Starting Over.

[S.T.Fanatic]

Doing your due diligence then!!


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[RGrizzzz]

Your potassium and sulfur levels look low, although they're low on both plots. I had never thought about sulfur levels until a year or so ago, based on what I learned in another forum, and supplemental reading. I had some anemic clover plots until I started adding some P and K via 0-20-20.

Sulfur Fertility Management for Grain and Forage Crops

Discusses the role of sulfur in plant nutrition, the forms and behavior of soil sulfur, predicting sulfur needs of field and forage crops, and meeting crop sulfur needs.

extension.psu.edu

 

[SD51555]

That's an interesting soil test. I remember you'd put on a boatload of dolomitic lime years back. It's neat to see higher mag numbers in highly sandy soil. Something also dawned on me last night. CEC is a rating of the level of nutrients your soil can hold at any given time. My native topsoils run at 8 and holds all the nutrients I'd ever need. What didn't dawn on me is that with a CEC of 4, that capacity is chopped in half. Mind blowing math, I know!

Anyway, potassium is not easy to hang onto in sand. The best place to store your potassium is in living plants. When those plants die and get rained on, most of the potassium washes right out, and it needs to be caught by the next crop. This used to be a big deal when buying straw. If the straw got rained on, it's manure value after being used for bedding was lowered. It was also a benefit for whomever was selling the straw. They got to skim some K off before selling the carbon.

This is where you can really get into trouble with fallow periods and heavy rains in sand. Remember the rick clark slide on how much potassium is stored in rye residue. You can do a potassium soil test with your eyes by looking at the standing biomass you have in a rye crop or any high carbon crop. If the rye is there, the potassium is there, but it's up in the air, not in the soil probe.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

Your organic matter % is identical to the plots at my house. I've had good luck improving Potassium and Sulfur with Kmag.

Has your organic matter changed at all since you switched to no-till?

 

[Foggy47]

Your organic matter % is identical to the plots at my house. I've had good luck improving Potassium and Sulfur with Kmag.

Has your organic matter changed at all since you switched to no-till?

Maybe a tenth or two over tests a few years ago. I've been hoping for more improvements. Slow changes over time.

 

[matinc]

Curious on if this rye is in doe stage and how the group feels if this field is broadcasted with buckwheat or cc6 and then crimped and how it will turn out. This is michigan lower peninsula. I broke that seed apart.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Curious on if this rye is in doe stage and how the group feels if this field is broadcasted with buckwheat or cc6 and then crimped and how it will turn out. This is michigan lower peninsula. I broke that seed apart.

Yes


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[omicron1792]

Curious on if this rye is in doe stage and how the group feels if this field is broadcasted with buckwheat or cc6 and then crimped and how it will turn out. This is michigan lower peninsula. I broke that seed apart.

Yes

 

[Foggy47]

Yep, that is about where my rye is at too. Planning to crimp mine within the next two weeks. I think there is considerable leeway on that dough stage......it doesn't get to hard seed for some time.

I may leave some of my rye this year.....and see it it will re-seed itself.

 

[Tree Spud]

Yep, that is about where my rye is at too. Planning to crimp mine within the next two weeks. I think there is considerable leeway on that dough stage......it doesn't get to hard seed for some time.

I may leave some of my rye this year.....and see it it will re-seed itself.

It should, mine always reseeds. Not necessarily 100%, but you should see 40-50% or more. Cultippacking after WR has dried should shake seeds loose.

 

[deepsleep]

I've had similar failures with broadcasted fall clover and I think it was a result of shade tolerant preexisting weeds in the rye exploding after crimping/cultipacking. They're tiny in the fall but have too much of a head start on the clover for the clover to compete. They don't look like much when you're dealing with thick rye residue. Did you spray anything on those plots last fall before/after drilling? I've had better success if I spray first, then go in and broadcast rye/clover, then cultipack. I hope to eventually quit spraying, but for now, I have too much seed in the seedbank. The rye stunts it all spring and summer but it survives long enough for me to release it by cultipacking the rye. Other possibilities include residual herbicide toxicity, or too much rye straw killing your recently germinated clover seedlings. I think the too deep theory is unlikely since you should have had it come up in areas where the drill was uneven or going over rocks/stumps/etc. Regardless, don't till it. I made that mistake in my woods plots when I got a tractor/disk. We had previously don't very light tillage with UTV equipment and had great plots (with lots of spraying). Tilling brought up a flush of weeds unlike anything I'd ever seen before. I like the idea of Butyrac or mowing or both as mentioned above. See what happens. If you don't like the result, hit it with Gly and drill grains/clover at your usual time.

 

[matinc]

Just wanted to show you the rig I used today. The titan attachments 80 pound forward seeder worked awesome. Pulled two ticks off.

 

[bigboreblr]

Look like that rye is close to mature. From the look of that one, I'd check a few more. Some might be mature enough to reseed. You can always grab a dozen or two heads, let them dry out some, then test germination. I take a 12 inch houseplant saucer and fill it with dirt and put the seeds in. I do this mostly with whole oats not meant for feed. Always sprouts up 85% or better.

I mowed a fe heavily weeded plots up at camp over the weekend. All had some rye in it, maybe 2 or 3 heads a square foot. PAst 2 years I had no luck timing a visit up there and rain. Always been wet and I can't spray up there. Was wet p there this past few days. However, my mower isnt bother too badly by moist grass. Really wet stuff it clumps up. Did have to mow in 2 passes because it was a bit wet. LEft one plot unmowed, it has low fertility and need organic matter pretty bad. It's looking better each year though.

 

[matinc]

This was the aftermath of two trips around the field with this roller crimper. I know i now need an extra 160 pounds on to crimp better but for $500 I am totally impressed. I do question to the group. I know many of you use gly and 24d but honestly is it that needed as your deer will be eating it and then you eating them.

 

[Foggy47]

I started this thread about three weeks ago.....and at that time I thought I was somewhat screwed for clover germination (and sweet clover?) as upon inspection there was very little clover showing in much of my winter rye. I was really surprised.....as I have had such good success with establishing clover over all my land and under various planting scenarios over the past 15 years.

Last week I rolled my rye....and THIS WEEK I GOT CLOVER POKING THRU EVERYWHERE! It's almost magical how much clover has appeared in most of my land. I guess I was a bit impatient and expected more and sooner? Maybe that yellow sweet clover will appear yet? I got a few weeds too....but plan to mow the tops in a few weeks. Here are some pics from today. Very happy.




the last pic above, is some North Woods Whitetails Sorguhm mixed with a bit of GCC View Blocker ....where I am trying to get some vertical cover and to break up a few bigger plots and get a screen to enter a blind. It's growing quite rapidly now.....and its a bit weedier than I want......but I think it will go fine. May try to throw a little nitrogen on it in another week.

 

[matinc]

Foggy did you see that clover underneath it before you crimped it

 

[matinc]

SD would like your observations on foggy field

 

[Foggy47]

Foggy did you see that clover underneath it before you crimped it

In some areas the clover was pretty good.....and in other areas it was barely existent....until after crimping. As said...it has just exploded inside a week. The moisture has been there....but the sunlight was not.

 

[matinc]

That's awesome foggy. Please send in weekly pics to check on the progress.

 

[SD51555]

SD would like your observations on foggy field

As that sits now, Foggy is sitting on a gold mine for forage production, and he’s gonna produce more damn clover than he could ever imagine, and here’s why.

Clay and sand have opposing benefits and challenges. Clay holds moisture easily and its yield limiting factor is oxygen. Sand is full of oxygen, and moisture is its yield limiting factor. Foggy just fixed his yield limiting factor of moisture with that rye carpet. He’s also sitting on more fertility in his rye residue than anyone would ever purchase and apply. He’s got the clover there ready to use and express all of it.

Once he gets a good soaking rain to wash a massive amount of K out of that residue, his clover will explode in tonnage. That explosion in tonnage is gonna feed an explosion in nodulation that is going to send his carbon utilization into hyperdrive. He’s sitting on 4-10 tons of dry matter per acre in that residue above and below ground. Let’s just say 7 tons. That’s 14,000 pounds and 2% of that 14,000 is macro and micronutrients. That’s 560 pounds of pure nutrients, or the equivalent of 933 pounds of triple 19 per acre.

And now he’s the most drought resilient he could possibly be. He’s also weed resilient because he’s sitting on a strong population of Mfungi. I very much doubt he will see problem weeds because the ones we worry about most do not like the conditions he has there.

One good rain and a little heat, time and sun, and he’ll be on the cover of Paddle Waving Rain Dancer Magazine.


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