Reviving old orchard trees

[bigboreblr]

I have some really old apple trees. Im guessing here, 50-75 years old atleast. Some are on their way out, but some are somewhat ok. My best produces haven't been too good the last year or two.

Any tips? Treatments?

When there's a dry spell in the area, I dumpe 5 or 10 gallon of water around the canopy edge. I usually put a bit of miracle grow in there.

Any special consideration as to pruning old trees?

Ill add some pics in a few days.

 

[Telemark]

Remove all the dead wood, and see what you are left with. Then go in and cut out crossing branches and anything that makes the tree too tall or too wide. If pruning in winter, try to cut away 10-20% of the canopy. If pruning in summer, you can take out a bit more, maybe 30% of the canopy.

 

[TreeDaddy]

Check out the tree pruning threads here

bill

 

[Natty Bumppo]

I have been reviving old apple orchards since buying my house in 2001. We have no mast and no ag around here...but wild apples grow like weeds. I'll echo what telemark said...start with removing dead wood and any crossing branches. If you are releasing these trees for the first time, I would be cautious doing too much pruning the first year. Release them first...maybe do some minimal pruning and see how they respond. Then 2nd year after release go in and do some pruning.

 

[Apple Junkie]

I love releasing old apple trees that have been around forever. Telemark and Natty hit the nail on the head with their comments. The only thing I might add is that if you want to force some new branches to fill in dead spots, you can pick a healthy sucker and cut a notch above the bud where you want the new lateral or leader to form. You can even take your chain saw and cut maybe a quarter inch or so into the trunk where you want a new "stem" or branch to grow. You will most likely get sucking there the following year that can be the start of a new stem to revive a really old tree. The trees I work with are really old and narely, so if you're working with old but decent trees to begin with, stick with Telemark and Natty's advice.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I never tried the chainsaw trick, but cutting notches above a bud like your pic has worked for me.

 

[TreeDaddy]

What happens if you prune more than 20% of canopy on fruit tree?

How does this harm the tree?

bill

 

[Telemark]

What happens if you prune more than 20% of canopy on fruit tree?

How does this harm the tree?

bill

It doesn't harm the tree. But it will likely cause the tree to grow like a bush.

 

[Teeder]

It doesn't harm the tree. But it will likely cause the tree to grow like a bush.

That's been my problem in the past. Impatient!

 

[Natty Bumppo]

It doesn't harm the tree. But it will likely cause the tree to grow like a bush.

I've always understood that if you remove too much of the canopy of an apple (or any tree for that matter) there will not be enough leaf area to support photosynthesis. The tree will not produce enough glucose to be stored as starch in the roots for its metabolic needs, and the tree could become stressed. Worst case scenario it dies.

 

[Telemark]

I've always understood that if you remove too much of the canopy of an apple (or any tree for that matter) there will not be enough leaf area to support photosynthesis. The tree will not produce enough glucose to be stored as starch in the roots for its metabolic needs, and the tree could become stressed. Worst case scenario it dies.

That has not been my experience. For some trees, yes you can even kill them that way. But for many trees, the imbalance will just cause the tree to push a lot of green growth wherever there are dormant buds.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

That has not been my experience. For some trees, yes you can even kill them that way. But for many trees, the imbalance will just cause the tree to push a lot of green growth wherever there are dormant buds.

My BIL has been pruning his wild apples heavily for about 6 years now...too heavily IMO. And they just don't look good. They look bony and dry. They are not verdant. They rarely produce. They drop their leaves by late summer. Personally I think he prunes too much and has stressed them.

You always hear that 30% rule. I assume it's based on some decent science somewhere?

I agree though that you do get the bush affect with a heavy pruning of a healthy tree.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Natty & Telemark -
I think you're both right. Depending on the tree and its condition, too much pruning can weaken a tree due to lack of leaf surface. If the tree is fairly healthy, it can cause the tree to push lots (maybe too much) vegetative growth in the form of water sprouts. I made that mistake some years ago on an older apple tree at camp. A local orchard owner had told me that pruning an apple tree is "just like putting fertilizer on it" - so I thought - I'll prune this baby GOOD. I hadn't asked the orchard owner HOW MUCH to prune, I just went wild. Bad idea!!! That tree had so many water sprouts the next summer, it looked like a bristle brush. Water sprouts don't produce fruit, so I had to prune even more of them out to improve the tree. ( After much more research and asking more questions!!! )

As many university professors advise, each tree is its own case. All trees won't require the same, broad-brush treatment.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

Natty & Telemark -
I think you're both right. Depending on the tree and its condition, too much pruning can weaken a tree due to lack of leaf surface. If the tree is fairly healthy, it can cause the tree to push lots (maybe too much) vegetative growth in the form of water sprouts. I made that mistake some years ago on an older apple tree at camp. A local orchard owner had told me that pruning an apple tree is "just like putting fertilizer on it" - so I thought - I'll prune this baby GOOD. I hadn't asked the orchard owner HOW MUCH to prune, I just went wild. Bad idea!!! That tree had so many water sprouts the next summer, it looked like a bristle brush. Water sprouts don't produce fruit, so I had to prune even more of them out to improve the tree. ( After much more research and asking more questions!!! )

As many university professors advise, each tree is its own case. All trees won't require the same, broad-brush treatment.

Interesting. Thanks bows. So the general rule of not pruning more than 30% has 2 issues...1) it can limit leaf area and stress trees, especially if they are unhealthy and 2) if trees are vigorous and healthy, it results in massive wasteful growth in the form of water sprouts. So instead of growing fruit you're just growing wood.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Over ferizing does the same thing.

 

[chickenlittle]

I got enough pruning to do without looking for more work. I'd only aggressively pruning a huge old tree if I felt it really needed it. I'd be looking at whether taking out 2 or 3 limbs with chainsaw would be enough to open it up and see how it responds.

But if my goal was to really manage it as a home orchard, I would be aggressive. The 30% rule that came from who knows where wouldn't be my worry. I'd focus on getting to the structure/scaffolding I want right away. Use a chainsaw to remove any big limbs I don't want. Get it to the height/size I want. Come back in mid summer and remove the new watersprouts to push growth where I want. Then look to transition to more of a maintenance mode where you lop out the crossing stuff and a big, mature limb or two every 2-3 years rather than intensively pruning small stuff out every year.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I agree. Pruning trees isn’t my idea of a fun weekend. I only do it when I have too, or about every other year which ever happens least.

I can send you some bears, they will trim them for you several times a year, free of charge!

 

[bigboreblr]

My last home had a 30ft tall apple tree. Took a 12ft ladder and cut off the top 12ft or so. That thing took right off the 2nd year.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I can send you some bears, they will trim them for you several times a year, free of charge!

We're well-stocked, so you can keep your bears 4W!! Nice of you to think of the rest of us though ...........

I think having bears changes the whole picture of what the goals are for apple trees. You guys that don't have bears can thank your lucky stars - life's easier then. In our case, we need the biggest, woodiest, heavy-framed trees we can grow. That's one of the reasons we planted more than we need for deer attraction - we're trying to outgrow what the bears can totally destroy. If we can get a number of trees to a size that can SURVIVE a bear climbing in them, we'll be doing alright. Our oldest apple trees are over 50 / 60 years old - big and very woody. If bears climb up in them, they can't kill those trees. And in order to get to the most apples, they have to try climbing out the higher, thinner limbs. I watched a bear fall about 25 ft. to the ground doing that. Huge thump and the bear ran off in high gear!! I'll take that.

 

[Telemark]

My BIL has been pruning his wild apples heavily for about 6 years now...too heavily IMO. And they just don't look good. They look bony and dry. They are not verdant. They rarely produce. They drop their leaves by late summer. Personally I think he prunes too much and has stressed them.

You always hear that 30% rule. I assume it's based on some decent science somewhere?

I agree though that you do get the bush affect with a heavy pruning of a healthy tree.

My neighbor does that. His tree looks awful and hasn't produced anything for a few years since he butchered it.