spring planted winter rye?

[Rit]

Does anyone just let their rye/oats go to seed and die back naturally without cutting it in the summer or fall? Would the seed still be viable for self re-seeding? Are there any negative impacts by leaving it standing all summer?

I let mine go to seed but mowed it. The one negative if you will is depending on what you are planting the plot into in the fall. If it’s just more WR then not a big deal. If it’s something like brassicas that require N then you will have some issues if you don’t add N. The decomposing WR that will now be winter rye straw has a C:N ratio of around 80:1 and will tie up available N for some time while it decomposes. I never plant straight stands of WR. There is usually clover, radishes etc. But it does reseed itself and who doesn’t like free seed?

One thing to be aware of if you have the invasive species Buckthorn is that it can have an effect on WR planted before September 1st. I have loads of Buckthorn and planted early August last year with a negative affect. I posted about it in the TNM thread.

 

[pinetag14]

Thanks for the info guys. I'll likely wait until Aug/Sep before mowing it down and that way I can keep the cover in there for the summer. I already have some ladino clover growing along with my rye and oats so if i wanted to throw some red or crimson clover in the mix this fall and then mow, does that sound like it would work out well? Or would the seeding rate of the terminated rye be too high?

 

[bornagain62511]

Some of you might remember me from the "QDMA forums" on which I went by the name "whitetail fanatic" On our farm here in Southwestern Wisconsin, I planted 4.10 acres on May 15 with about 80 pounds per acre of winter rye and about 2 pounds per acre of Winfred Forage Brassica. We've gotten plenty of rain since then and it looks like it's off to a good start. It will be very interesting to see how this turns out.

Below are some photos. The first photo is looking east, you can see my home just a bit to the left of the center of the photo, and the barn/sheds/silo to the right. It's hard to tell from the photo because it looks like the spruce trees are blocking the home, but God has blessed me with an amazing view to the west up our valley in which the food plots are located as well as all the other habitat photos below. I might have to do some more trimming of those spruce trees in the years to come to open up my view a bit more.

The second photo is looking west. In this photo, to the right of the food plot is some cave in rock switchgrass coming up, we burned it about a month ago. To the right of that, you can barely see the edge of an area about 7.8 acres in size that we fenced off with electrified 8 strand, hi tensile 12.5 gauge steel wire and inside that we have white cedar, red osier dogwood, apple trees, and some chokecherries. A couple more growing seasons we will be able to take the fence down and let the deer enjoy what should be some of the best deer habitat in southern Wisconsin! To the left of the food plot in that second photo, on the other side of the tree line is about 6.5 acres of apple trees, almost all of them have been t-budded with varieties like Galarina, Liberty, Enterprise, northwest Greening, winecrisp and a few other varieties.

In the third and most zoomed in photo you can see the Winfred coming up with the rye.





I have some photos below of the apple trees. The largest ones are about 12 to 15 years old and 6" to 7" in diameter. I remember when I first started t-budding these trees and would dream about seeing them like they are now!






Below are some chokecherries in blossom. The last photo I am standing in the 7.8 acre enclosure of white cedar, dogwoods, apple, and chokecherry looking south across the valley towards the switchgrass, food plot, and the largest apple orchard (deer plot!) of about 6.5 acres.

 

[bornagain62511]

Here are some photos of the same plots, today June 13 at 4 weeks since planting on May 15. We've had lots of rainy cooler than normal weather.

Notice the test strip where there is no rye, only the Winfred brassica and how many weeds there are compared to where there is rye. Good thing I only did one short strip without the rye. It makes a huge difference in keeping the weeds suppressed.

I planted 4.10 acres, seeded at a rate of about 2 pounds per acre of Winfred forage brassica and 80 pounds per acre rye.

 

[Kooch]

@bornagain62511 What's the goal of this plot? Are you hoping to have Fall deer food from this planting or is it a Summer cover crop? Looks great.

 

[bornagain62511]

The deer around here love to feed on the rye and Winfred brassica from September thru March, and even into mid April. We've had large groups of deer feeding on the stems of the Winfred in mid April (which was planted the previous summer) after all the leaves were consumed, the stems had turned brown, and there was new green growth on alfalfa and clover in plots right next to that. The dead brown stems must still be hi in protein and carbohydrates, otherwise they would never be feeding on them like that in mid April when new green growth is available right next to the plot of brassica. The Winfred leaves stay nice and green long into winter at very cold temperatures. I haven't found anything that I can plant in a food plot that they like to feed on more than Winfred brassica from December through March. They are already eating the Winfred a little right now, here in mid June. Hopefully they don't feed on it too much until fall comes, but if they do, the rye will always be there right below the Winfred canopy if they browse it that heavily before fall/winter.

By planting rye and Winfred brassica together this early, I'm hoping to have a hi tonnage of food for them all fall and into early spring. Rye and Winfred brassica are the 2 best things I've planted for deer when considering overall attraction and ability to feed hi numbers of deer for the most amount of time from September through mid April.

The brassica and rye will not flower or go to seed this year. The rye will seed out next summer (2020). The producers of Winfred assured me that it will not go to seed if planted even as early as March or April. The Winfred plant is similar to dwarf Essex rape, but it gets much larger in height and overall size, and the deer seem to like the flavor more since it seems to be a bit sweeter than dwarf Essex rape. From what I've read, the rye will reach a certain height (10-12"??) and not really get much taller, but thicker with more shoots sprouting up. So I'm hoping at that point the Winfred will grow over the top, but not completely shade out the rye, which is why the Winfred was kept low, at 2 pounds per acre. We've had Winfred get waist hi or taller by October when planted in mid-late July around here.

I'm not sure how this will all work out since I've never mixed Winfred and rye, and never planted either one this early, but if it turns out like I think, it will be the best and most attractive food plot we've ever had for fall thru early spring . Stay tuned...…….!

 

[Kooch]

I hope it works. I'm subscribed. I'm pretty far North, and have a very short growing season. I can see myself doing something like this as well, depending on your outcome. If the WR comes on strong next year like you hope, a guy could just broadcast more brassica then mow the rye after it matures and start over. I guess that wouldn't give the brassica enough time to really put on a lot of growth like you're hoping.

A better bet might be to terminate the WR once it exits the super tender and tasty to deer phase and start over.

No dice for me this year since I've already bought a pile of expensive seeds to mix, along with some freebies from a friend. But, like I said, I'm very interested in simplifying my life and this works out it seems like it'd do just that.

 

[bornagain62511]

I hope it works. I'm subscribed. I'm pretty far North, and have a very short growing season. I can see myself doing something like this as well, depending on your outcome. If the WR comes on strong next year like you hope, a guy could just broadcast more brassica then mow the rye after it matures and start over. I guess that wouldn't give the brassica enough time to really put on a lot of growth like you're hoping.

A better bet might be to terminate the WR once it exits the super tender and tasty to deer phase and start over.

No dice for me this year since I've already bought a pile of expensive seeds to mix, along with some freebies from a friend. But, like I said, I'm very interested in simplifying my life and this works out it seems like it'd do just that.

If it works well this year, I will plan to till the rye into the soil next April after the deer have lost interest in eating the rye or what's left of the brassica stalks, and then plant the same thing over again with rye and Winfred brassica.

Another option I might consider trying some time would be to let the rye go to seed and just before it reaches full maturity, roll the rye over after the rye has reached the stage where it will not regrow, and then no-till rye and Winfred brassica into the rolled rye.

 

[birdog]

Bornagain - 10-12" rye? My WR is close to 6ft tall!

 

[bornagain62511]

Bornagain - 10-12" rye? My WR is close to 6ft tall!

Yes, our winter rye that we planted last summer and have not mowed or tilled in this spring is about 6 feet tall right now too, and seeding out.

I think you are misunderstanding or never read the previous posts in this thread or other threads. Winter rye will not grow that tall or seed out until it goes through a winter dormancy period. That's one of the main points of this whole thread. Winter rye planted in spring or early summer provides a lot more tonnage as it sends up multiple shoots but never gets very tall until it goes through winter dormancy. This extra tonnage is important for deer in northern climates with cold temps and deep snow. And the rye will be just as nutritious and palatable in fall and winter because nutrient content and palatability does not start to drop until the following year when the rye begins to mature and goes to seed like it is now on rye that was planted last year.

 

[birdog]

Yes, our winter rye that we planted last summer and have not mowed or tilled in this spring is about 6 feet tall right now too, and seeding out.

I think you are misunderstanding or never read the previous posts in this thread or other threads. Winter rye will not grow that tall or seed out until it goes through a winter dormancy period. That's one of the main points of this whole thread. Winter rye planted in spring or early summer provides a lot more tonnage as it sends up multiple shoots but never gets very tall until it goes through winter dormancy. This extra tonnage is important for deer in northern climates with cold temps and deep snow. And the rye will be just as nutritious and palatable in fall and winter because nutrient content and palatability does not start to drop until the following year when the rye begins to mature and goes to seed like it is now on rye that was planted last year.

I read the entire thread and completely misunderstood the difference you just pointed out with spring planted WR. I learn something new all the time from you guy's. Thank you for clarifying!

 

[Kooch]

Please keep the pictures coming as this progresses and be sure to let us know how it all works out. I sure would like to simplify my mess.

 

[weekender21]

I'll be on my property in the mountains of NC Sunday. Can't wait to see the progress of my March planted WR and MRC. It was only 2-4" the first week of May.

 

[bornagain62511]

I read the entire thread and completely misunderstood the difference you just pointed out with spring planted WR. I learn something new all the time from you guy's. Thank you for clarifying!

You're welcome!

I'll be on my property in the mountains of NC Sunday. Can't wait to see the progress of my March planted WR and MRC. It was only 2-4" the first week of May.

Please let us know how it's doing. I would love to see some photos!

Please keep the pictures coming as this progresses and be sure to let us know how it all works out. I sure would like to simplify my mess.

will do!

 

[leexrayshady]

You're welcome!



Please let us know how it's doing. I would love to see some photos!



will do!

I saved links to your threads from the qdma site on t budding to bad they dont work anymore I would love to see updates on your trees and directions again

 

[bornagain62511]

I saved links to your threads from the qdma site on t budding to bad they dont work anymore I would love to see updates on your trees and directions again

One thing I've tried the last couple of years and learned from is inverted T-budding. in other words, instead of making the cut in the rootstock like a normal "T", I made the cut like an inverted, or upside down "T". I will be going back to the normal upright "T" this year. That seems to work better. What seemed to happen more often with the inverted "T" budding is that the bud would more often put out new growth within the weeks or months following the "T-budding" process and it would put on an inch or so of new growth before cold weather arrives in the fall. then next spring those buds do not seem to come back to life as often. Long story short, it seems like the success rate goes down when I tried inverted "T budding" as compared to regular upright "T budding"

Our apple trees were hit really hard this past winter with temperatures as low as -40F not including wind chill. Another thing I've learned is not to prune or trim any branches after the normal spring time pruning season. I had some trees that were looking really nice and were putting on a lot of growth 2 to 3 years after "T budding" and I pruned off some of the excessive branching on these young trees. Those that I pruned in mid to late summer had a much higher rate of winter kill. Some trees are hardly leafing out after this winter's severe cold, and some trees completely died off. Even some mature fruit producing trees, 3" to 5" in diameter completely died off. Another thing I've learned, do not use thick layers of straw or hay or animal bedding as a mulch around apple trees. Seems the soil can get water logged and not "breath" as it should. And the mice tend to hang out and dig tunnels around the trees with thick straw mulch. I also heard that the roots can grow so close to the surface of the soil, or even start growing into the mulch and that's not good when cold winter weather comes and can really do damage to those shallow roots.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I have planted winter rye in the spring in the past. It grew pretty decent, it got to about 2 feet tall, but the deer really didn’t eat it in the fall like I hoped. Then the next spring it grew as expected and the deer ate it again until it got stemmy. It worked great for weed suppression, and green fertilizer, but in my experience the deer lost interest about September the first year. Now I didn’t exactly plant in the spring, but I did in Early June. Let us know how it works for you, it maybe worth another try.

 

[bornagain62511]

I have planted winter rye in the spring in the past. It grew pretty decent, it got to about 2 feet tall, but the deer really didn’t eat it in the fall like I hoped. Then the next spring it grew as expected and the deer ate it again until it got stemmy. It worked great for weed suppression, and green fertilizer, but in my experience the deer lost interest about September the first year. Now I didn’t exactly plant in the spring, but I did in Early June. Let us know how it works for you, it maybe worth another try.

Was that planted in an area where you had food plots before and deer were used to coming there to feed? What is the deer density like in that area?

I agree, there are other things that would be more attractive than spring planted rye to deer feeding in the fall. If I planted rye in mid to late August right next to this rye that was planted in May, I'm sure the deer would feed on the younger August planted rye more than the May planted rye right next to it. Or oats or radishes would get even more attraction in the fall. But our food plots are in an area where we've had food plots for over 20 years and the deer density is fairly hi. The deer are trained over multiple generations to come to our food plots to feed and when you have good food sources that last through the winter and into early spring in areas with cold and lots of snow, this training or conditioning gets even stronger as the years go by. To sum up, my goal is to get the most tonnage of food that will feed the most deer from September through March. I think we can attract and hold the most deer possible by planting rye/brassica in spring compared to other options (this year will tell me if my hunch is correct or not). With a couple acres of alfalfa in our food plot rotation, in addition to spring planted rye and brassica, and with low hunting pressure during September through the hunting season, many of the local deer don't want to go anywhere else to feed, even if they had some younger more tender rye, oats, or radishes, or soybeans or corn just over the hill on the neighboring property.

in addition to the food plots, its even more important that we have great habitat, low human pressure, and hundreds of fruiting apple trees. because of that, we don't need to have the most attractive plants in our food plots. I think it's more important for us to have the most tonnage of food.

Yes there are more attractive and slightly more nutritious food sources for the deer in out area from September, October, and November, but once December comes, there isn't much that can beat rye and brassica for nutrition and attraction from then through mid April (except for maybe hundreds of apple trees with fruit hanging and slowly dropping through the winter months!). And in a couple of years, when we can take down or 8 acre enclosure the deer will have access to white cedar, chokecherry, red osier dogwood, and more apple trees! Then the tonnage from spring planted rye and brassica will be even more important because our property's deer holding capacity will go up dramatically, especially from late fall through the winter.

 

[weekender21]

This particular plot has very little weed competition. WR planted in March with MRC. I added BW the first week of May.

WR is now 12” on average. I did find some taller and one 4’ with a seed head....over achiever.

The spring planted WR in this plot is doing great too although the saplings and weeds are outpacing my crop. I added 50 pounds of BW two days ago. We’ve had 2-3 inches of rain since. Hitting it with the trimmer this week.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[James P. Bipps]

6/25/19,

Where did you buy your Winfred brassica? How much does it cost?