Vitalize

[TreeDaddy]

In regards to the "no paid advertisers" or people here just to promote their product - I'm not sure I've given Al a cent of money for his products but he's always been very helpful on inquiries related to soil health and food-plotting. He's a great resource to have on these forums.

I agree

He answers the phone when you call the company and is responsive to all inquiries

bill

 

[Buckhunter10]

I agree

He answers the phone when you call the company and is responsive to all inquiries

bill

Thank you!! We try to go above and beyond. We sincerely appreciate the feedback.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

No. I’m a suburu woman thru and thru.

Tell ya what, I almost hate driving my f150 on icy roads after spending time driving our lesbo wagon with good tires.

The garbage windshields that are always cracking and electrical gremlins can get kicked in the cooter though.

 

[SD51555]

Will check your site out.

A place that has the small seed mixes to go with large seed folks can get cheap locally would be a big plus for a seed dealer to folks like us. I got some play money, but it's hard to beat a $13 bag of rye 2 miles from my house. However, the small seeds are either pretty expensive locally, or non-exsistent in numerous varieties.

I think SD has a thread on a forever perennial foodplot with vetch in it. You guys have a mix to his standards?


Also, SD what movie is the trans am in? Don't recognize it. Used to have several pontiacs as a kid in my 20's.

That’s the ending chase from Smokey and the Bandit 2.

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[Buckhunter10]

Thanks again all. As a few have hit on. Having the smaller seed mixes is why we are started offer an annual clover mix, brassicas mix, and perennial mix.

One tip I’d give if buying grains super inexpensive - make sure they are cleaned at least. I’d hate to have a pile of marestale seed mixed in with my grains.

 

[Catscratch]

Tell ya what, I almost hate driving my f150 on icy roads after spending time driving our lesbo wagon with good tires.

The garbage windshields that are always cracking and electrical gremlins can get kicked in the cooter though.

Got a friend driving a lesbo as a work junker. 2hrs a day drive time amd gobs of miles. The first error code had the shop telling him he needed a new trans. Told him to unhook the battery over night and see what happened. Code went away and the trans is fine a yr later. Soooo, point of the story is the electrical gremlins sometimes go away with a hard reset.

 

[SD51555]

I’ve been in Outbacks for 8 years now. Despite the first one being totaled twice and still running, I’ve had good luck. Towards the end of the first one, I was plowing $1,000 into each time it went to the shop and the shops were not fixing the core problem. That was wild to me. After the second time finally I said enough.

I’m 18 months into my 2024 outback now. It’s been smooth so far. When it comes to engineering, hard to beat the Japanese.


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[Westwind]

@Buckhunter10 @RGrizzzz , I agree with everything Grizz posted above and would add one more point- I’m planting with a Woods FPS84 seeder. Kind of a min till. I have been buying blends from Greencover and all the seed goes in my big seed box. As my soil improves, my seeder runs deeper and deeper. I have uneven ground. If I could put small seeds in the small seed box and grains, peas and beans in the large box I would not be planting and wasting small seeds so deep that they never germinate. Everything gets planted at an appropriate depth.

Seed companies tell you you don’t have to worry about this. The big seeds “lead the way” and break the soil for the small seeds etc. My current planting is too thin though. Rate was right but I think I planted too deep which becomes easier and easier as the soil improvement magic happens.

 

[Buckhunter10]

@Buckhunter10 @RGrizzzz , I agree with everything Grizz posted above and would add one more point- I’m planting with a Woods FPS84 seeder. Kind of a min till. I have been buying blends from Greencover and all the seed goes in my big seed box. As my soil improves, my seeder runs deeper and deeper. I have uneven ground. If I could put small seeds in the small seed box and grains, peas and beans in the large box I would not be planting and wasting small seeds so deep that they never germinate. Everything gets planted at an appropriate depth.

Seed companies tell you you don’t have to worry about this. The big seeds “lead the way” and break the soil for the small seeds etc. My current planting is too thin though. Rate was right but I think I planted too deep which becomes easier and easier as the soil improvement magic happens.

That’s interesting- what is the cause of the thinness of the stand? What rate did you plant at? Do you have exclusion fences up?

I’ve been planting these mixes far before I started the company and many told me I couldn’t plant them together. I couldn’t plant brassicas with grains and so on. After 3+ years in business we have not had any of those claims come to fruition for our customers. I do believe this is heavily related to the ratios of the mix.

I plant around 40-50 acres a year in plots on my farm and I run them all in the same box. I plant green and always aim for 1/4 to 1/2inch max depth. Then I allow the green from previous planting to act as a mulch to reduce predation. Even when throw/mow this has results in tremendous plots. I’d recommend this method to any and everyone.

I do believe that with planting all in one box- it does best if there is a large amount of aggregate sizing difference - if trying to do say clover and oats - there isn’t enough there to keep them separate. That’s why with our clover and oats seed mix - we actually bag those separately (but in one bag).

I love all the feedback! Within any industry it’s impossible to meet everyone’s demands perfectly but we will certainly do our best to try!!

Thanks all!

 

[Westwind]

what is the cause of the thinness of the stand? What rate did you plant at? Do you have exclusion fences up?

I really think I planted too deep- My spring planting of a soil builder mix was similar. Also- I'm not using a true drill so I have less control over seed depth.

Now... I do think that there may have been a secondary issue with the fall planting. Had plenty of soil moisture when I planted but it was dry for around a month before it rained and I got germination. It seemed like the smaller seeds didn't come up as well.

I planted at recommended rate- this was greencover fall release. I did calibrate too.

I didn't use exclusion cages. I've just had more bare patches of soil than I ever had before and I'm going by the density of the plants as it greens up.

I think this is a problem I could solve even using only the large box as I adjust planting technique and gain experience but if I could use both seed boxes it would be more forgiving to planting error on my part.

I really like the looks of your blends. I plan on trying the nitro mix this spring.

 

[Westwind]

I’ve been planting these mixes far before I started the company and many told me I couldn’t plant them together. I couldn’t plant brassicas with grains and so on. After 3+ years in business we have not had any of those claims come to fruition for our customers. I do believe this is heavily related to the ratios of the mix.

I also wanted to make sure I'm clear- I think these regenerative blends are the best thing that has ever happened for food plotting and soil health. I'm not criticising you or any other company and I'm applauding the progress! But in my situation, which may not be the same as the next guy, if I could buy a "small seed blend" for my small seed box and then buy my own small grains, peas, beans etc locally for the big seed box, , I would jump on that with both feet!

I also understand that would be a niche segment of a niche market lol!

 

[Buckhunter10]

I also wanted to make sure I'm clear- I think these regenerative blends are the best thing that has ever happened for food plotting and soil health. I'm not criticising you or any other company and I'm applauding the progress! But in my situation, which may not be the same as the next guy, if I could buy a "small seed blend" for my small seed box and then buy my own small grains, peas, beans etc locally for the big seed box, , I would jump on that with both feet!

I also understand that would be a niche segment of a niche market lol!

Likewise sir. I hope I didn’t seem offended. I just was asking some questions as I’ve seen a lot of issues over the years and often can help trouble shoot.

I still would recommend exclusion fences - this field I would have thought was poor due to drought. We had worst one in 100 years in SE Ohio. My farm is actually still on a drought. However, it was mostly due to deer browse. We have around a 17 acre TSI bottom per NRCS that butts up to this field so that cover mixed with good quality food - just lends it self to heavy browse. But even with me owning and hunting the same farm for 15+ years. I still am learning browse patterns and such each year.

I know text is always hard to read but I promise that i sincerely appreciate everyone’s kind suggestions. Im just a regular joe who loves big whitetails and soil science, and if I can help others that’s a huge plus as well.

Thanks all!

 

[RGrizzzz]

I have challenges with depth as well. I tend to get better stands if it plant the grains at 1" deep. I think my issue is uneven ground. I'm looking to do some "finish" grading work on the plots to help and then we will see what happens. Some of the seed isn't getting into the ground well when using 1/2" depth. Haven't tried 1/4".

 

[Buckhunter10]

I have challenges with depth as well. I tend to get better stands if it plant the grains at 1" deep. I think my issue is uneven ground. I'm looking to do some "finish" grading work on the plots to help and then we will see what happens. Some of the seed isn't getting into the ground well when using 1/2" depth. Haven't tried 1/4".

I find that shallow depth - when planting green - works great.

I did this quick video like year ago - to show what’s worked well for me when we say planting green. I’ve since fine tuned a few things on the drill to get better coverage of the furrow. But you can see here the seed is just a little I to the furrow and then covered with a great thatch layer. This was our fall blend planted into our Summer blend. So the summer blend (Nitorboost) is being laid over.

 

[davidhelmly]

@Buckhunter10 @RGrizzzz , I agree with everything Grizz posted above and would add one more point- I’m planting with a Woods FPS84 seeder. Kind of a min till. I have been buying blends from Greencover and all the seed goes in my big seed box. As my soil improves, my seeder runs deeper and deeper. I have uneven ground. If I could put small seeds in the small seed box and grains, peas and beans in the large box I would not be planting and wasting small seeds so deep that they never germinate. Everything gets planted at an appropriate depth.

Seed companies tell you you don’t have to worry about this. The big seeds “lead the way” and break the soil for the small seeds etc. My current planting is too thin though. Rate was right but I think I planted too deep which becomes easier and easier as the soil improvement magic happens.

I totally agree and I am using the same equipment as you. I quit buying mixes years ago and started buying the seeds and making my own, bigger seeds in the big seed box and all the small seeds together in the legume box, no problems at all.

 

[SD51555]

I also wanted to make sure I'm clear- I think these regenerative blends are the best thing that has ever happened for food plotting and soil health. I'm not criticising you or any other company and I'm applauding the progress! But in my situation, which may not be the same as the next guy, if I could buy a "small seed blend" for my small seed box and then buy my own small grains, peas, beans etc locally for the big seed box, , I would jump on that with both feet!

I also understand that would be a niche segment of a niche market lol!

I think that’s what put GCS on the map. The blends are a great place to start for the new plotter. The expectation for a marketer to make the perfect blend for 10 million potential customers with hundreds of different unique sets of needs is unrealistic.

What savvy marketer can do is exactly what you’re saying; enable the unlocking of value. For many, once you get the basics and understand your unique needs, the next best place to go is to those who help you get what you need. GCS was there and then they seemed to back off. The perfect food plot seed store would offer hundreds of single varieties in one pound bags, including weed seeds like ragweed, Canada thistle, bull thistle, etc.

Think about all the questions that would cause a person to tweak a blend:

When do u want attraction?
On a scale of 1-5 how competitive is your neighborhood for food?
Do you need a cover component?
What method will you use to plant?
What preceded this crop?
Is your moisture risk drought prone or flood prone?
Will it freeze before you are done?
What do u want to plant after this?
When?
Do you spray?
What do you spray?
What are your problem weeds?
Are you at risk of running out of food?
Do you fertilize, or do you understand that SD was right about lime and gypsum being all you ever need?
Do you have compaction?
Is your soil sand, silt, or clay?
Do you have pigs?
What is your desired price per acre for seed?
Do you have access to winter cereal grains?
What is your soil pH?

Some day google will figure out a way to turn that decision tree into a blend rec.


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[Buckhunter10]

I think that’s what put GCS on the map. The blends are a great place to start for the new plotter. The expectation for a marketer to make the perfect blend for 10 million potential customers with hundreds of different unique sets of needs is unrealistic.

What savvy marketer can do is exactly what you’re saying; enable the unlocking of value. For many, once you get the basics and understand your unique needs, the next best place to go is to those who help you get what you need. GCS was there and then they seemed to back off. The perfect food plot seed store would offer hundreds of single varieties in one pound bags, including weed seeds like ragweed, Canada thistle, bull thistle, etc.

Think about all the questions that would cause a person to tweak a blend:

When do u want attraction?
On a scale of 1-5 how competitive is your neighborhood for food?
Do you need a cover component?
What method will you use to plant?
What preceded this crop?
Is your moisture risk drought prone or flood prone?
Will it freeze before you are done?
What do u want to plant after this?
When?
Do you spray?
What do you spray?
What are your problem weeds?
Are you at risk of running out of food?
Do you fertilize, or do you understand that SD was right about lime and gypsum being all you ever need?
Do you have compaction?
Is your soil sand, silt, or clay?
Do you have pigs?
What is your desired price per acre for seed?
Do you have access to winter cereal grains?
What is your soil pH?

Some day google will figure out a way to turn that decision tree into a blend rec.


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This has a lot of truth and the more single sources you add - you may appeal to one group and scare a lot of others away. Often we hear that folks are overwhelmed by the seemingly endless options.

I’ve wanted to always keep it as simple as possible, so far it’s been a phenomenal 3+ years.

I will say I love feedback and will sincerely take it all into consideration. Also - I can do custom blends for anyone but at this time I can do 1lb increment’s.

 

[Buckhunter10]

I totally agree and I am using the same equipment as you. I quit buying mixes years ago and started buying the seeds and making my own, bigger seeds in the big seed box and all the small seeds together in the legume box, no problems at all.

I’ll dm ya. I’d like to chat with you on phone buddy. I’ve sold a lot of seed to guys from KS to SE using your setup or the firminator without issue. I wanna figure this out!

 

[Westwind]

Likewise sir. I hope I didn’t seem offended. I just was asking some questions as I’ve seen a lot of issues over the years and often can help trouble shoot.

I still would recommend exclusion fences - this field I would have thought was poor due to drought. We had worst one in 100 years in SE Ohio. My farm is actually still on a drought. However, it was mostly due to deer browse. We have around a 17 acre TSI bottom per NRCS that butts up to this field so that cover mixed with good quality food - just lends it self to heavy browse. But even with me owning and hunting the same farm for 15+ years. I still am learning browse patterns and such each year.

I know text is always hard to read but I promise that i sincerely appreciate everyone’s kind suggestions. Im just a regular joe who loves big whitetails and soil science, and if I can help others that’s a huge plus as well.

Thanks all!

View attachment 75227

I am absolutely going to do exclusion fences this year! I do think I might have more pressure than I realize. Man- keep up the good work, love the short videos. I also had never read your Ohio farm tours thread. Lots of good stuff in there!

Also- there is something to be said for keeping it simple, both for the plotter and for your company. You gotta trust your gut on that and make a decision if that is going to be worth the extra trouble. Maybe try it as an “off the menu” item for fall planting one year and see how it goes?

 

[Westwind]

Also- I ordered a hydraulic top link for my tractor a few weeks ago. I think that will help me adjust on the fly a little bit with the seeder set up and help prevent myself from seeding too deep.