The Throw n’ Mow Method

[RJAJr]

You might consider spot spraying those thistles. Might be too late for this year. Dunno.

For the record I spot sprayed some thistle areas I was having issues with in a clover plot about 3 weeks ago with Buyrtec. I am really happy with how well it knocked back the thistle. It's not perfect but I had a couple of real problem areas and I feel like I have a huge jump on the upcoming spring. Seeded rye heavy in these areas 14 days post spray.

 

[Catscratch]

This thread kind of died for a while. Suppose the summer lull shut her down? Figure I'll update what my TnM/Regenerative plots are doing...

Sunflowers are just starting to bloom. Most summers I try them they don't make it to bloom but this year has been different. I'm not seeing the bachelor groups of bucks that I normally do in these plots. I think the ag switch from beans to corn has had some affect on that. Instead... I'm seeing a doe and her fawns in here almost daily. They'll stay in the plots all day, let me mow around them, and even stay put when the dog is out running around. Only bolt if you get within a few feet of them.


Millet is going to make some seed! It's shorter than the milo so you have to dig a little to find it but some made it. Hope the quail take advantage.


Milo is just starting to make berries. Usually the deer wipe out my milo once it hits the doughy stage. We'll have to see what happens in the next few weeks.



Pinto beans germinated and grew... but not a lot of relief from pressure, and they aren't going to outgrow the sunflowers/milo/millet. Next time I do a mix like this I need to find a vining legume!



Forage collards are in there but you have to dig. I wish I would have gone with a radish instead. I'll probably nuke this plot to put in clover and cereals. Not sure what positive the collards will have had if they didn't get grazed, didn't put down a deep tap root, or didn't mine a mineral? Maybe they did something I'm not touching on yet? I suppose if they grew they likely had a purpose. Things that grow typically do it to fill a gap that wasn't being filled by something else. Maybe someone smarter than me knows what gap they filled?

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

I use them to fill a gap between my meat and potatoes.... lol

 

[Catscratch]

I use them to fill a gap between my meat and potatoes.... lol

As good an answer as any!

 

[BrushyPines]

Looking good, Cat!

 

[TreeDaddy]

I use them to fill a gap between my meat and potatoes.... lol

Which is the only reason I plant them in east texas

deer won't touch them

We love them with corn bread

bill

 

[Ikeman]

Alright guys, I’ve been gone for a while and need a refresher on TNM seeding rates and methods.
Plots will be small (0.2ac, 0.2ac, 0.3ac, and 0.5ac) and all planted into fallow pasture. I plan to use a pre-mixed fall deer plot mix from a local CoOp.

Mixture of Wheat 12%, Oats 12%, Rye 12%, Barley 12%, Triticale 12%, Winterpeas 10%, Crimson Clover 4%, Berseem Clover 4%, Turnips 4%, Rape 4%, Arrowleaf Clover 4%, Yellow Blossom Clover 4%, Vetch 3%, Alfalfa 2%, Silver River Clover 1%.

I am thinking of aiming at 150lbs/ acre equivalent, broadcasting before a good forecasted rain, mowing over the broadcasted seed, and spraying over the residue.

Sound about right?


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[Ikeman]

Or should I aim at 200lbs to the acre total seed since it is going into established fallow pasture, and everything is dormant right now from a month of 105°-110° temps..?

200lbs would be

120lb/acre cereal grains,
20lb winter peas,
8lb crimson clover,
8lb berseem clover,
8lb arrow leaf clover,
8lb yellow blossom clover,
8lb turnip,
8lb rape,
6lb vetch,
4lb alfalfa,
2lb silver river clover


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[omicron1792]

Or should I aim at 200lbs to the acre total seed since it is going into established fallow pasture, and everything is dormant right now from a month of 105°-110° temps..?

200lbs would be

120lb/acre cereal grains,
20lb winter peas,
8lb crimson clover,
8lb berseem clover,
8lb arrow leaf clover,
8lb yellow blossom clover,
8lb turnip,
8lb rape,
6lb vetch,
4lb alfalfa,
2lb silver river clover


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You can’t go wrong with more grains imo. Looks good!

 

[Catscratch]

Or should I aim at 200lbs to the acre total seed since it is going into established fallow pasture, and everything is dormant right now from a month of 105°-110° temps..?

200lbs would be

120lb/acre cereal grains,
20lb winter peas,
8lb crimson clover,
8lb berseem clover,
8lb arrow leaf clover,
8lb yellow blossom clover,
8lb turnip,
8lb rape,
6lb vetch,
4lb alfalfa,
2lb silver river clover


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I like this. Going into dormant pasture are you going to spray to kill anything, or just let your seed compete with what's already in the pasture? I'd be worried that your dormant plants may not die if you spray gly now. But if they are green it would probably take.

 

[SD51555]

Or should I aim at 200lbs to the acre total seed since it is going into established fallow pasture, and everything is dormant right now from a month of 105°-110° temps..?

200lbs would be

120lb/acre cereal grains,
20lb winter peas,
8lb crimson clover,
8lb berseem clover,
8lb arrow leaf clover,
8lb yellow blossom clover,
8lb turnip,
8lb rape,
6lb vetch,
4lb alfalfa,
2lb silver river clover


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I'm betting that blend is geared towards about 15-20 lbs/ac. That's just way too many pounds of those small seeds for that to ever be successful. If that amount of seed all germinated @ 200 lbs/ac, you're going to have over 300 plants per square foot.

 

[Barndog56]

That's way heavy on the small seeded clover and brassicas. I'd go with 50 pounds of that mix so you're getting 2lbs of each of those small seeds, then add 100 pounds of cereal grains with it, per acre.

 

[SD51555]

Beings that is about 55% grains, You should have around 8lbs of those small seeds per acre max. I don't like to see brassicas go over 2 lbs per acre, and I still think that's way too much.

8 / .55 = 15 lbs/ac of that blend.

Smaller brassicas will yield you 3-5 plants per square foot, per pound of seed. Radish is bigger. I would bless 2-3 lbs/ac.

 

[Catscratch]

Hmmm. I was looking at it with the thoughts of extremely hot and dry weather combined with heavy thatch, and the possibility of a bad kill on already present grasses. In my way of thinking this all adds up to needing more seed. I'm likely off the mark though.

 

[Ikeman]

I'm betting that blend is geared towards about 15-20 lbs/ac. That's just way too many pounds of those small seeds for that to ever be successful. If that amount of seed all germinated @ 200 lbs/ac, you're going to have over 300 plants per square foot.

Recommended seeding rate, per the CoOp is drilled at 100lbs per acre. I am assuming very low germination with seeding into an established field with poor conditions for spraying glyphosate, and zero ground prep other than mowing thatch over.

I’d rather have a heavily over-seeded patch that struggles this year than nothing come up at all after 9 weeks without rain and 10 weeks over 100° making the ground concrete. Our first few rains won’t infiltrate, and the ground is hydrophobic at this point.


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[Ikeman]

That's way heavy on the small seeded clover and brassicas. I'd go with 50 pounds of that mix so you're getting 2lbs of each of those small seeds, then add 100 pounds of cereal grains with it, per acre.

They have another mix with much fewer small seeds. That mix is wheat, oats, rye, winter peas, and turnips, but percentages are not listed. Maybe half one mix and half the other? That would cut the small seeds heavily.

I did that exact same thing 2 years ago 50/50 of these 2 mixes at 150lbs per acre and it came out fantastically. though that plot was tilled, broadcast, and rolled so I was figuring another 50lbs per acre to make up for no soil prep.

EDIT:
Or, I could do the 200lbs/acre of the mix without all the small seeds and just toss a couple pounds of vetch and clover over the top.

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[Ikeman]

I like this. Going into dormant pasture are you going to spray to kill anything, or just let your seed compete with what's already in the pasture? I'd be worried that your dormant plants may not die if you spray gly now. But if they are green it would probably take.

I am going to spray over top after mowing, but much will be dormant and not killed. I figure these plots will take a couple years and timely rains to properly get cleaned of the pasture species.

This is Blackland prairie, and we locals call the soil “black gumbo” cracked concrete when dry, slimy and sticky when wet. The kind of sticky where your boots end up 30lbs because the soil just keeps adding layers with each step. Because of this, I am giving up on trying to make tillage work with minimal access to equipment and not being able to time the work on the 3-4 days when the soil can actually be worked.


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[FarmerDan]

Two points to make-
1. Upping seeding rates is OK but there is a limit. You can't compensate for soil and weather conditions so bad the probability of germination is approaching zero.
2, Seems to me having a blend of many many seeds is a two edged sword. The good news is something is likely to germinate. The bad news is, out of off those different varieties of seeds one or two are going to dominate. So, if you know the dominate varieties, and I'm asking, can you increase your odds of success by just planting those?

 

[Ikeman]

Two points to make-
1. Upping seeding rates is OK but there is a limit. You can't compensate for soil and weather conditions so bad the probability of germination is approaching zero.
2, Seems to me having a blend of many many seeds is a two edged sword. The good news is something is likely to germinate. The bad news is, out of off those different varieties of seeds one or two are going to dominate. So, if you know the dominate varieties, and I'm asking, can you increase your odds of success by just planting those?

Under these conditions, I don’t know what the dominant varieties will be other than most likely the cereal grains.

The one other time I planted this, the vetch and crimson clover were the 2nd and 3rd dominant. But, that was a wet year with good soil prep.


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[Catscratch]

Once again, just my experience and purely throwing out here for discussion... 1 or 2 typically do dominate. But, with a huge variety of seed the dominant species changes with the weather. Alfalfa may struggle against the clover competition and is hardly noticeable until the clovers dry up due to mid summer heat, then they take advantage and become dominant. Then with a few rains something else takes over. With a lot of variety we get lots of opportunities. And we get some that never succeed too.