The Throw n’ Mow Method

[SwampCat]

I always find it interesting how many approaches to TnM work for different people in different areas. I've been doing different experiments with TnM since the mid to late 90's. I've done many side by side comparisons between standing, mowed, and packed thatch. I've had the best germination (almost every time) with mowing, then standing, and lastly rolling. To be honest I haven't used a roller or packer for a couple of year and likely won't again, but you never know.

Jack mentions that the thatch just needs to be thick enough to get germination, then the thatch is free to decompose. Where I'm at a fall planting may germinate with a rain event, then have a month of hot 90+ degree's dry days. Thin thatch is a death sentence for that planting.

Kind of a general comment here; I know it can be confusing for newbies, but understand that what works for one area isn't the greatest for another. That's why there is some conflicting info on this thread. Follow some basic principles and make it work for you. Once you sit back and study things a little an approach will stick out to you and make sense.

Exactly. I have ground on my 300 acres that is in the bottoms and on a 200 ft ridge top. The ridge tops are just pure and simple a no go for tnm - I have never had a successfully attempt. I am not saying if I tried ten times, they would all be failures, but after three or four attempts, you realize your time, effort, and money is wasted. Now, If you just like to tinker with that sort of thing, that is different and fine. Then, I have bottom ground - much more likely to succeed at TNM - but that all gets down to if I can get a tractor in there at the right time. In my experience, tnm is more time sensitive. The success of a tnm is more dependent on timely rains, and quicker germination - and then there are hogs. My tnm plots, at best, are successful 33% of the time. My woods seeder plots are successful close to 100% of the time. If all I had was a mower and a hand crank spreader, I would be all over the tnm process and fight it tooth and nail. I have planted ten acres a year off a four wheeler in the past. I have planted 30 acres with a 28 hp tractor. Now, I have all kinds of equipment and I am more efficient at planting. I can set my seeder to disturb 50% of the ground, one inch deep - and plant an acre in 20 minutes. I destroy very little organic matter. I can plant thirty or forty acres in a few days. I get almost 100% success on my planting. But, if I had a four wheeler, a riding lawnmower, and a hand crank spreader - I would dang sure be trying to perfect the tnm method.

 

[yoderjac]

My situation as far as the deer go is really nothing like yours. In 2012, we had four does and one fawn on camera surveys on 300 acres. That was three survey locations scattered around 300 acres with ten days prebaiting and ten days of camera surveys on shelled corn for bait. We have finally built our population to where last year we had 26 does and eight fawns on 300 acres. You could drive a mile away from mile place and hunt for a week and might not see a doe. We are not going to do anything to reduce our deer density. My property, along with two adjacent properties - are islands of deer density in a sea of intense harvest. Our fawn recruitment is horrible. I cant double crop buckwheat because of wet planting conditions in spring - not because of sufficient warm weather. If I planted in July, most years it would burn up. If I plant in Mid May, it is mature in August and pretty much beat down by end of Sept from grazing deer and roaming hogs. If I plant cereal grains early Sept, if there is enough rain, the army worms are likely to eat it before Oct. Clover will be brown, crunchy, and laying flat on the ground by Sept - perennial or annual. And then the problem is, if I do plant cereal grains and clover in a fall food plot, the clover and grazing will suppress the weed growth to the point their is not enough vegetation left to tnm into.

I know folks have great luck with tnm. I don't. It is a struggle for me and typically a waste of time. I have not had enough success to depend on the tnm system for the majority of my food plot plantings. But, my best luck has come when planting into a good crop of standing weeds. I have not had good luck at all when planting into standing summer crops. Hopefully, the OP has great success with this system.

20 dsm and no summer food is the similarity.

 

[yoderjac]

Success with T&M requires healthy soil. I damaged my soil by using a 2-bottom plow and tiller in the early days. One of the soil science guys sent me a link to a formula for building a solid road. It was pretty much the same prescription I had been following for food plots. Yikes! It took me quite a few years to restore soil health and make T&M a success. The damage was great enough that I could not do it in one step. My heavy clay would crust making it very difficult to T&M and it even had a negative impact when I used a no-till drill.

Eventually, nature slowly repaired itself. Rotating legumes and grasses (C & N) began building OM over the years. Nutrient cycling improved to the point where I have not used commercial fertilizer for about 4 years now and my food plots are better than when I was using a plow and lots of commercial fertilizer. For several years I had to use a tiller held so high on my 3pt hitch that it only hit the top inch of soil to break the crust. As my soil health improved this crusting problem resolved.

I don't have great soils but it is amazing what they can do when I focus on soil health. I mix and rotate crops and select crops that don't have high fertility requirements like WR. T&M, Min-till, and no-till drilling are techniques to help improve soil health. It is not comparing a couple years of T&M to high input traditional farming techniques. It is a marathon, not a 100 yard dash. I have become much more weed tolerant over the years as well. Many weeds are great deer food although some can be problematic and need to be addressed. Planting more acreage and not trying to eek out high yield while mixing and rotating complementary crops is another factor.

While the underlying principles of soil health apply across the board, the specifics of the best technique for reducing tillage may vary from place to place.

 

[yoderjac]

I always find it interesting how many approaches to TnM work for different people in different areas. I've been doing different experiments with TnM since the mid to late 90's. I've done many side by side comparisons between standing, mowed, and packed thatch. I've had the best germination (almost every time) with mowing, then standing, and lastly rolling. To be honest I haven't used a roller or packer for a couple of year and likely won't again, but you never know.

Jack mentions that the thatch just needs to be thick enough to get germination, then the thatch is free to decompose. Where I'm at a fall planting may germinate with a rain event, then have a month of hot 90+ degree's dry days. Thin thatch is a death sentence for that planting.

Kind of a general comment here; I know it can be confusing for newbies, but understand that what works for one area isn't the greatest for another. That's why there is some conflicting info on this thread. Follow some basic principles and make it work for you. Once you sit back and study things a little an approach will stick out to you and make sense.

Completely agree, your local weather patterns have a great impact on how well different techniques work. Timely rain can cover a lot of sins. Timing the fall plant is never easy. Too early and drought can be an issue; too late and things like turnips and radish don't reach their potential bulb/tuber sizes. Finding the right mix of crops, timing, techniques all make a difference and are different in different places. Here, fall rains are pretty reliable, but you never know when you might get a dry spell just when you don't want it. That is one more reason minimizing tillage is so important. Soils that have been tilled dry out much more quickly than non-tilled soils. So whether using a drill or T&M, one would have worse results in a dry spell if they tilled.

My 2-bottom plow is now collecting rust and I don't ever see using it again. There are times when I'll still hold a tiller high and barely scratch the surface or even disc lightly, but deep and frequent tillage is a thing of the past for me. In fact, I've even gone to "resting" my warm season annual fields. I'll pick a field, and instead of planting my normal fall cover crop (PTT, GHR, CC, and WR), I'll plant Medium Red Clover and Winter Rye. They make a good fall plant, but the medium red clover is a short lived perennial. It bounces back in the spring and will last for a couple years. That is a couple years of not tilling or planting at all in that field. I don't worry as much about an adjoining field having a poor result in any given year as I know the MRC will be producing. When the MRC is about exhausted, I'll bring it back on line for warm season annuals. I'll then pick another field that fall, and "rest" it from tillage completely.

Thanks,

jack

 

[Catscratch]

I'm going to throw out another idea about soil health and ways to amend it... weeds! My general feeling is that weeds indicate a failure to many 1st time TnM experiments. Here's my take:

Weeds are indicator plants. They are usually due to a deficiency or balance issue. The species of weed will tell you about pH, nitrogen levels, compaction, and many other things that we commonly buy synthetics to change.

Here is a very generalized summary of what weeds can tell you; https://www.almanac.com/weeds-indicator-plants

The weeds are growing there because conditions are good for them specifically, which tells you a lot about your soil. The thing about weeds though is that they will fix what is wrong. Plants that grow well in compaction tend to throw out a long tap root and alleviate compaction. Plants that love nitrogen tend to use up nitrogen. They are the most efficient and cheap way to correct the soil. Use them, they aren't bad and wildlife love them.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Reading through the link it tells me what I for the most part knew. We over fertilize, grow to many legumes, and don't apply enough lime and or gypsum.

 

[yoderjac]

I'm going to throw out another idea about soil health and ways to amend it... weeds! My general feeling is that weeds indicate a failure to many 1st time TnM experiments. Here's my take:

Weeds are indicator plants. They are usually due to a deficiency or balance issue. The species of weed will tell you about pH, nitrogen levels, compaction, and many other things that we commonly buy synthetics to change.

Here is a very generalized summary of what weeds can tell you; https://www.almanac.com/weeds-indicator-plants

The weeds are growing there because conditions are good for them specifically, which tells you a lot about your soil. The thing about weeds though is that they will fix what is wrong. Plants that grow well in compaction tend to throw out a long tap root and alleviate compaction. Plants that love nitrogen tend to use up nitrogen. They are the most efficient and cheap way to correct the soil. Use them, they aren't bad and wildlife love them.

Great post! A "weed" is just a plant growing some place you don't want it. For a guy reclaiming a compressed logging deck in heavy clay where noting grows, plants farmers call weeds are the first indication of success! Weed tolerance is something that took time for me to grow into. There are some problematic weeds that don't benefit deer that can become problematic and may need to be dealt with, but as time goes on, I'm finding more and more deer benefits from plant most call weeds.

I used to determine my success like a farmer, how much of what I planted is growing and how well is it growing. That is a workable definition of success for a farmer but not for a deer manager/hunter. Deer managers have two general objectives from food plots, providing food, and attracting deer to help with hunting. For the first objective, we don't benefit deer much at all providing food when nature is bountiful. The lion's share of a deer's diet comes from native foods, not our food plots. The QDM strategy for feeding plots is to target a crop that will provide high quality food during a stress period when nature is stingy to deer. In the south, that is mid summer, in the north, winter. In between, it is a little of each. A better gauge of success for this objective is simple. Is there food left in the plot after the stress period is over. If there is, the plot has been a success as reducing stress during this period. If not, then consider planting more acreage rather than trying to cram more planted food in the same acreage.

For attraction, the test is similar. Did the plot attract deer during the period of the hunting season that was targeted? If so, it was a success. Folks with just a few acres who can't expand acreage should consider techniques like a Gallagher-style fence prior to the season or selecting less attractive crops that don't get depleted if they have a failure. Of course, a failure in attraction could simply be that deer have found a "better " food source. This may not be a higher quality food, but simply one that they feel is less risky to access.

Very weedy plots (excepting particular problematic weeds) can be very successful from a deer management perspective.

Thanks,

jack

 

[yoderjac]

Reading through the link it tells me what I for the most part knew. We over fertilize, grow to many legumes, and don't apply enough lime and or gypsum.

I agree with over fertilizing and lack of lime as potential problems, but remember that link is for farmers, not deer managers. They are focused on yield. Pokeweed is a great example of a weed to a farmer that is a deer manager's delight. My biggest short-coming in this arena is the ability to identify many specific weeds and understand the role, if any, that they plan in a deer's diet.

 

[TreeDaddy]

I agree with over fertilizing and lack of lime as potential problems, but remember that link is for farmers, not deer managers. They are focused on yield. Pokeweed is a great example of a weed to a farmer that is a deer manager's delight. My biggest short-coming in this arena is the ability to identify many specific weeds and understand the role, if any, that they plan in a deer's diet.

one of the forum members recommended the Seek app for identifying weeds,trees,etc

great fun ......check it out

bill

 

[yoderjac]

one of the forum members recommended the Seek app for identifying weeds,trees,etc

great fun ......check it out

bill

will do!

 

[rtaylor]

So I've got a couple of acres in a powerline that has very poor soil. I am wanting to try this throw and mow method. My plan was to let it grow up pretty high for the next month, spray it, spread buckwheat and then mow it. I've been told that this method will not work for establishing buckwheat the first time and that I'll need to lightly turn the dirt for the buckwheat since the seed is fairly big. Is there any truth to this? I'd love to not have to disturb the soil.

 

[Bassattackr]

So I've got a couple of acres in a powerline that has very poor soil. I am wanting to try this throw and mow method. My plan was to let it grow up pretty high for the next month, spray it, spread buckwheat and then mow it. I've been told that this method will not work for establishing buckwheat the first time and that I'll need to lightly turn the dirt for the buckwheat since the seed is fairly big. Is there any truth to this? I'd love to not have to disturb the soil.

I think it depends on soil to seed contact - IE how thick the vegetation is that you're terminating. FWIW - I've broadcast buckwheat on bare dirt without cultipacking and it came up extremely well. Maybe someone else can chime in here.. but a timely rain also helped me!

 

[Camp 2 Dukes]

Lots of knowledgeable people here. When you say poor soils have you had it tested. Are you planning a future food plot? If it were me I would have it tested lime if necessary. Are you planting buckwheat just to plant into? If so just roll it and spray it and plant. However you can do that with the grass as well. I would spray the grass 2-3 times before planting anything.

 

[rtaylor]

I did a soil test last year and it came back 4.7 and it is fairly rocky. I've been slowly putting lime down but probably still need to put down a couple more tons. This is going to be a fall food plot but I'd really like to have a successful stand of buckwheat both for OM and for my bees. The current vegetation is pretty thick but not very high right now because I bush hogged it a few weeks ago.

 

[Camp 2 Dukes]

If it were me I would spray the grass as is at least twice maybe 3 times roughly 4 weeks between sprays or as it greens up. Plant and roll the buckwheat seed. Fertilize to soil needs. If it comes up great. Then in August come back roll and spray the buckwheat and seed your fall seed. I would not till it.

 

[rtaylor]

If it were me I would spray the grass as is at least twice maybe 3 times roughly 4 weeks between sprays or as it greens up. Plant and roll the buckwheat seed. Fertilize to soil needs. If it comes up great. Then in August come back roll and spray the buckwheat and seed your fall seed. I would not till it.

Camp what does it mean when you say "roll"? I don't have a cultipacker or a roller of any type.

 

[Camp 2 Dukes]

Camp what does it mean when you say "roll"? I don't have a cultipacker or a roller of any type.

I do mean a lawn roller or cultipacker. It will flatten the grass or buckwheat so you can spray it. Also after you seed it will help seed to soil contact. With out one you can do the same spraying and seed spreading but will need to seed heavier. I used a lawn roller for a number of years. It was used when I got it. I finally bought another one this year.

 

[yoderjac]

So I've got a couple of acres in a powerline that has very poor soil. I am wanting to try this throw and mow method. My plan was to let it grow up pretty high for the next month, spray it, spread buckwheat and then mow it. I've been told that this method will not work for establishing buckwheat the first time and that I'll need to lightly turn the dirt for the buckwheat since the seed is fairly big. Is there any truth to this? I'd love to not have to disturb the soil.

I get poor germination of buckwheat on my heavy clay unless I cultipack. If you have to disk, use a light disc set pretty straight. You don't want to go more than an inch deep at most. A tractor mount tiller will also work. You hold it up with the 3pt hitch so the tine barely touch the top inch.

 

[IkemanTx]

Figured I’d post the results of my throw-n-mow from last September here along with my property thread.

It started out slow due to lack of rain in September and October, but made up for it in February and March. The clover, vetch, winter peas, and cereals all did awesome.

I’m mowing it down so I can spray next week in preparation of planting. I would have preferred to throw-n-mow, but I’m going with a mixture heavy on soybeans and I don’t think my germination would be up to par with throw-n-mow on them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DiSc0Rd]

Figured I’d post the results of my throw-n-mow from last September here along with my property thread.

It started out slow due to lack of rain in September and October, but made up for it in February and March. The clover, vetch, winter peas, and cereals all did awesome.

I’m mowing it down so I can spray next week in preparation of planting. I would have preferred to throw-n-mow, but I’m going with a mixture heavy on soybeans and I don’t think my germination would be up to par with throw-n-mow on them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That sure is sexy