happy when you get the buck you've been after for that long. I honestly felt a deep sadness that it was over. I'd never see that deer from the stand again, Never wake up to pictures of him again etc etc.

I do get a little upset when my neighbor shoots a 2.5yr 5x5 with tons of potential. Not only have I been watching that deer for at least a year, I know that they have never saw that deer before. They don't even know him! Just part of the game though as long as its legal.

I know that feeling. Killed one in 2018 that was years long conquest. He hasn’t been replaced yet. I’ve other deer but not the one that was my nemesis for so long. He walked by a trail cam moments before I shot. It was weird knowing that was the last pic ever….

 

[SwampCat]

My son killed one last weekend we have hunted for three seasons. It sure left a hollow feeling. I still half way expect to see him when new pics show up.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Well I did my part this gun season and let all the deer go, the neighbors took them all out. Small, doe, fawns, all of them.

 

[Bill Loser]

That perspective goes completely against the natural selection evolution process. If you severely impact and limit the age structure and keep deer from getting to 3.5 and older, you are removing the strongest animals from the genetic pool.

Everything you state that is needed is already there. People get so myopic thinking that habitat mgmt is the solution. I'm not saying habitat mgmt is bad, sometimes it does more harm than good.

I hunt northern Alberta Canada in the deep bush non-agriculture land. There are no grain fields, fruit sources, etc. The primary food sources are browse and lichen (moss that hangs from trees). The average field dressed, gutted weight of the deer we take up there is is 240-260 lbs. These deer are a minimum of 4.5-5.5 years old and 6.5-8.5 yo are not unusual.

Hard to argue with Darwin ... history has proven him right.

nat·u·ral se·lec·tion
/ˈnaCH(ə)rəl səˈlekSHən/

noun BIOLOGY
the process whereby organisms better adapted to their environment tend to survive and produce more offspring. The theory of its action was first fully expounded by Charles Darwin and is now believed to be the main process that brings about evolution.

So the deer in canada wouldnt benefit from a food plot or some fruit trees? No where did i say anything was needed just helped. And it is benificial to the herd, if it wasnt none of us would do it.
Me or anyone not passing up a 2 year old buck every couple years is doing absolutely nothing to the structure of the herd. There are still old bucks, young bucks and all sorts in between. Sure maybe the one i shoot mat have become that all time most asinine moniker, a TOAD. But the one that didnt get killed might also, whats the difference?
Im not trying to change your mind, what gets me is the insinuating that anyone who doesnt only hunt what you consider trophies is somehow less of a hunter.

 

[Kooch]

I love it when all you girls get your panties in a wad.


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[Tree Spud]

Im not trying to change your mind, what gets me is the insinuating that anyone who doesnt only hunt what you consider trophies is somehow less of a hunter.

You are putting words in my mouth, nowhere did I say someone was less of a hunter because of the size of a trophy. I actually stated a trophy could be 130-160", all dependent on herd structure, genetics, age class, etc. Whatever someone shoots and how they classify as a trophy is cool with me.

I know it's hard to adjust to a different view point especially when science challenges the paradigm of opinion.

Enjoy your hunt, good luck ... Peace.

 

[Mortenson]

I love it when all you girls get your panties in a wad.


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Most of us are just frustrated. Rut is coming to an end which marks another season of not getting our trophy. lol

 

[Bill Loser]

You are putting words in my mouth, nowhere did I say someone was less of a hunter because of the size of a trophy. I actually stated a trophy could be 130-160", all dependent on herd structure, genetics, age class, etc. Whatever someone shoots and how they classify as a trophy is cool with me.

I know it's hard to adjust to a different view point especially when science challenges the paradigm of opinion.

Enjoy your hunt, good luck ... Peace.

Its not what is said but how its worded. Yours are only opinions also, you just believe they are not.
What science? Is there science somewhere that says food plots and supplemental feeding is not benificial?
Is there science that says if i shoot a 2 yearold buck the deer herd will be destroyed? Show it to me please.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

You are putting words in my mouth, nowhere did I say someone was less of a hunter because of the size of a trophy. I actually stated a trophy could be 130-160", all dependent on herd structure, genetics, age class, etc. Whatever someone shoots and how they classify as a trophy is cool with me.

I know it's hard to adjust to a different view point especially when science challenges the paradigm of opinion.

Enjoy your hunt, good luck ... Peace.

Hell, on my 40 in central MN I'm not sure I even have a picture of a 130 buck. The population is impacted primarily by hunter harvest and not so much severe winters, lack of habitat, food, and wolf/bear predation like my parents place in northern MN (which actually has better age class distribution because it's harder to hunt). The pic below is the only buck that's pushing that class and also the only one I'm confident is at least 3 YO. I'd be quite happy to take a buck like him on this property. Only got his pic once. He was just a passer through after he probably had all the does in his primary range covered. I haven't stepped foot or even let wind blow my scent into the central 70% of my property (Pretty good timber cover with a small river running through) since August. There's plenty of deer, habitat, and nutrition in this area for better but to have basically no bucks make it past 2 is sad. That's where the hope for things to get better comes from.

I'm not angry at any of my neighbors for shooting 2 YO deer. They aren't "my deer", they are everyone's deer and they are all good neighbors far as I'm concerned. I'm hopeful that eventually some neighbors and I can get to the point where we mutually agree it would be cool to see as many 3.5 YOs as we're currently seeing 2.5 YOs. The important part - IMO that goal is reasonably achievable in this area WITHOUT a long term reduction in hunter success rates or telling kids they shouldn't shoot that forky. Maybe 2 years of a slightly lower success rates or a handful of people just putting a tag on a doe instead of a 1-2 YO buck would make a significant difference IMO.

 

[Bill]

Most of us are just frustrated. Rut is coming to an end which marks another season of not getting our trophy. lol

I’ve found hunting the rut is the most useless time to hunt deer. The magazines and TV make us think it’s magical and bucks are running everywhere trying to find a hot doe. Don’t get me wrong I’ve seen some amazing things while hunting the rut but in reality bucks are locked down in a 1/4 acre breading and fending off other bucks. If your stand is in that 1/4 acre you’ll blow them out getting there. If it’s not, you won’t see them. IMO it’s much easier to hunt a buck when he is in his right mind

 

[bwoods11]

Hell, on my 40 in central MN I'm not sure I even have a picture of a 130 buck. The population is impacted primarily by hunter harvest and so much severe winters, lack of habitat, food, and wolf/bear predation like my parents place in northern MN (which actually has better age class distribution because it's harder to hunt). The pic below is the only buck that might be that class and also the only one I'm confident is at least 3 YO. I'd be quite happy to take a buck like him on this property. Only got his pic once. He was just a passer through after he probably had all the does in his primary range covered. I haven't stepped foot or even let wind blow my scent into the central 70% of my property (Pretty good timber cover with a small river running through) since August. That's where the hope for things to get better comes from. There's plenty of deer, habitat, and nutrition in this area for better but to have basically no bucks make it past 2 is sad.

I'm not angry at any of my neighbors for shooting 2 YO deer. They aren't "my deer", they are our deer and they are all good neighbors far as I'm concerned. I'm hopeful that eventually some neighbors and I can get to the point where we mutually agree it would be cool to see as many 3.5 YOs as we're currently seeing 2.5 YOs. The important part - IMO that goal is reasonably achievable in this area WITHOUT a long term reduction in hunter success rates or telling kids they shouldn't shoot that forky. Maybe 2 years of a slightly lower success rates or a handful of people just putting a tag on a doe instead of a 1-2 YO buck would make a significant difference IMO.
View attachment 47470

There’s too many hunters in Minnesota. That’s why it’s difficult to get bucks to survive beyond 2.5 years old.

Anyone that says we have a lack of hunters is not assessing the entire picture ?? Maybe in a few remote areas? There’s plenty of orange in the areas that I hunt, which is multiple zones. Public land can be a zoo .

Timing of the gun season, and long seasons simply add up to difficult hunting. It’s not that we don’t have pockets of deer and some very nice bucks , but the odds are stacked against buck survival in Minnesota!

The more acres of private land you have the odds increase.

 

[PrairieShadow]

I’ve found hunting the rut is the most useless time to hunt deer. The magazines and TV make us think it’s magical and bucks are running everywhere trying to find a hot doe. Don’t get me wrong I’ve seen some amazing things while hunting the rut but in reality bucks are locked down in a 1/4 acre breading and fending off other bucks. If your stand is in that 1/4 acre you’ll blow them out getting there. If it’s not, you won’t see them. IMO it’s much easier to hunt a buck when he is in his right mind

I've watch the dominant buck at my place for 2 days now. He hasn't moved but 100yds in those 48ish hrs. Has 2 doe with him. Smaller bucks cruising all over the place. He's cool hand luke when those other bucks approach him and his does. He keeps himself between the does and the intruder but never showing any aggression so far. They know better than to test him. A true Warrior. Next year I'll be putting the hours in to get him. For now I'll just sit back in the porch with my coffee and enjoy the show.

 

[Mortenson]

I've watch the dominant buck at my place for 2 days now. He hasn't moved but 100yds in those 48ish hrs. Has 2 doe with him. Smaller bucks cruising all over the place. He's cool hand luke when those other bucks approach him and his does. He keeps himself between the does and the intruder but never showing any aggression so far. They know better than to test him. A true Warrior. Next year I'll be putting the hours in to get him. For now I'll just sit back in the porch with my coffee and enjoy the show.

A couple yrs ago I had a 200 incher bedded with a doe at 35 yards for a few hrs. A younger but heavier bodied 8 pointer walked up to them and the big 1 just stood up and looked at the 8. He turned and walked away. All it took was a look. It was awesome to watch.

 

[SwampCat]

I’ve found hunting the rut is the most useless time to hunt deer. The magazines and TV make us think it’s magical and bucks are running everywhere trying to find a hot doe. Don’t get me wrong I’ve seen some amazing things while hunting the rut but in reality bucks are locked down in a 1/4 acre breading and fending off other bucks. If your stand is in that 1/4 acre you’ll blow them out getting there. If it’s not, you won’t see them. IMO it’s much easier to hunt a buck when he is in his right mind

Couldnt agree more. Of the dozen bucks on my wall, two were killed during our primary rut period Nov 1 - Thanksgiving, one killed early Oct, and the rest killed in December. I have a lot of food. I think the bucks after rut are more pattern-able as they are trying to take in calories post rut.

 

[PrairieShadow]

A couple yrs ago I had a 200 incher bedded with a doe at 35 yards for a few hrs. A younger but heavier bodied 8 pointer walked up to them and the big 1 just stood up and looked at the 8. He turned and walked away. All it took was a look. It was awesome to watch.

mostly what this guy is doing. Parallels the younger buck for a few steps and the younger one just moves on. Amazing to watch deer be deer

If this guy was 200" I wouldn't be watching though.

 

[hillrunner]

I’ve found hunting the rut is the most useless time to hunt deer. The magazines and TV make us think it’s magical and bucks are running everywhere trying to find a hot doe. Don’t get me wrong I’ve seen some amazing things while hunting the rut but in reality bucks are locked down in a 1/4 acre breading and fending off other bucks. If your stand is in that 1/4 acre you’ll blow them out getting there. If it’s not, you won’t see them. IMO it’s much easier to hunt a buck when he is in his right mind

I disagree, I've had great luck for many years targeting specific mature (5+) bucks during the rut. More time on their feet in daylight makes them vulnerable and they don't stray as far from core areas as most people think. You have to hunt where they are though, sitting on food plots and transition areas are not the ticket.

 

[Bill]

I disagree, I've had great luck for many years targeting specific mature (5+) bucks during the rut. More time on their feet in daylight makes them vulnerable and they don't stray as far from core areas as most people think. You have to hunt where they are though, sitting on food plots and transition areas are not the ticket.

Every place is a bit different. My deer don’t stay put. North west dot is where a good 4 year old spent most of the summer and early fall. This track is trail cam pics in a 24 hour period when the rut started. My neighbors and I share cam pics and agreed to let him walk this year. I’m sure he didn’t walk in straight lines. Also haven’t seen him in two weeks. He’s probably dead, should have stayed home…

 

[hillrunner]

Every place is a bit different. My deer don’t stay put. North west dot is where a good 4 year old spent most of the summer and early fall. This track is trail cam pics in a 24 hour period when the rut started. My neighbors and I share cam pics and agreed to let him walk this year. I’m sure he didn’t walk in straight lines. Also haven’t seen him in two weeks. He’s probably dead, should have stayed home…

View attachment 47474

I see some of that, just a lot less than most people think. Just because a buck takes a long walk or two doesn't mean he doesn't spend the majority of the rut chasing and breeding the does in his core area. The sucky part of that extended walk is they are vulnerable to be killed. We lost a nice 4 year old that way a week ago. I had passed him a couple times and I figured he was safe but he wandered away from his usual area and a friend of a neighbor got him. We can't help that but it didn't change the fact that I could have killed him in his core area multiple times in November.

I like October and I like late season if the weather is rough. My success in November with my bow is 10 times my success in the other times though, and that includes with a gun in my hand.

 

[SwampCat]

Every place is a bit different. My deer don’t stay put. North west dot is where a good 4 year old spent most of the summer and early fall. This track is trail cam pics in a 24 hour period when the rut started. My neighbors and I share cam pics and agreed to let him walk this year. I’m sure he didn’t walk in straight lines. Also haven’t seen him in two weeks. He’s probably dead, should have stayed home…

View attachment 47474

This is also exactly what I see. My two biggest bucks were nightly visitors on one camera from aug through mid oct. I should have killed one mid oct but screwed the pooch on that one. End of oct, one disappears and the other starts showing up on an additional camera. Neighbor picks up the buck that disappears on one of his cameras and the deer is regular as clockwork and he kills him first hunt he makes. Early nov, the other buck is helter skelter, all over the place on me and two neighbors. My son kills him chasing a doe mid nov in an area I have never, in 3 yrs, got a picture of this buck. I have one other shooter that is just all over - comes and goes - sometimes gone for a week. Finally seems to be settling down just a little bit - on food. He seems to be getting a little pattern able - but may just let him be this year if he makes it past the neighbors over the next two weeks.