The Throw n’ Mow Method

[Ben Glantz]

I spread urea yesterday in the rain on my throw and mow brassica plot that was planted 7/31. Germination appears to be excellent but the gly I sprayed the day after didn't do much. There is a fair amount of weeds growing. Hopefully the new planting out competes the weeds. I seeded heavily.

In the half of the plot that was Rye from last year I am getting a thick carpet of Rye coming up. Is the Rye going to out compete the brassica?

Anybody have the same thing happen when planting into mature Rye?

I'm guessing if the rye was mature when it was knocked over, you will have a fair amount of volunteer rye. We mowed our rye in early july, it was headed but the seeds were still wet and not dry. The areas we missed mowing, we knocked over with the roller and those seeds are growing.

 

[seadonist]

I've been following this thread for a long time now and really want to go throw and mow this year but I've got a question. Would you all suggest going strictly throw and mow on new plots consisting of sandy, well drained soils? The plots currently have pretty dense native grasses and weeds on them. I have already broadcast 3000 lbs/ acre of lime without tilling it into the soil and will be doing a few applications of gly and 2-4-D in the coming weeks. I also have an atv drag and a home made cultipacker but I don't have a bush hog or big mower to mow with and I have no problem hitting the plots with a weed eater or push mower. I plan on planting WW, WR, Oates and a few clover varieties. I hope I've given all the needed info but if not, just ask and I can answer. Thanks in advance.


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[D Hunter]

How long ago was the lime applied? If you have a lot of organic matter on top and lime recently applied I would till it in. It will take a long time for the lime to work itself in. Lime is key in most acidic soil. Do you have a soil test? "D"

 

[seadonist]

How long ago was the lime applied? If you have a lot of organic matter on top and lime recently applied I would till it in. It will take a long time for the lime to work itself in. Lime is key in most acidic soil. Do you have a soil test? "D"

Last round of dolomitic lime applied last week and there is a lot of organic matter on top. Normal ph on my soil is 4.5. My plot is .4 acre and I put about 1500 lbs of lime down (600 lbs applied last week).

How deep should I set my discs?


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[S.T.Fanatic]

You cant have a throw and mow plot that builds healthy soil if you till. Case closed. The Lime that you spread will help the ph its just going to take a bit longer. Cereals can grow well on low ph anyway. My suggestion would be plant a mix in the early fall of rye, wheat, or triticale with radishes and crimson clover. Its a cheep mix and can be planted every year with nothing more than a bag spreader. Once you start to build a good amount of organic matter on top of the soil you could probably advance to planting beans if the fall cereal mix is heavy enough and you plant a bit later so that the cereals are taller and will cover the large seed better. You will also have better luck rolling the cereals on top of the larger seeds as opposed to mowing.

Overall goals should take priority in this game not what can get you the quickest results.

my $0.02

 

[Chris/OH]

Been following along for awhile now and tried my first throw/mow plot out. Went in on 7/22 and mowed an 1/8 acre plot. This field hasn't been touch in 20-30 yrs. There is a lot more acreage available but trying out a small plot first.
The weeds were too tall (6-7ft tall) to seed first so I mowed half way up and sprayed. Went back on 7/29 and spread seed and fert. The mix consisted of Rye, oats, ppt, rape and clover.
After seeding I mowed the remainder of the dead growth and then ran a drag while spraying.
Here is finished plot

Checked the plot today after two weeks and 1 1/2-2" of rain and germination looks decent.
For those who have planted this way, how does the growth look for two weeks? Been pretty dry and hot this week. Also this plot gets about 8-9hrs of sunlight.
Today's pics

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[seadonist]

You cant have a throw and mow plot that builds healthy soil if you till. Case closed. The Lime that you spread will help the ph its just going to take a bit longer. Cereals can grow well on low ph anyway. My suggestion would be plant a mix in the early fall of rye, wheat, or triticale with radishes and crimson clover. Its a cheep mix and can be planted every year with nothing more than a bag spreader. Once you start to build a good amount of organic matter on top of the soil you could probably advance to planting beans if the fall cereal mix is heavy enough and you plant a bit later so that the cereals are taller and will cover the large seed better. You will also have better luck rolling the cereals on top of the larger seeds as opposed to mowing.

Overall goals should take priority in this game not what can get you the quickest results.

my $0.02

Overall gain is the ultimate goal, but I would like SOME results the first year. I'm fine with not having 5 or 10 year results the first year. If you guys tell me that I may be good going strictly throw and mow, I'll heed that advice but I just want to stress that this field is really thick CRP type vegetation with strong root systems in place. Even though I'm spraying gly and 2-4D and mowing, my concern is that the roots are so established that my food plot crop may not be able to compete. That's why I was considering a light disc, mainly to break up some of the roots. But then again, I'm totally new to this so that's why I'm asking before doing. I appreciate the advice given so far.


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[Ben Glantz]

Been following along for awhile now and tried my first throw/mow plot out. Went in on 7/22 and mowed an 1/8 acre plot. This field hasn't been touch in 20-30 yrs. There is a lot more acreage available but trying out a small plot first.
The weeds were too tall (6-7ft tall) to seed first so I mowed half way up and sprayed. Went back on 7/29 and spread seed and fert. The mix consisted of Rye, oats, ppt, rape and clover.
After seeding I mowed the remainder of the dead growth and then ran a drag while spraying.
Here is finished plot

Checked the plot today after two weeks and 1 1/2-2" of rain and germination looks decent.
For those who have planted this way, how does the growth look for two weeks? Been pretty dry and hot this week. Also this plot gets about 8-9hrs of sunlight.
Today's pics

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Id say that looks pretty good. Im pretty sure I can see nibbled off leaves, something eating it! How much seed did you spread?

 

[Chris/OH]

15#Rye, 15#oats, 1#ptt, 2#rape, 3#clover (med red & jumbo ladino)

 

[Ben Glantz]

Overall gain is the ultimate goal, but I would like SOME results the first year. I'm fine with not having 5 or 10 year results the first year. If you guys tell me that I may be good going strictly throw and mow, I'll heed that advice but I just want to stress that this field is really thick CRP type vegetation with strong root systems in place. Even though I'm spraying gly and 2-4D and mowing, my concern is that the roots are so established that my food plot crop may not be able to compete. That's why I was considering a light disc, mainly to break up some of the roots. But then again, I'm totally new to this so that's why I'm asking before doing. I appreciate the advice given so far.


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If you have a lot of root issues, a little discking might be needed. I have not a done a true throw and mow, most of the areas I am using now, were disked first and I have

15#Rye, 15#oats, 1#ptt, 2#rape, 3#clover (med red & jumbo ladino)

If you wanted, you could always broadcast he cereal grains again right before a rain. This will give you new fresh growth along with the plants that are already growing. It will also fill in the bare spots. Then a couple weeks after that, broadcast the cereal grains again for 3 stages of growth. But be careful, you don't it too full of the cereal grains and they crowd out the other PTT and rape. Ive not had much luck with luck with the clover doing a whole until the following spring, then the clover takes off.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

I think see some yellow seedlings in that bottom pic which says that something could be off.....What kind of soil are you dealing with.....clay, sand??? Any idea of pH?? Have you added any soil amendments?

Also while I'm thinking about it.....take a shovel and dig a hole with it in your plot......how easy does it dig? How far down can you dig with ease? Do you see different soil horizons? How far down is the subsoil? These are good things to know to assess the situation. Is this two weeks after the rain fell or two weeks after planting?

 

[nchunter1989]

Overall gain is the ultimate goal, but I would like SOME results the first year. I'm fine with not having 5 or 10 year results the first year. If you guys tell me that I may be good going strictly throw and mow, I'll heed that advice but I just want to stress that this field is really thick CRP type vegetation with strong root systems in place. Even though I'm spraying gly and 2-4D and mowing, my concern is that the roots are so established that my food plot crop may not be able to compete. That's why I was considering a light disc, mainly to break up some of the roots. But then again, I'm totally new to this so that's why I'm asking before doing. I appreciate the advice given so far.


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I know where you are coming from, but think about this:

If you do a cereal mix with clover and radishes, or maybe turnips like was mentioned earlier, if the radishes/turnips do well , they will burrow into that root system. Rye will do the same thing, actually better then oats or wheat.

Best stand of rye I had this spring was an area of thick dog fennel & Johnson grass that I sprayed, came over with a spike drag & then broadcast. Came back with the drag folded flat to cover.

That's just my 0.02$ . I am no ways an expert on this, & I'm learning myself that quicker isn't always better.


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[seadonist]

I know where you are coming from, but think about this:

If you do a cereal mix with clover and radishes, or maybe turnips like was mentioned earlier, if the radishes/turnips do well , they will burrow into that root system. Rye will do the same thing, actually better then oats or wheat.

Best stand of rye I had this spring was an area of thick dog fennel & Johnson grass that I sprayed, came over with a spike drag & then broadcast. Came back with the drag folded flat to cover.

That's just my 0.02$ . I am no ways an expert on this, & I'm learning myself that quicker isn't always better.


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Lol... every time I play one scenario out in my head and think that it's a good idea, the "what if" factor kicks in and then I feel somewhat unsure about it. So mix in a few brassicas with the cereal grains, huh? Doesn't sound bad but I'm like you, learning as I go. I guess I might be overthinking it maybe??


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[nchunter1989]

Lol... every time I play one scenario out in my head and think that it's a good idea, the "what if" factor kicks in and then I feel somewhat unsure about it. So mix in a few brassicas with the cereal grains, huh? Doesn't sound bad but I'm like you, learning as I go. I guess I might be overthinking it maybe??


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Right. Have you read any of LC's archives?

Wealth of info there.


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[Chris/OH]

If you have a lot of root issues, a little discking might be needed. I have not a done a true throw and mow, most of the areas I am using now, were disked first and I have



If you wanted, you could always broadcast he cereal grains again right before a rain. This will give you new fresh growth along with the plants that are already growing. It will also fill in the bare spots. Then a couple weeks after that, broadcast the cereal grains again for 3 stages of growth. But be careful, you don't it too full of the cereal grains and they crowd out the other PTT and rape. Ive not had much luck with luck with the clover doing a whole until the following spring, then the clover takes off.

Thanks, yep that was my intention for the clover. There is actually a lot of brassica seeds germinated but are hard to see in the pic.
Rained really good this evening so hoping it will trigger some good growth this week. Definitely will fill in bare spots with cereals once I get an idea of how the plot will do.


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[seadonist]

Right. Have you read any of LC's archives?

Wealth of info there.


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I have read some. Almost information overload


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[hilltopper]

I started my plots in sandy soil that had good grass cover that had grown for many years. The biggest mistake I made was to purchase a 7' rototiller and try to get to bare dirt in order to plant. Too much work, poor germination and seedling survival in dry weather, etc. I've since started a couple new plots with throw and mow (after soil test and liming) using WR and clover, and have much better results and much less work! My plots aren't picture perfect, but yoderjac has me feeling alright about that. Don't do it- don't till!

 

[seadonist]

I went to the lease yesterday, still unsure of how I wanted to tackle this field so I brought my Groundhog Max with me just in case. After walking the field and digging around in the grasses, I decided that the root system was so dense that my seeds would probably not be able to compete, even after the gly application had done a good job of killing off the area that I want to plant so I hooked up the Groundhog to my atv and set it as high as I could while still getting tillage. I estimated that I had it set between 1-2". After tilling, the only spots that had bare dirt visible were the wet spots in the field that my atv tires rutted up some from making turns. Everywhere else in the field just looked like I rolled over it with a cultipacker but the grasses were loosened up well. Next I'll broadcast my seeds and fertilizer, mow the field and then cultipack it. We'll see how it turns out...

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[35-acre]

Well my plot isn't doing as well as I had hoped. It's been 3 weeks since I knocked down the buckwheat. We've had good rain and I wanted to check on the winter rye and brassica. I wish I would have sprayed the field after knocking down the buckwheat. I have a lot of weeds that came up. The rye is coming in. The brassica mix is doing well on the edges where the sun doesn't hit as much.

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[Crimson n' Camo]

That's some pretty rough looking dirt you're having to work with 35 acre......I'd keep top sewing cereal rye before a rain until it covered the field pretty thick.....You really need a couple heavy crops of biomass over the top of all of that. Could just be the lighting but that top picture looks yellowy....Have you added any fert or lime? Sorry if you've already said this, the details of everyone's fields kinda run together on me.