The Throw n’ Mow Method

[Nova]

I also own a cultipacker. Would it be worthwhile to run the cultipacker over the field after I mow down the withered vegetation to make sure all the seed actually gets down close to the ground? I'm thinking a mixture of winter rye and crimson clover grow ok being planted like this. Heck, that stuff sometimes sprouts in the back of my truck after a good rain when I've spilled seed while filling up my hand spreader.

Last year I did this method and skipped the mowing and just cultipacked at it worked fantastic! I had oats growing in the plot since spring. Went in spread the seed and fertilizer, then cultipacked the plot, then sprayed with gly. Lots of dead thatch laying dead over the top of the seed. Great moisture keeper, weed suppressor and decent browse control until the brassica got going well.

 

[Drew]

Oh man, ya'll got me a little worried now. Good rain storms around my place in the fall are highly unpredictable. Weather forecasts more than a few days out usually change here in NC. Does it still work if the seed sets under the dead vegetation for a week or so without rain?

 

[Drew]

Last year I did this method and skipped the mowing and just cultipacked at it worked fantastic! I had oats growing in the plot since spring. Went in spread the seed and fertilizer, then cultipacked the plot, then sprayed with gly. Lots of dead thatch laying dead over the top of the seed. Great moisture keeper, weed suppressor and decent browse control until the brassica got going well.

So you sprayed the existing vegetation after you put out the seed? Seems like it normally takes a week or so after spraying here for the weeds/grass to even start turning brown. I'd think rye and oats would be sprouting here before the vegetation started dying off good, but I've got no experience with doing plots this way.

 

[Catscratch]

Oh man, ya'll got me a little worried now. Good rain storms around my place in the fall are highly unpredictable. Weather forecasts more than a few days out usually change here in NC. Does it still work if the seed sets under the dead vegetation for a week or so without rain?

Seed will gladly sit there until the conditions are right for germination. The longer it sits though, the more likely you will loose seed to birds and rodents (don't take them lightly, a flock of turkeys or blackbirds can clean you out in short order). Sometimes with the right seed (wheat is one that I've found this to be true with) is that heavy dew and good thatch will be enough for germination. Thatch will generate/hold moisture to some extent so while rain is nice maybe I should have said "moisture" is very important. Do you have lots of heavy dew mornings or foggy mornings in the fall? If so I bet you can get away with a lack of heavy showers.

 

[IkemanTx]

Oh man, ya'll got me a little worried now. Good rain storms around my place in the fall are highly unpredictable. Weather forecasts more than a few days out usually change here in NC. Does it still work if the seed sets under the dead vegetation for a week or so without rain?

We had a really wet August this year. Planted the plot throw and mow on sept 1, and then didn’t get a drop of rain for a month....

About 3-4 days after the first rain in October we had good germination. I lost most of the peas, but that’s to be expected with that long for rodents to find them.


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[Drew]

Seed will gladly sit there until the conditions are right for germination. The longer it sits though, the more likely you will loose seed to birds and rodents (don't take them lightly, a flock of turkeys or blackbirds can clean you out in short order). Sometimes with the right seed (wheat is one that I've found this to be true with) is that heavy dew and good thatch will be enough for germination. Thatch will generate/hold moisture to some extent so while rain is nice maybe I should have said "moisture" is very important. Do you have lots of heavy dew mornings or foggy mornings in the fall? If so I bet you can get away with a lack of heavy showers.

Sounds good. We get tons of heavy dew mornings here at my place. I live right next to a huge swamp and a pretty good sized creek, so it stays pretty damp when cool nights become more numerous in the fall. Heck, this past fall was one of the hottest and driest falls I can remember, and my food plot still grew good enough that the deer couldn't keep up with it and the oats put out a seeds.

 

[Nova]

So you sprayed the existing vegetation after you put out the seed? Seems like it normally takes a week or so after spraying here for the weeds/grass to even start turning brown. I'd think rye and oats would be sprouting here before the vegetation started dying off good, but I've got no experience with doing plots this way.

Yes, sprayed after broadcasting seed and fertilizer. I had planted oats in the spring. I was putting in brassica. When I cultipacked the oats they laid flat and the brassica came up thru that thatch. Spraying just killed off any weeds that had grown in the oats, the oats were matured and pretty much toast before I sprayed.

 

[Bowman]

I will support what Catscratch said. I had much less germination in the fall last year. I think that besides the weather, it was these culprits.

 

[tynimiller]

I have grown a strong dislike for our local turkey populations.....literally will devour any and all seed if just broadcasted on top....if it doesn't rain and germ in a few days KISS IT GOODBYE!

 

[Tap]

Curious if you guys think turkey or other birds pick tiny seeded stuff like clover, rape, etc?
Or is it just large seed (grains and such) that they get?

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[Catscratch]

I have grown a strong dislike for our local turkey populations.....literally will devour any and all seed if just broadcasted on top....if it doesn't rain and germ in a few days KISS IT GOODBYE!

I wonder if an owl or coyote decoy could keep thunderchickens out of a field. Maybe a pile of corn a little ways off site to distract them. Never thought about it before, I just watch the weather real close.

 

[tynimiller]

Curious if you guys think turkey or other birds pick tiny seeded stuff like clover, rape, etc?
Or is it just large seed (grains and such) that they get?

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We've never had brassica or clover/chicory issues for the most part. I'd actually bet all the birds from time to time do it...but the flocks move in and spend a few hours can do amazing damage.

The corn pile idea at planting could be the trick in some spots.

 

[Semisane]

I once watched a flock of 12 turkeys working over one of my plots. I picked out one hen, watched her closely and did the math.

She pecked the ground 73 times over a timed one-minute period. That's 1,095 times for the fifteen minutes the flock was on the plot. Multiplied by 12 birds, I lost 13,140 seeds in that one feeding period. If they hit the plot three times a day, which is about average, they consume over 39,000 seeds a day.

So let's define a "Turkey Day" as one turkey feeding on a plot for three fifteen minute periods and eating a total of 3,285 seeds (about 1/5 of a pound) .

Wheat and oats average around 15,000 seeds per pound. So if you put a heavy rate of 50 lbs. of wheat and 50 lbs. of oats on a small 1/2 acre plot (a total of about 750,000 seeds), it would take 228 Turkey Days to wipe out every seed on the plot. At that rate, a flock of 12 birds could wipe out that 1/2 acre plot in 19 days if they eat both the seeds and newly germinated sprouts.

Add in a few visits by a flock of doves and/or blackbirds during the first few days after broadcasting and all your seeds could be gone before germination. That's why a good layer of thatch is important for throw and mow or throw and roll.

 

[IkemanTx]

I once watched a flock of 12 turkeys working over one of my plots. I picked out one hen, watched her closely and did the math.

She pecked the ground 73 times over a timed one-minute period. That's 1,095 times for the fifteen minutes the flock was on the plot. Multiplied by 12 birds, I lost 13,140 seeds in that one feeding period. If they hit the plot three times a day, which is about average, they consume over 39,000 seeds a day.

So let's define a "Turkey Day" as one turkey feeding on a plot for three fifteen minute periods and eating a total of 3,285 seeds (about 1/5 of a pound) .

Wheat and oats average around 15,000 seeds per pound. So if you put a heavy rate of 50 lbs. of wheat and 50 lbs. of oats on a small 1/2 acre plot (a total of about 750,000 seeds), it would take 228 Turkey Days to wipe out every seed on the plot. At that rate, a flock of 12 birds could wipe out that 1/2 acre plot in 19 days if they eat both the seeds and newly germinated sprouts.

Add in a few visits by a flock of doves and/or blackbirds during the first few days after broadcasting and all your seeds could be gone before germination. That's why a good layer of thatch is important for throw and mow or throw and roll.

Man, that is AWESOME detailed information.


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[Bowman]

I planted into this 8/5 and mowed. Was this enough thatch? First soil test 5.8 ph. After liming, 6.0. Same field with the turkeys posted above.

 

[Freeburn]

I once watched a flock of 12 turkeys working over one of my plots. I picked out one hen, watched her closely and did the math.

She pecked the ground 73 times over a timed one-minute period. That's 1,095 times for the fifteen minutes the flock was on the plot. Multiplied by 12 birds, I lost 13,140 seeds in that one feeding period. If they hit the plot three times a day, which is about average, they consume over 39,000 seeds a day.

So let's define a "Turkey Day" as one turkey feeding on a plot for three fifteen minute periods and eating a total of 3,285 seeds (about 1/5 of a pound) .

Wheat and oats average around 15,000 seeds per pound. So if you put a heavy rate of 50 lbs. of wheat and 50 lbs. of oats on a small 1/2 acre plot (a total of about 750,000 seeds), it would take 228 Turkey Days to wipe out every seed on the plot. At that rate, a flock of 12 birds could wipe out that 1/2 acre plot in 19 days if they eat both the seeds and newly germinated sprouts.

Add in a few visits by a flock of doves and/or blackbirds during the first few days after broadcasting and all your seeds could be gone before germination. That's why a good layer of thatch is important for throw and mow or throw and roll.

Specific to this problem, I always spread a bag or two of feed grain whenever I seed my plots. This usually occupies the turkeys and other critters long enough for the smaller seeds to germinate.

 

[Bowman]

Going over my notes, I checked the dates. I planted brassicas with a throw and mow 8/5. I did not see much germination and overseeded with rye grain 10/3. The turkey picture is 10/18, so maybe they are hitting the rye seed which I hope would have germinated already. I will have to wait to see what I get from the rye in the spring. I will attach a picture of the same field on 10/9, after the rye and before the turkey. Strange cool weather summer up here and not much rain. I am wondering if the previous picture posted above is enough thatch for throw and mow. Comments appreciated.

 

[Camp 2 Dukes]

Just read through this whole thread. Wow long but worth it. Lots of good info. It makes sense to me and reminds me of how people establish new lawns by putting down seed and covering it with straw to retain moisture. I tried TnM this year before reading this. I am planting in Zone 3 NW WI so I was watching for other northern planters in specific. I am working with an old hay field that is mostly grass. Plenty of weeds too but mostly grass. Last fall I mowed then sprayed then seeded brassica then fertilized a one acre plot. It came up OK. But plenty of grass was still green. I think if I had sprayed then mowed I may have gotten a better kill. Bugs ate the Brassica really bad. Not sure what kind of insects it was as I didn't see any when I was there but there were holes in all the new foliage. Any advice on insect control would be appreciated. My plan for this season since the grass is really thick and well established is spray early (May) and let it be the thatch. Even the roots once dead should be compost. About 12 years ago I had beans in this field they did well. I'm thinking it would be nice to try them again however another question I have is for the far north planters is with an average 135 day growth period (according to farmers almanac) do I have time to do a warm and cool season grow? Maybe only once I have wheat or rye coming up in the spring? Thanks in advance for any insight and thanks again to all who have posted.

 

[Tap]

My plan for this season since the grass is really thick and well established is spray early (May) and let it be the thatch.

A couple points on grass. Not all varieties of grass are emerged by May, foxtail is one of them for example, so spraying a post emergent herbicide like glyphosate won't address the later grass weeds.
And make sure that it is indeed grass. There's a lot of guys that look at sedge and think it's grass. Killing sedge is a bit more of a challenge.

 

[Camp 2 Dukes]

A couple points on grass. Not all varieties of grass are emerged by May, foxtail is one of them for example, so spraying a post emergent herbicide like glyphosate won't address the later grass weeds.
And make sure that it is indeed grass. There's a lot of guys that look at sedge and think it's grass. Killing sedge is a bit more of a challenge.

There are a few pockets of sedge on the property. Have not noticed it in this field but great point. Would I need to spray it twice?