Recommending Apple Variety by score for Wildlife
- Thread starter Appleman
- Start date
sandbur
5 year old buck +
Bur,I have some crabs or near crabs that I like for deer and for human use.
Some should be available for next spring. I think they will be on dolgo rootstock.
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Is Buckman crab on the list? That one looks good from what I remember on previous posts
I had limited amounts of scion, but I think he had some take.
Small Chunk grafted some for me last spring and they are growing great. Buckman Crab and ABC should both be great for cider as well. ABC has the cherry flavor.
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Telemark
5 year old buck +
Perfect! I'll order some rootstock. I may try P18 for those, as the spot I am thinking of gets a bit soggy in Spring.
Apple Junkie
5 year old buck +
Personally, I have Florina, Liberty, and Franklin at the top of my preferred list. Enterprise and Galarina are great apples too, but my understanding is that they are not quite as disease resistant as the first three. That said, my Enterprise and Galarinas have never shown any disease issues at all, and are right behind my top three.
For me, Honeycrisp has been pretty wimpy and seems to struggle. I try to protect my trees from damage, but they are not pampered and have to thrive in field conditions. I am sure the Honeycrisp is a good apple, but it does not appear to be as hearty as the others in my experience.
A couple other varieties I’ve been pleased with are Wickson Crab, Ida Red, and Arkansas Black. Just my two cents.
aerospacefarmer
5 year old buck +
They would all score high on my list. All great apples
Appleman
5 year old buck +
I would give Liberty and Honeycrisp tied for 1st for my area. Enterprise is great but is somewhat biannual producing. Galarina in 5th leaf and still no fruit. Lost several to winter kill.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Franklin's are certainly an interesting apple for wildlife, but they are susceptible to some disease. I bought a pair of them this spring from Stark. They were bare root. I potted them up in 3 gal RB2s and started them early under lights. They arrived about the same time I was grafting GRIN scions to M111 and doing the same with them. These were very nice sized Franklins with ok looking root systems.
The Franklins grew great and each had at least 6" of new growth height as well as lots of leaves on the trunk. When the weather broke, I took all my trees out on my lower deck. It gets a little early morning sun and then the sun is indirect. Eventually I move my trees to the upper deck that gets full sun all morning but is shaded in the afternoon.
The Franklins never made it. They, along with some of the grafted trees that had good growth, got some kind of disease and died. I don't have any idea what the disease is. I had my first experience with it last year. I had grafted GRIN scions to seedling rootstock. The disease seemed to move from tree to tree, if they were touching, but not all trees seed susceptible. Some that were touching affected trees did not get it, and some that were a few trees away did, but direct contact seemed to increase the spread. Whatever the disease is, it also moved to my Seguins and killed them. The symptoms were that the new green growth would go limp. Once it started, I could find no way to stop it and the tree would eventually die. Moving a tree from other infected trees and clipping of the limp growth as soon as I saw it did not stop the disease. All trees that got it eventually died.
This year, only a few trees got it, but it included the pair of Franklins. I don't know the source. I thought maybe the seedlings I used were an issue last year, but I did not use any seedlings this year. Another possibility is that some particular variety from GRIN was the source. It is a mystery to me.
At any rate, I emailed Stark to let them know. I did not ask them to do anything, I was just documenting the loss. I presumed they would reply to the email asking me what I wanted to do. They did not. Instead, I got a shipping email that they had shipped two more trees. I probably would have preferred receiving them next year because it was fairly late, but since I'm growing these on my deck for the first growing season, I was ok with it.
The new trees were not nearly as large as the originals, but they had somewhat better roots. They were just starting to leaf out when they arrived. I potted them up and they have been growing vigorously on my deck ever since. They look very healthy and seem to be strong growers.
In defense of the Franklin, I will say that I'm out of the recommended zone for Franklin. It may be that whatever the disease is, it is more advantaged in my zone than further north in the recommended zones for Franklin. I'm in 7A.
Thanks,
Jack
The Franklins grew great and each had at least 6" of new growth height as well as lots of leaves on the trunk. When the weather broke, I took all my trees out on my lower deck. It gets a little early morning sun and then the sun is indirect. Eventually I move my trees to the upper deck that gets full sun all morning but is shaded in the afternoon.
The Franklins never made it. They, along with some of the grafted trees that had good growth, got some kind of disease and died. I don't have any idea what the disease is. I had my first experience with it last year. I had grafted GRIN scions to seedling rootstock. The disease seemed to move from tree to tree, if they were touching, but not all trees seed susceptible. Some that were touching affected trees did not get it, and some that were a few trees away did, but direct contact seemed to increase the spread. Whatever the disease is, it also moved to my Seguins and killed them. The symptoms were that the new green growth would go limp. Once it started, I could find no way to stop it and the tree would eventually die. Moving a tree from other infected trees and clipping of the limp growth as soon as I saw it did not stop the disease. All trees that got it eventually died.
This year, only a few trees got it, but it included the pair of Franklins. I don't know the source. I thought maybe the seedlings I used were an issue last year, but I did not use any seedlings this year. Another possibility is that some particular variety from GRIN was the source. It is a mystery to me.
At any rate, I emailed Stark to let them know. I did not ask them to do anything, I was just documenting the loss. I presumed they would reply to the email asking me what I wanted to do. They did not. Instead, I got a shipping email that they had shipped two more trees. I probably would have preferred receiving them next year because it was fairly late, but since I'm growing these on my deck for the first growing season, I was ok with it.
The new trees were not nearly as large as the originals, but they had somewhat better roots. They were just starting to leaf out when they arrived. I potted them up and they have been growing vigorously on my deck ever since. They look very healthy and seem to be strong growers.
In defense of the Franklin, I will say that I'm out of the recommended zone for Franklin. It may be that whatever the disease is, it is more advantaged in my zone than further north in the recommended zones for Franklin. I'm in 7A.
Thanks,
Jack
Appleman
5 year old buck +
Is it possible moving them to the upper deck is Heat stressing the varieties of trees that you are growing in pots. Are the pots black? My thoughts are, I am not familiar with any disease that causes the leaves to grow limp. Firelight is easy to identify taking on the look of a witches crook where the leaves turn black. It takes a while for the FB to translocate to the root system and eventually killing the tree/s. Stark bros is in the same zone that you are in 7A. Stark this past year had grown around 9000 Franklins. There has been no reports of a disease endemic to the nursery site that has killed off any Franklins. My thoughts are the roots system may be drying quickly on the "upper deck" which would also explain loss of other varieties you mentioned. Does this only happen to trees when moved to the upper deck? How are they potted? Usually, when a number of trees die under the same circumstances there is something wrong site specific that is causing the problem. I doubt it is Fire blight killing you trees. Could you provide more details as to the following questions:
1) Are the trees grown in black plastic pots.
2) How hot did it get before the trees died?
3) How often are they watered?
4) Do you have this problem with trees planted and growing on the property?
5) Could you be more specific about the new growth going "limp"?
6) Can you provide a picture/s?
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Nope. It is not an issue with moving them to the upper deck or the pots. They are in rootmaker RB2s. They never made it to the upper deck. They got the disease when on the lower deck in shade. It was still early spring. It is not a watering issue. I've been growing tees in containers for quite some time now. Apples are much less sensitive to watering than chestnuts and I started with chestnuts. I've got the watering thing down. I have not seen this disease at the farm. Whatever the disease is, I presume it is transferred from tree to tree when they are in close proximity. When I say "limp", I mean good vigorous growth standing upright suddenly begins to go limp and the weight of the leaf makes the stem bend. The leaves don't die for a long time. Everything just sags. It is only green growth, anything hardened shows no symptoms. I've tried several things including removing all affected stems and leaves as soon as it appears but it is too late. The course of the disease continues.
I've grown a lot of tree and had many trees die from poor practices as I was learning in the early years, but I never saw this. This is not a problem with the site or how the trees are maintained. It is not an across the board event. You can watch it progress and move from tree to tree. Trees that are more proximate to an infected tree are more likely to get it.
The best control I have found so far is to isolate a tree as soon as any symptoms show. The tree will eventually die, but other trees are less likely to contract it. The isolation only needs to be a few yards. When trees are in physical contact is when they are at the highest risk of the disease moving from tree to tree. I've been doing this long enough to know it is a disease, not improper care and feeding. It is not unique to Franklin. A wide variety of apples succumbed to it as well as some Seguins (chestnut family).
I did send some pictures to Stark, but it was pretty late in the disease process. I may have posted those on another Franklin thread, but it is to late in the process to see much. There are probably some threads I posted to with pictures of the symptoms on my grafted seedlings when it first hit last year that show the limp noodle effect. No one responded with a disease ID and there are some good apple guys on here. I'm just starting with apples the last few years, but I've been growing a lot of other trees this way for many years.
Thanks,
Jack
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I guess it is possible but I doubt it. I think it requires warm moist soils. I'm using RB2s with Promix which are very well drained. I have a few ACs in with this batch of apples. They are pretty sensitive to moist soils and they seem to be doing fine. I have not seen any pictures that show the limp condition that seems common to this. I also suspect that whatever it is that the infections are occurring when the trees are indoors. While some showed symptoms when they were outdoors, I don't see much tree to tree transfer of the disease outdoors.
Thanks,
Jack
I planted a bunch of franklins on b118 rootstock in 2017- I believe they were from Cummings, but im not 100% sure. The franklins grown on fair or good dirt did great and grew better than other varieties. I have high hopes for them. I planted one Franklin from that same order in a sandy area and it has really struggled with what I think is scab. It was completely defoliate D a couple weeks ago despite spraying the trees a couple times this spring. This happened the prior year as well. To be fair, every apple tree in that sandy plot had the same disease, but I don't think it would be accurate to describe franklins as disease free on all soil types.
Appleman
5 year old buck +
Honeycrisp is moderately susceptible to foliar scab especially during a wet spring. The apples are resistant to scab. I have a commercial orchard with about 225 honeycrisp which have had sufficient cover sprays with the fungicide sprays Captain and Sovran with great efficacy. My home Honeycrisp were not sprayed because of my duties at my store and at the orchard and look very much like what you showed in the photo. I would say you may have some scab on the leaves due to a wetter spring season.
Appleman
5 year old buck +
I am pretty confident scab is not the problem with the Franklin and may be more soil driven since you state every apple tree in the sandy plot had the same disease. Even though you may have irrigated during a hot summer in sandy soil it may have not be enough. The Franklin has been nursery tested and observed at many sites with no scab reported. I have around 35 Franklins growing in my orchard and tree plots for wildlife. The parent tree and those located at the wildlife plots are not sprayed and have never showed scab. Hopefully, you will be able to figure out the cause of the problem at the sandy plot.
I'm not sure exactly what is causing the mid summer loss of leaves on the trees here, but the symptoms most closely matched scab from what I could tell. The trees there look great, them like a switch in mid summer all the leaves fall off. Then a few weeks later some new leaves start to grow.
I think the sandy soil leaves the trees in generally poorer shape that makes them susceptible to diseases. I might try a liberty or freedom here to see how they do, but otherwise I'm done with fruit trees in this sandy section. The same trees growing 75 yards away in better soil do great, so it's not worth too much effort here.
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
Applemen... as Franklin Cider is new, what cross pollinators do you recommend to go with it?
I understand it is a mid season bloom. I would like to see cold hardy (zone 4) trees that would be suitable for deer (late hanging) could also be other cider apple trees & crab apples.
I considered Honeycrisp as Bill Mayo had lots of that when he discovered FC, but have learned that HC is very high maintenance and can be unreliable.
Appreciate any input you can provide.
