The Throw n’ Mow Method

[Tap]

A couple points on grass. Not all varieties of grass are emerged by May, foxtail is one of them for example, so spraying a post emergent herbicide like glyphosate won't address the later grass weeds.
And make sure that it is indeed grass. There's a lot of guys that look at sedge and think it's grass. Killing sedge is a bit more of a challenge.

There are a few pockets of sedge on the property. Have not noticed it in this field but great point. Would I need to spray it twice?

I think 2 sprayings on sedge is usually the aproach, but I'm not as experienced with killing sedge as some other guys on this site.
There are some sedge herbicides out there but I've never tried them.

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[chucker66]

I am near Earl so might be close to you. I have had great luck with Winter Rye, especially the first year since it will also help keep the weeds down. The first year I did the LC mix (Winter Rye, Oats, Peas, Radish, Red Clover). The 2nd year I had a nice stand of Rye that I just rolled and planted the Brassicas and then seeded additional Rye (I got some free seed from what was already there) so there would be something in the spring and summer. They did really well so I will keep doing this rotation. I plan and starting a few more plots this year with the LC mix but my main plot will now stay as Brassicas (Purple Top Turnip, Radish, and Rape) with Rye seeded in once the Brassicas are growing probably around mid August to early September.
Chuck

 

[Powder]

Just read through this whole thread. Wow long but worth it. Lots of good info. It makes sense to me and reminds me of how people establish new lawns by putting down seed and covering it with straw to retain moisture. I tried TnM this year before reading this. I am planting in Zone 3 NW WI so I was watching for other northern planters in specific. I am working with an old hay field that is mostly grass. Plenty of weeds too but mostly grass. Last fall I mowed then sprayed then seeded brassica then fertilized a one acre plot. It came up OK. But plenty of grass was still green. I think if I had sprayed then mowed I may have gotten a better kill. Bugs ate the Brassica really bad. Not sure what kind of insects it was as I didn't see any when I was there but there were holes in all the new foliage. Any advice on insect control would be appreciated. My plan for this season since the grass is really thick and well established is spray early (May) and let it be the thatch. Even the roots once dead should be compost. About 12 years ago I had beans in this field they did well. I'm thinking it would be nice to try them again however another question I have is for the far north planters is with an average 135 day growth period (according to farmers almanac) do I have time to do a warm and cool season grow? Maybe only once I have wheat or rye coming up in the spring? Thanks in advance for any insight and thanks again to all who have posted.

I'm in the same zone you are. My approach is to keep it as simple as I can. When I first starting looking into plotting about 3-4 years ago I was convinced I needed all sorts of equipment. I don't believe that's the case. The last couple years I messed around with clover, rye, oats ptt and radishes with some 'success' with each. Last fall was the beginning of my LC Mix and my intention is to expand on it this spring. I've got three small plots between .4 and 1.4 acres in size. I have wr and clover that should be coming up this spring in each plot that I'm excited to see. I want to provide something for them in the spring but I don't want to spend the time to double crop. Let the rye and clover do that for me. In the fall I'll do the brassicas in half and the cereal grains in the other half. Last fall my deer loved the rye.

I'm having a cultipacker made this spring and I will also buy a seeder to put on my 4 wheeler. The seeder will mainly be for wr/oats and fertilizer. The other seed is a bit small to use a large spreader. I will use a small handheld spreader for those. I already have a tractor, brush hog and sprayer. I am convinced that if you stick with small seeds (or those that don't need to be buried) you don't need anything else. The throw n mow will allow me to get a 'good enough' crop with less time and equipment. I may increase seeding rates but that's a minimal cost. The fact is you can get by with less equipment than I mentioned if the budget doesn't allow for all of it at once.

If you haven't looked at the LC Mix I would highly recommend checking it out. I think you will get the double crop you're looking for. One thing you didn't mention is the size of the field you're working with. That would be helpful to know.

EDIT: I was typing mine while chucker66 was typing his! I think our suggestions are very similar to each other.

 

[Barndog56]

As far as insects eating your brassicas, that happened to me the first year I planted them when I broadcast them the first week of July. They were chowed on by red turnip beetles. Last year I waited until the beginning of August to broadcast them and had no beetles. Their life cycle runs it's course by then.

 

[Camp 2 Dukes]

I am near Earl so might be close to you. I have had great luck with Winter Rye, especially the first year since it will also help keep the weeds down. The first year I did the LC mix (Winter Rye, Oats, Peas, Radish, Red Clover). The 2nd year I had a nice stand of Rye that I just rolled and planted the Brassicas and then seeded additional Rye (I got some free seed from what was already there) so there would be something in the spring and summer. They did really well so I will keep doing this rotation. I plan and starting a few more plots this year with the LC mix but my main plot will now stay as Brassicas (Purple Top Turnip, Radish, and Rape) with Rye seeded in once the Brassicas are growing probably around mid August to early September.
Chuck

Chuck thanks for the info I noticed you were in NW WI. I'm in the town of Atlanta north of Bruce. About what date do you plant your Brassicas if you seed in the Rye mid August. I think Barndog is onto the insect issue I had. I planted the Brassicas Early July which may sound crazy to some people but in N WI if you don't get rain right away which happens sometimes fall just comes too quick to get decent growth.

 

[Camp 2 Dukes]

I'm in the same zone you are. My approach is to keep it as simple as I can. When I first starting looking into plotting about 3-4 years ago I was convinced I needed all sorts of equipment. I don't believe that's the case. The last couple years I messed around with clover, rye, oats ptt and radishes with some 'success' with each. Last fall was the beginning of my LC Mix and my intention is to expand on it this spring. I've got three small plots between .4 and 1.4 acres in size. I have wr and clover that should be coming up this spring in each plot that I'm excited to see. I want to provide something for them in the spring but I don't want to spend the time to double crop. Let the rye and clover do that for me. In the fall I'll do the brassicas in half and the cereal grains in the other half. Last fall my deer loved the rye.

I'm having a cultipacker made this spring and I will also buy a seeder to put on my 4 wheeler. The seeder will mainly be for wr/oats and fertilizer. The other seed is a bit small to use a large spreader. I will use a small handheld spreader for those. I already have a tractor, brush hog and sprayer. I am convinced that if you stick with small seeds (or those that don't need to be buried) you don't need anything else. The throw n mow will allow me to get a 'good enough' crop with less time and equipment. I may increase seeding rates but that's a minimal cost. The fact is you can get by with less equipment than I mentioned if the budget doesn't allow for all of it at once.

If you haven't looked at the LC Mix I would highly recommend checking it out. I think you will get the double crop you're looking for. One thing you didn't mention is the size of the field you're working with. That would be helpful to know.

EDIT: I was typing mine while chucker66 was typing his! I think our suggestions are very similar to each other.

Powder thanks for the response I'm working with an 18 acre field. I currently plant about 2-3 acres. I also have a 4 acre field and a .5 acre wooded plot. Years ago (18 or so) I used to plant the whole thing in a mix of clover, brassica, rape, chicory, soy beans and corn ugh. That was a lot of work. It always came in well but I really got tired of repairing discs and other equipment. For equipment I have a Kubota RTV900 a Kubota loader tractor, a Ferminator (haven't used on anything but my lawn in many years), brush hog, Fimco sprayer (that I really dislike looking for a new one), a drag, a roller, a spreader and a few other small attachments. I have had a few farmers trying to rent it from me but to be honest I like the tall grass and so do the deer. When I used to turn it over it would come back in all clover. Apparently the farmer that pastured it planted a lot of red clover. After reading more about the TnM i am really excited about getting back into plots and being able to do it with such simple equipment. And it's better for the soil, Thats a win win win. I am thinking I should just plan on getting the grasses killed off so spray in May and June then plant LC mic in late June / early July and over seed Brassicas in late July and Rye in late August.
Thoughts?

 

[Camp 2 Dukes]

As far as insects eating your brassicas, that happened to me the first year I planted them when I broadcast them the first week of July. They were chowed on by red turnip beetles. Last year I waited until the beginning of August to broadcast them and had no beetles. Their life cycle runs it's course by then.

Thanks Barndog I think your probably spot on. I will need to plant those a little later.

 

[chucker66]

Chuck thanks for the info I noticed you were in NW WI. I'm in the town of Atlanta north of Bruce. About what date do you plant your Brassicas if you seed in the Rye mid August. I think Barndog is onto the insect issue I had. I planted the Brassicas Early July which may sound crazy to some people but in N WI if you don't get rain right away which happens sometimes fall just comes too quick to get decent growth.

I planted mine last year on July 25th. I would have gone a bit later but it was forecast to rain. I do not dig up any soil. I had no insect issues, only deer :)

Chuck

 

[chucker66]

Powder thanks for the response I'm working with an 18 acre field. I currently plant about 2-3 acres. I also have a 4 acre field and a .5 acre wooded plot. Years ago (18 or so) I used to plant the whole thing in a mix of clover, brassica, rape, chicory, soy beans and corn ugh. That was a lot of work. It always came in well but I really got tired of repairing discs and other equipment. For equipment I have a Kubota RTV900 a Kubota loader tractor, a Ferminator (haven't used on anything but my lawn in many years), brush hog, Fimco sprayer (that I really dislike looking for a new one), a drag, a roller, a spreader and a few other small attachments. I have had a few farmers trying to rent it from me but to be honest I like the tall grass and so do the deer. When I used to turn it over it would come back in all clover. Apparently the farmer that pastured it planted a lot of red clover. After reading more about the TnM i am really excited about getting back into plots and being able to do it with such simple equipment. And it's better for the soil, Thats a win win win. I am thinking I should just plan on getting the grasses killed off so spray in May and June then plant LC mic in late June / early July and over seed Brassicas in late July and Rye in late August.
Thoughts?

This sounds like a good plan to me. Good luck.

Chuck

 

[Camp 2 Dukes]

This sounds like a good plan to me. Good luck.

Chuck

Thanks Chuck. Do you spray before you roll? What do you use for a roller? Rye is rye but northern grass is very different than southern grass. Can be very thick and hard to roll flat.

 

[chucker66]

Thanks Chuck. Do you spray before you roll? What do you use for a roller? Rye is rye but northern grass is very different than southern grass. Can be very thick and hard to roll flat.

I just used a yard roller that you fill with water to roll over the Winter Rye once it was fairly ripe. It makes great thatch and then I just sprayed right after I seeded. It was a light spray as there wasn't much growing under the Rye.

Chuck

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I did TNM brassica last year on July 30 and the only thing that touched them were the insects? Every single leaf was chewed and I lost a significant amount of tonnage because of it. Ends up it didnt matter because the deer only eat them when they have run out of everything else. Some years that doesn't happen.

 

[SwampCat]

I did my first throw n mow this year and was pleasantly impressed with the success. WR, WW, and ladino clover into a one acre plot of thigh high “weeds”. Fertilized and seeded with a three pt spreader and then bush hogged and was done. I would say the stand was fairly even and about half as dense as a conventional tilled and planted stand - even though I seeded at a heavier rate. While it didnt provide as much food as my other plots, My hope is the clover establishes well and all I will have to do is bush hog a couple times this upcoming year, fertilize, and direct seed into the clover with a woods seeder -doing without any conventional tillage.

 

[Barndog56]

Last September I broadcast winter wheat into my perennial Clover and Alfalfa plot looking for something to grow all winter long. I got a little rain right after broadcast but apparently not enough as it never did germinate. Walked through that plot today and I see the wheat seed still laying on the ground with these little orange bumps on them. Anybody know what that is or what it means?

 

[Bill]

Anybody know what that is or what it means?

Not 100% but if I had to guess some type of mold.

 

[Bill]

So the farmer I lease a peice of hunting ground from has a small 1/2 acre field I've been trying to talk him to letting me plot. The commercial sprayers are so big these days his corn in that spot didn't get sprayed last summer so he says it's all mine.

Problem is it grew up 6 foot tall with poor corn, foxtail, cuckabur and other weeds. Can't burn it, it won't disk and if I mow I'll have lots of trash to deal with. I'm thinking of rolling the dead stuff now, spraying after green up and trying buckwheat. Good idea? Bad idea?

I've never tried buckwheat.

 

[Bowman]

I will go backwards. I like buckwheat. The soil temperature should be 65 degrees. Since I don't spray, I go mechanical. I would mow at least twice, once as high as you can, then a second time low and slow. Depending on how it looks after that, I might disc, not very deep to chop, if needed. After a weed flush, I would do another light discing to get rid of the weeds. Maybe again depending on weeds and soil temperature. I would cultipack after broadcasting the buckwheat. Buckwheat is good for weed suppression. If you roll it, none will be chopped up.

 

[IkemanTx]

I was very impressed with the results of the throw n now we did this year. 1/3 of an acre of waist to chest high junk. It was sprayed the last week of August, thrown and mown September 1st, and didn’t receive a drop of rain until October 3rd.... we still got a decent little stand of winter rye, oats, winter wheat, and turnips out of it. Nothing got a chance to get to maturity due to growing a month later than expected, but had it been planted conventionally..... it wouldn’t have made at all. The only thing that saved all that seed for a month was the thatch on top.


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[scott44]

So the farmer I lease a peice of hunting ground from has a small 1/2 acre field I've been trying to talk him to letting me plot. The commercial sprayers are so big these days his corn in that spot didn't get sprayed last summer so he says it's all mine.

Problem is it grew up 6 foot tall with poor corn, foxtail, cuckabur and other weeds. Can't burn it, it won't disk and if I mow I'll have lots of trash to deal with. I'm thinking of rolling the dead stuff now, spraying after green up and trying buckwheat. Good idea? Bad idea?

I've never tried buckwheat.

Sounds like a good idea, I'd add oats and red clover to go along with the buckwheat.

 

[Bowman]

Hey Scott, if I can remember correctly, how did your sunn hemp do?