Research on planting techniques

[Brokenbear]

SD I hear what you are saying but I think the game we speak of has a lot of variables that studies just have not been made on ..
mono culture vs multi species plantings are.. in a way not even comparable ..
Fair tolerance to "some" weed presence for plotters vs no tolerance of weeds for mono row croppers ..
A vast array of plant species rotating in and out of a plotters mixes often featuring spring,summer, fall and winter seeding vs one crop/yr or 2/yr occasionally and rare is the 3/yr
And of course as plotters we do not exactly raise a cash crop but we do harvest the gratification of rebuilding and or protecting the soil

We live in both hills and flat ground and I can tell you there are guys doing green and mono type crops successfully .. they do have dirt after beans/corn harvest for two weeks then up comes the wheat, barley, radishes or oats ..come spring chem kill into foot tall weed free wheat and the next no-till mono crop goes in ..

the above "cycle" is claimed by those doing it to be far less fuel, chemical and labor ..less yield ..yes but less input cost

I also suspect another couple of wild cards are in play with the guys doing the mono green cycle ..the farmer has other businesses than just farming so freed up to do other income producing actions I think plays a roll ..another and probably bigger is weather in that they can strike quicker and on more acres with no-till vs the traditional tillage process where each step needs the weather just right

Last also is soil type and zone .. which no doubt is a factor to what will and won't work

Bear

 

[Tree Spud]

Sure. They blanket a field. I'll go past a few fields like that shortly and take a pic. If not sprayed they go to seed, use up fertility, and make awesome habitat for crop pests. The guys who are on top of things make a pass with the sprayer in fall. We see a lot of henbit, purple deadnettle, shepherds purse, chickweed, and a little clumpgrass which the name escapes me right now. Although I guess you can say the stuff kinda serves as a cover crop, I don't think it's ideal.

Thanks. I would think winter cover crops positives would outweigh the downside. I see too many farmers around my area rough tilling their fields and leaving soil exposed all winter. A cover crop, wheat, WR, etc. would certainly prevent erosion and add OM back into the soil.

I do see some planting pre-winter cover crops and have seen a few large crimpers. I am no expert on farming, or even food plotting, But I often wonder about the balance between soil health and crop production approaches.

 

[Tree Spud]

Remember the government already showed their hand and we will be facing a global food shortage in the near future according to the "experts". Hard to believe a country that exports 70% of the food we grow here because we only need 30% to feed our people in this country will be short on food soon. HUH

Remember, the false promise of fuel from corn ethanol. There are ~ 93 million acres of corn planting in the US and 40% of that is for ethanol. We won't be running out of food.

 

[Skeeter]

That’s the interesting split in farm thinking. There are two distinct teams when it comes to green bridge. One team seeks an absolute elimination of the GB, the other team seeks to establish a robust GB. Both can be successful, but both require dramatically different management tactics.

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Tillage and herbicide are "natural" methods for weed and pest management?!

 

[FarmerDan]

When I was a young man I wasn't much interested in history. I was more concerned about what was going to happen today and what my future looked like. Now that I am old I realize I cannot understand what's happening today and what the future might hold if I have no grasp of history.

How to keep this short? My experience started in the early 1960's. Farms were small and were operated much like many of you wish for today. Lot's of operations went bankrupt for any number of reasons leading to financial insecurity which led to the near impossibility of access to working capital. Farmland was taxed at 'best use' values - building lots and subdivisions. The old school farmers gave up and moved into industry. Some of their generation strapped down, got educated on what were then thought of as best practices. Once dad got out of the way the game was on.

Most of today's farmers are smarter and attentive to any opportunity or threat. Most, but not all, know how to balance the two. It's not only production. It's also finance and marketing and organization and management.

If you understand the history of production agriculture you know that the tons of herbicides used is a fraction of what it was decades ago. The reductions in tons of soils lost thru erosion is astounding. If a producer wishes to take advantage of federal programs like crop insurance and weather disaster payment programs a soil conservation plan must be developed and practiced. Farmers cry it's too invasive, the penalties for noncompliance too severe. Those outside argue the opposite.

There will always be more to do, more gains to be had, but I would hope we can, if only briefly, stop for a moment to consider how far we have come.

Regenerative ag? I am in my early 70s. Until recently I couldn't get my head around it. What I once chuckled about is now something that commands some of my attention. It will never become a religion to me but my eyes are open to it's value. It often takes a new generation to fully grasp and implement novel and valuable concepts. I am encouraged.

 

[omicron1792]

It looks like some form of conservation farming is the norm, with complete no till farming approaching 50%.

Adoption of conservation tillage has increased over the past two decades on acreage planted to major U.S. cash crops

The share of acreage for major cash crops—wheat, corn, soybeans, and cotton—that are planted using conservation tillage has increased over the past two decades in the United States. Conservation tillage, which includes no-till and mulch till, reduces soil disturbance and preserves more crop...

www.ers.usda.gov

 

[jsasker007]

Remember, the false promise of fuel from corn ethanol. There are ~ 93 million acres of corn planting in the US and 40% of that is for ethanol. We won't be running out of food.

I myself will never underestimate our governments ability to do things that are not of good intentions for the citizens here. If they said there will be a food shortage, I don't doubt for one second that they couldn't create a shortage if they wanted to. If we export too much and don't keep enough for ourselves we will have a shortage. I will NEVER trust anything our government does or says. jmo

 

[Mortenson]

I myself will never underestimate our governments ability to do things that are not of good intentions for the citizens here. If they said there will be a food shortage, I don't doubt for one second that they couldn't create a shortage if they wanted to. If we export too much and don't keep enough for ourselves we will have a shortage. I will NEVER trust anything our government does or says. jmo

And the govt is subsidizing and promoting the use of cover crops. I know the big beef with ethanol in many peoples' eyes is the govt involvement. Cover crops in the name of global warming. Ethanol, no-till, and cover crops are all in bed with each other. Carbon pipelines, carbon scores, responsible farming audits. Some people are getting very wealthy off these schemes.

 

[matinc]

Sorry little off track but I now are there are carbon programs from businesses to pay landowners above 40 acres to keep them so called carbon neutral. Has anyone tried this.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

The drought last year caused the deer to wipe out my soybean plots, so I overseeded those areas with winter rye last August. Last night I dug up my fields to prep for planting and the winter rye was extremely thick and difficult to dig through with my old tractor and digger. I'm sure the winter rye reduced erosion and is adding some organic matter, but I'm a little concerned that it will negatively impact the corn that will be planted there shortly. It will be interesting to see how this turns out, but the massive residue from cover crops is both good and bad.

 

[davidhelmly]

The drought last year caused the deer to wipe out my soybean plots, so I overseeded those areas with winter rye last August. Last night I dug up my fields to prep for planting and the winter rye was extremely thick and difficult to dig through with my old tractor and digger. I'm sure the winter rye reduced erosion and is adding some organic matter, but I'm a little concerned that it will negatively impact the corn that will be planted there shortly. It will be interesting to see how this turns out, but the massive residue from cover crops is both good and bad.

Im just curious, what is your definition of “dug up”?

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

Im just curious, what is your definition of “dug up”?

I have a 6' wide 3 row cultivator on a 3 point hitch that I use to prep the ground before planting. It usually does pretty well with crop residue and even sod, but the 2' tall rye was a little tougher to work with.

 

[Mortenson]

Here's a rye cover crop that my across the fence neighbor just sprayed/terminated a few days ago. Brought some mud out on the road. If the climate crowd wants to push this, then every detail should be tallied up. That was 2 more passes with large, diesel chugging machinery. 1 to plant it and 1 to terminate it. How many passes were required on the seed end of it? At least 2 - 1 for planting it and 1 for harvesting it. I believe rye grown for seed also is well fertilized, including Nitrogen. I don't really think this particular field needed the cover crop. The only erosion it would face is possibly a few weeks of being vulnerable to wind. There are no waterways or gullies. The farmer likes experimenting. Will be interesting to see what his crop looks like come late summer.

 

[omicron1792]

Here's a rye cover crop that my across the fence neighbor just sprayed/terminated a few days ago. Brought some mud out on the road. If the climate crowd wants to push this, then every detail should be tallied up. That was 2 more passes with large, diesel chugging machinery. 1 to plant it and 1 to terminate it. How many passes were required on the seed end of it? At least 2 - 1 for planting it and 1 for harvesting it. I believe rye grown for seed also is well fertilized, including Nitrogen. I don't really think this particular field needed the cover crop. The only erosion it would face is possibly a few weeks of being vulnerable to wind. There are no waterways or gullies. The farmer likes experimenting. Will be interesting to see what his crop looks like come late summer.

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Appears he hasn’t read up enough on cover crops and no till. At the least he should be using less passes with tractor not more.

I wouldn’t look at one farmers mistakes and say cover crops and no till are bad

 

[Mortenson]

Never said they were bad. And I think it remains to be seen if this field was a mistake. I think they have their time and place. Sometimes they work beautifully. Sometimes they end in epic failure. Like I said, it will be interesting to watch. Everyone's trying to learn.

 

[Tree Spud]

Here's a rye cover crop that my across the fence neighbor just sprayed/terminated a few days ago. Brought some mud out on the road. If the climate crowd wants to push this, then every detail should be tallied up. That was 2 more passes with large, diesel chugging machinery. 1 to plant it and 1 to terminate it. How many passes were required on the seed end of it? At least 2 - 1 for planting it and 1 for harvesting it. I believe rye grown for seed also is well fertilized, including Nitrogen. I don't really think this particular field needed the cover crop. The only erosion it would face is possibly a few weeks of being vulnerable to wind. There are no waterways or gullies. The farmer likes experimenting. Will be interesting to see what his crop looks like come late summer.

View attachment 64418

Curious why he did not consider crimping? Would be less expensive that herbicides depending how must he used. I realize that crimping would probably more passes that a sprayer which would have wider coverage, but the crimper may pay for itself in a couple years.

 

[omicron1792]

Never said they were bad. And I think it remains to be seen if this field was a mistake. I think they have their time and place. Sometimes they work beautifully. Sometimes they end in epic failure. Like I said, it will be interesting to watch. Everyone's trying to learn.

I can see how it would be a difficult transition for a small farmer who lives on what he brings in yearly. A lot of risk and a bit like jumping right into the deep end.

 

[Mortenson]

Curious why he did not consider crimping? Would be less expensive that herbicides depending how must he used. I realize that crimping would probably more passes that a sprayer which would have wider coverage, but the crimper may pay for itself in a couple years.

I'm pretty sure he owns a giant crimper. Not sure what all goes into the decision making.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Hey @Mortenson, do farmers have an idea of how other farmers in their area are doing financially. I know that’s a weird question with a million variables, but is it obvious when someone is doing very well as opposed to someone who is not? And if it’s known, what are the guys doing who are doing well by and large? Conventional tillage, no cover crops, corn/bean/wheat rotation? Is scale always a big difference makers, meaning it’s the guy who covers the most ground making the most money? I just wonder if things like no till and cover crops are profitable over conventional methods would more people be doing it or is farming a classic case of doing something because it’s he way it’s always been done?

 

[Tree Spud]

Hey @Mortenson, do farmers have an idea of how other farmers in their area are doing financially. I know that’s a weird question with a million variables, but is it obvious when someone is doing very well as opposed to someone who is not? And if it’s known, what are the guys doing who are doing well by and large? Conventional tillage, no cover crops, corn/bean/wheat rotation? Is scale always a big difference makers, meaning it’s the guy who covers the most ground making the most money? I just wonder if things like no till and cover crops are profitable over conventional methods would more people be doing it or is farming a classic case of doing something because it’s he way it’s always been done?

Every farmer I have talked to has claimed they can't make any and are barley squeaking by.