Starting Over.

[Foggy47]

I feel bad about "over-reacting" to the issues I had with my plots this year. After rolling the rye.....the anticipated clover appeared to be absent. Likely was planted too deep last fall?......and or set back by the rye and weeds I encountered.

Anyway......today I was planting my winter rye / brassica / replacement clovers for next year. My plots ALL now look fantastic compared to a few weeks ago. Even the worst ground I got is coming back in spades. The recent rainfalls sure did not hurt......but my clovers just seemed to come back stronger than I can almost believe. Some pics of my plots while planting today.

Thanks for the advice given fellah's. Grateful.

 

[Foggy47]

Some "ground under development" was planted with rye last fall.....and I did put a small amount of clover in too. I had recently mowed the rye hoping for a re-seed and today I saw I had germination of that rye with some growing a few inches high already. Also some of that clover is coming in now too. This would be a real boom for my property if I can start growing some nitrogen producing crops on this land. Looks like it's gonna happen.



Also used my Herd seed slinger to broadcast rye over the brassica plots I got growing two weeks ago. Pretty happy with the brassica development at this point. It was raining as I spread this rye....so I should get a good take.

 

[cbw]

Speaking to the title of this thread… I’ve been trying to get a few clover plots started. Last year I drilled in a Northern Clover mix from GC in July. Had some brassicas and alfalfa with the mix of clovers. I overseeded rye in Sept. the fall brassicas/rye was outstanding.

Come spring, half the plots I mowed in June, the rest just mowed last week. One plot is doing fairly well. One that we mowed early.

But this plot below is a wreck. It is on a ridge in the timber. We didn’t mow it this summer. Thick with foxtail. Very little clover. I overseeded with clover last weekend right before we got 1.5” rain. Then just mowed it down a couple days ago.

Not sure if I should nuke it all and start over with a completely different method, like prepping the soil with a disk (haven’t used a disk for 4 years). Or try to kill the grass with some clethedim. Or something else.

Any wisdom would be appreciated.

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[Foggy47]

^. Grasses are one of those weeds that is gonna take some chemicals to control....IMO. I got some plots that I wish I had used Cleth on a few weeks ago as I see some grass creeping in.....now it's too late as I got too many other things planted. I think I will get by this year....but that dang grass needs to go. If you have not planted for fall....I would definitely kill that grass before doing more. I would not disk it....only going to get more weeds.

 

[SD51555]

@Foggy47 don't you got gettin' a notion to spray those thistles. You leave them alone. Stick to the plan.

Those plots look great and they will come like gangbusters with rain and a solid 45 days of growing left. You're already at very good canopy to keep sun off your sand, and moisture under your duff. Just golf and enjoy the show. You've done great!

 

[SD51555]

Speaking to the title of this thread… I’ve been trying to get a few clover plots started. Last year I drilled in a Northern Clover mix from GC in July. Had some brassicas and alfalfa with the mix of clovers. I overseeded rye in Sept. the fall brassicas/rye was outstanding.

Come spring, half the plots I mowed in June, the rest just mowed last week. One plot is doing fairly well. One that we mowed early.

But this plot below is a wreck. It is on a ridge in the timber. We didn’t mow it this summer. Thick with foxtail. Very little clover. I overseeded with clover last weekend right before we got 1.5” rain. Then just mowed it down a couple days ago.

Not sure if I should nuke it all and start over with a completely different method, like prepping the soil with a disk (haven’t used a disk for 4 years). Or try to kill the grass with some clethedim. Or something else.

Any wisdom would be appreciated.
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Foxtail is a low-calcium weed. I also think you may have burnt your new small seeds by planting in July. If you're in Iowa, I'd wait until late August/early September to be spreading perennial clovers. I'd also wait until late august to do any spraying. You want those weeds to be done after you spray them off and no new flush to come after. If you do it early to mid summer, you're gonna get another crop to battle. You can't really spray foxtail because there's nothing to grab the chemical. It's just stem and seed head.

I'd get some calcium out there, zap it once more, and flip it into:

Complex version: rye, balansa, yellow sweet clover, white sweet clover, chicory, plantain, and ragweed
Simple version: rye, balansa, chicory

 

[cbw]

Foxtail is a low-calcium weed. I also think you may have burnt your new small seeds by planting in July. If you're in Iowa, I'd wait until late August/early September to be spreading perennial clovers. I'd also wait until late august to do any spraying. You want those weeds to be done after you spray them off and no new flush to come after. If you do it early to mid summer, you're gonna get another crop to battle. You can't really spray foxtail because there's nothing to grab the chemical. It's just stem and seed head.

I'd get some calcium out there, zap it once more, and flip it into:

Complex version: rye, balansa, yellow sweet clover, white sweet clover, chicory, plantain, and ragweed
Simple version: rye, balansa, chicory

Thanks for input! I will plan to put some lime down this weekend. I’ll plan to spray gly+2,4D next week with a view to reseed on Labor Day.

I did take a soil test in this spot about 4 years ago. Will have to dig that up. (Not that it will mean too much now)


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[Foggy47]

The pic below is a thumbnail pic from my Cuddlink camera today. It's about 1/3 acre plot that has been "under development" land that has some pretty poor sand / soil. It's surrounded by good cover. I suppose I have planted some buckwheat, rye, clover and more in this plot for over 7 years.....never achieving much of a result. Only amendment has been a bit of pell lime a few year ago. This year, after mowing down the rye to get a free re-seed.....this plot was almost immediately filled with Marestail.....and little else. I figured the plot was lost once again. I mowed the Marestail before it went to seed.......and I don't think I sprayed any herbicide (?). There was a little sign of the clover which I had drilled last fall with the winter rye. But now, the clover has come in like gangbusters. Really looks like a great plot now......and the rye I mowed appears to have germinated too. I think the wet summer pulled this plot through.......and hopefully it will look good again next year now that I got some roots established. I did get some chicory to grow here as well. The clover is now well established and it's got critters feeding in it every day.

I'm almost baffled by how well some of these plots, which I was ready to give up on....have come back this year. Timely rains and the seeds sown in the past have been a relief this year.

 

[SD51555]

The pic below is a thumbnail pic from my Cuddlink camera today. It's about 1/3 acre plot that has been "under development" land that has some pretty poor sand / soil. It's surrounded by good cover. I suppose I have planted some buckwheat, rye, clover and more in this plot for over 7 years.....never achieving much of a result. Only amendment has been a bit of pell lime a few year ago. This year, after mowing down the rye to get a free re-seed.....this plot was almost immediately filled with Marestail.....and little else. I figured the plot was lost once again. I mowed the Marestail before it went to seed.......and I don't think I sprayed any herbicide (?). There was a little sign of the clover which I had drilled last fall with the winter rye. But now, the clover has come in like gangbusters. Really looks like a great plot now......and the rye I mowed appears to have germinated too. I think the wet summer pulled this plot through.......and hopefully it will look good again next year now that I got some roots established. I did get some chicory to grow here as well. The clover is now well established and it's got critters feeding in it every day.

I'm almost baffled by how well some of these plots, which I was ready to give up on....have come back this year. Timely rains and the seeds sown in the past have been a relief this year.

For those really tough spots, I wonder if you don't roll them instead of mowing the rye next year, to slow down the decomp on your rye residue, and instead focus on keeping that layer there to hold moisture and keep the sand cool?

 

[Foggy47]

I've had similar failures with broadcasted fall clover and I think it was a result of shade tolerant preexisting weeds in the rye exploding after crimping/cultipacking. They're tiny in the fall but have too much of a head start on the clover for the clover to compete. They don't look like much when you're dealing with thick rye residue. Did you spray anything on those plots last fall before/after drilling? I've had better success if I spray first, then go in and broadcast rye/clover, then cultipack. I hope to eventually quit spraying, but for now, I have too much seed in the seedbank. The rye stunts it all spring and summer but it survives long enough for me to release it by cultipacking the rye. Other possibilities include residual herbicide toxicity, or too much rye straw killing your recently germinated clover seedlings. I think the too deep theory is unlikely since you should have had it come up in areas where the drill was uneven or going over rocks/stumps/etc. Regardless, don't till it. I made that mistake in my woods plots when I got a tractor/disk. We had previously don't very light tillage with UTV equipment and had great plots (with lots of spraying). Tilling brought up a flush of weeds unlike anything I'd ever seen before. I like the idea of Butyrac or mowing or both as mentioned above. See what happens. If you don't like the result, hit it with Gly and drill grains/clover at your usual time.

Looking back, and re-reading this thread to learn from it......^ THIS is likely the best synopsis of what happened and my experience this year. Patience, some timely rolling, rains, mowing, herbicide application, and maybe a bit of luck, was the winning strategy given my scenario this year. Thanks for so much great advice here by so many. My disk is getting rusty....lol.