What Broadleaf Herbicide Besides 24D?

[yoderjac]

I just ordered some interline. I had hoped to get some this spring but couldn't find it in-stock anywhere. Keystone now has it. Of course it is 2.5X what I paid last year from Rural King. Rural King no longer ships it. No store within 100 miles has it but I noticed Rural Kings price this year is the same as I'm paying from Keystone.

 

[SwampCat]

Keystone told me there is zero wait period required and mentioned that was a benefit over 24D.


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Told me the exact opposite

 

[FarmerDan]

The whole debate about triclopyr? It's a forestry use herbicide and it's contained in small amounts in turf herbicides. I've not seen everything in my life, but I've never seen or read anything where it's recommended for ag use. Use it if you wish. The carryover and planting consequences are risks. It's persistence in the soil appears to be dependent on many factors, some known, some unknown. What Keystone said depends, I guess, on what was asked in how much detail and what was heard in response.

It's possible for this to work. The uptake by wheat appears to be a non-event but I'd say that statement applies to a post emergence application. I don't think you'll find any published research on newly seeded wheat. What does a triclopyr label say about seedling turf? That's a hint.

To 2,4-d. It's very possible to use it and eliminate any concern about drift. I'm going to leave a link. If your interested, read the section "How Drift Happens."
https://ipm-drift.cfaes.ohio-state.edu/sites/hdrm/files/imce/Overview of Drift Issues FINAL.pdf

Again, the issue is risk. This time of a different form.

 

[weekender21]

Told me the exact opposite

Interesting. I owe them a call Monday.


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[weekender21]

The whole debate about triclopyr? It's a forestry use herbicide and it's contained in small amounts in turf herbicides. I've not seen everything in my life, but I've never seen or read anything where it's recommended for ag use. Use it if you wish. The carryover and planting consequences are risks. It's persistence in the soil appears to be dependent on many factors, some known, some unknown. What Keystone said depends, I guess, on what was asked in how much detail and what was heard in response.

It's possible for this to work. The uptake by wheat appears to be a non-event but I'd say that statement applies to a post emergence application. I don't think you'll find any published research on newly seeded wheat. What does a triclopyr label say about seedling turf? That's a hint.

To 2,4-d. It's very possible to use it and eliminate any concern about drift. I'm going to leave a link. If your interested, read the section "How Drift Happens."
https://ipm-drift.cfaes.ohio-state.edu/sites/hdrm/files/imce/Overview of Drift Issues FINAL.pdf

Again, the issue is risk. This time of a different form.

I told Keystone about an issue with persisting perennial and annual weeds following 2x gly applications last fall. I asked about 24D vs. Triclopyr and they recommended Triclopyr.

They went as far as recommending 1 oz per gallon (no more than 2oz/gallon) and recommended only spraying areas of the plot that required it. The labels I’ve read online recommend application for broadleaf control.


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[homerj1]

There are two forms of Triclolpyr. T3 and T4. Neither is labeled for use on cropland.

Foodplots aren't "cropland" I suppose.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Well I pushed off my planting about a week but I’m going to give it a try anyways with oats/AW peas/beans/MRC and I’ll let ya know how ugly it is.

 

[Nightvision]

You could use a drift agent in the 2-4-d and spray earlier in the morning.

Also, I’m not very knowledgeable about it but what about Valor? Not sure of the plant back but found out it’s labeled for clover under 6” in height.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Well I pushed off my planting about a week but I’m going to give it a try anyways with oats/AW peas/beans/MRC and I’ll let ya know how ugly it is.

I drilled oats/AW peas/forage beans/clover/chicory/radish maybe 10 days after spraying with Triclopyr. I ended up a little light on the seeding rate but it took in a lot of places, germination appears to be lagging or have failed in some areas.

I'm new to this so i don't have a good baseline on what I should expect on this ground and in these conditions but if the Triclopyr hurt it I dont think it was a huge %. Growth is pretty young still (10 days yesterday) so we'll see. I'm tempted to drill rye into it this week rather than broadcast as planned after seeing how thick the duff was in some spots.

 

[omicron1792]

I drilled oats/AW peas/forage beans/clover/chicory/radish maybe 10 days after spraying with Triclopyr. I ended up a little light on the seeding rate but it took in a lot of places, germination appears to be lagging or have failed in some areas.

I'm new to this so i don't have a good baseline on what I should expect on this ground and in these conditions but if the Triclopyr hurt it I dont think it was a huge %. Growth is pretty young still (10 days yesterday) so we'll see. I'm tempted to drill rye into it this week rather than broadcast as planned after seeing how thick the duff was in some spots.
View attachment 45459

Looks good at 10 days imo. I think your idea is waiting another week or so then throwing 50-100lbs of wr on top before rain is a good one. I would be afraid drilling in again would do more harm than good.

But I’m new with my drill too

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Looks good at 10 days imo. I think your idea is waiting another week or so then throwing 50-100lbs of wr on top before rain is a good one. I would be afraid drilling in again would do more harm than good.

But I’m new with my drill too

Yeah, I know it's young enough that a lot would make it but I do make a lot of ground contact with tractor tires, coulters/openers, and end wheels while only drilling 3' wide passes.

 

[yoderjac]

I drilled oats/AW peas/forage beans/clover/chicory/radish maybe 10 days after spraying with Triclopyr. I ended up a little light on the seeding rate but it took in a lot of places, germination appears to be lagging or have failed in some areas.

I'm new to this so i don't have a good baseline on what I should expect on this ground and in these conditions but if the Triclopyr hurt it I dont think it was a huge %. Growth is pretty young still (10 days yesterday) so we'll see. I'm tempted to drill rye into it this week rather than broadcast as planned after seeing how thick the duff was in some spots.
View attachment 45459

I think you are supposed to wait about 3 weeks after that application. Not only do you have to worry about reduced germination, you also have to worry about plant deformation and irregular growth. I would give it a couple more weeks before declaring success or failure.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[FarmerDan]

Armchair analyst here. Hard to tell from a picture. And I started with a negative outlook because of the Triclopyr. I think it's very difficult to spray a field shaped like the one in your picture. Skips and overlaps are hard to avoid. Even a well conceived herbicide mix can be a problem when you can't avoid overlaps. A double or triple dose (thinking about overlaps) will badly affect germination even for labelled crops. And what Yoder said about deformation and germination. I don't know if that's the case here but have suspicions it might be. The other thing vital for good germination is good seed-to-soil contact. In the foreground I think I see a lot (or maybe just some) of furrow that didn't get closed. I don't know why. Those open channels are a good reason to broadcast rye. Free observation. You get what you pay - sometimes!

 

[Telemark]

MCPA might be worth a look if you can get it there.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Thanks for the input guys. I can't tell by looking at that pic which furrows are fully closed vs not. The soil is poorly drained and pretty stiff so it isn't uncommon for the closing wheels to not fully seal it up tight. When I was digging around in the furrows yesterday where there was poor emergence it was almost all covered up with duff. The wavy coulters did pull out and smear some dirt on the surface in spots so maybe that's what looks like open trench?

Will share what it looks like as time goes on. I'll probably broadcast 100#/acre of rye on it Thursday before our forecasted rains on Saturday.

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks for the input guys. I can't tell by looking at that pic which furrows are fully closed vs not. The soil is poorly drained and pretty stiff so it isn't uncommon for the closing wheels to not fully seal it up tight. When I was digging around in the furrows yesterday where there was poor emergence it was almost all covered up with duff. The wavy coulters did pull out and smear some dirt on the surface in spots so maybe that's what looks like open trench?

Will share what it looks like as time goes on. I'll probably broadcast 100#/acre of rye on it Thursday before our forecasted rains on Saturday.

I'd wait on adding seed until close to the recommended 3 weeks after spraying that herbicide.

 

[TreeDaddy]

"Tricyclopir helluva drug"
Rick James

bill

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I'd wait on adding seed until close to the recommended 3 weeks after spraying that herbicide.

I'm basically at 3 weeks now. Curious where you found the 3 week recommendation though? I'm sure that rye will love the clethodim i spot sprayed on grasses in the brassica side yesterday too haha.

 

[yoderjac]

I'm basically at 3 weeks now. Curious where you found the 3 week recommendation though? I'm sure that rye will love the clethodim i spot sprayed on grasses in the brassica side yesterday too haha.

I've seen it several places on labels at least for the Ester formulation. I'm not sure if there are other formulations that have different instructions.

 

[FarmerDan]

I'm basically at 3 weeks now. Curious where you found the 3 week recommendation though? I'm sure that rye will love the clethodim i spot sprayed on grasses in the brassica side yesterday too haha.

I think it's really a crap shoot. Go back up and read my initial post, the one about half life. You've got germination of your other species. I don't think I'd be too afraid to plant - anything - now. But, everything has risk.

Cleth is not a consideration.