New to apples

[Yarg]

I'm in New York zone 5B.. I want to try a couple apples that are simple as I probably will not spray, so I think I narrowed it down to enterprise and liberty. My soils vary from sandy loam-lt. clay, and my dear numbers are high so I think I need to pick standard trees? And what about rootstock if I have a choice would love to hear some recommendations thank you

 

[Charman03]

Enterprise and liberty have probably been my easiest and best trees. I would plant them on 111 rootstock. I do however spray etc, and if I didn’t the Japanese beetles would have probably defoliated both trees as they both had a lot of beetle activity that I caught right away.

I’m not sure I’d have much success with apple trees if I didn’t spray.

 

[Diesel5610]

Liberty and Enterprise are a good choice and probably the two I would recommend for what you are describing. MM111 is the rootstock I would go with also, it does well in our area. Standard should work fine if you decide to go that way. I don't spray and our Liberty and Enterprise do pretty well. Make sure you cage the trees when you plant them or the deer will destroy them.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

^^^^^ And protect the trunks with aluminum window screen so the mice and voles don't chew the bark and girdle the tree. That's sure death for the tree. With the snow depth you get up there, I'd go with 2 ft. tall window screen so the mice can't walk on top of the snow and chew higher up the trunk.

Liberty and Enterprise are 2 excellent disease resistant apple varieties. You won't have to spray for disease, but you will - most likely - for bugs. There aren't any bug-proof apple trees. Standard rootstock will give you a full-sized tree - 25 to 35 ft. tall. MM-111 rootstock is a good choice as well - it is resistant to several diseases and wooly apple aphids. MM-111 should grow to about 16 to 22 ft. tall.

2 other very good disease resistant varieties are Galarina and Priscilla. I know of a N.Y. state guy on this forum that posted pix of his Galarina trees and they are doing really well for him, hanging into deer season and early winter. Good luck with your plantings.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

If you are just growing them for the deer, why not grow crabs? They are about the easiest to grow, and most are very disease resistant.

 

[Northbound]

I have a few granny Smith that I had bought at big lots for like 9 bucks. About 14 years ago when I first bought my home. Never sprayed or pruned and make good amounts of fruit. Certainly not pretty fruit but the deer are always checking for drops. They also drop over a long period. Some still hanging now.
However. Knowing what I know now I would have just stuck with crabs of various types. I was uneducated and broke at time so a 9 dollar tree seemed like a good idea

 

[yoderjac]

I don't think you need to pick standard sized trees because you have high deer numbers. With high deer number, you will need to cage your trees. The cages will protect semi-dwarf trees. This will cut a few years off the time to fruit compared to standard trees. As for root stock, I would talk to a local orchard. Your soil description is quite varied. Some semi-dwarf root stocks will do better in some soil types than others. I went to a local orchard and asked what kind of semi-dwarf rootstock they used and why. In my case, they said M111 because it is better adapted to our heavy clay soils than other semi-dwarf. If you really want a standard sized tree, you can plant your tree so the graft is below the ground. The tree will eventually produce its own roots.

I'm still fairly new to apples. I'm planting for deer and I want volume, so near-zero long-term maintenance is my objective. I started a few years ago starting apples from seed and planting them in the field. I then left a few lower branches from the seedling and grafted over the central leader to a known disease resistant variety. This takes a long time to produce fruit because the seedling rootstock will produce full sized trees. Time will tell how this works. If any of those lower branches are productive and meet my objectives, I can use them as scions for grafting later. I know that eventually that tree will produce good apples of known characteristics. I also bought a few m111 and grafted to them as a comparison.

As you can tell, I like to experiment with things. This year, I just ordered and received 50 m111 rootstock from a wholesaler. This is more than I can handle but because it was wholesale, even with the expedited shipping cost (because of the time of year), it wasn't much more expensive than buying 20 locally. At any rate, I plan to bench graft them as soon as my GRIN order arrives. Once the grafts callus, I plan to put them under lights in rootmakers and give them an early head start on spring. I'll plan them next fall. There is another thread where someone asked what folks are ordering from GRIN this year. My list is there. My primary selection criteria was disease resistance. Many are crabs.

Best of luck,

Jack

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Do you have bear in you area? If so, the standard trees will be better. A bear can still destroy a standard tree, but you hope the tree is bigger, and can handle the damage when it happens.

 

[Yarg]

Do you have bear in you area? If so, the standard trees will be better. A bear can still destroy a standard tree, but you hope the tree is bigger, and can handle the damage when it happens.

Yes, thanks

 

[yoderjac]

Do you have bear in you area? If so, the standard trees will be better. A bear can still destroy a standard tree, but you hope the tree is bigger, and can handle the damage when it happens.

Very good point! I've got bear that move through here. So far, I don't have significant apples on any of the trees and bear have not bothered them. However, last year we had a bumper crop of pears and a bear clawed up and broke branches climbing the pear trees. Fortunately they are 20' tall and could handle it. A semi-dwarf would have likely suffered damage. I had not thought about that, but it is a very good point!

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Yarg]

Hello my plan was to order a few liberty and enterprise on either b111 or m118 rootstock as I have a lot of beers in the area.
I checked Cummings nursery website.. they have a full size enterprise P18 but offer the liberty in dwarf and semi dwarf only.
They do however have about 12 other varieties in semi standard or full-size..
I wanted to post the link but I don't know how!!
I was hoping one of you "Apple experts" might be able to have a look at their site and share what you think would do well..I'm in zone 5B in the Catskills in New York state..thanks!

 

[Appleman]

I'm in New York zone 5B.. I want to try a couple apples that are simple as I probably will not spray, so I think I narrowed it down to enterprise and liberty. My soils vary from sandy loam-lt. clay, and my dear numbers are high so I think I need to pick standard trees? And what about rootstock if I have a choice would love to hear some recommendations thank you

For good tree growth you first have to consider site location and soil type. Avoid planting in clay soils. Sandy Loam works well but needs watering attention during dry periods.

I'm in New York zone 5B.. I want to try a couple apples that are simple as I probably will not spray, so I think I narrowed it down to enterprise and liberty. My soils vary from sandy loam-lt. clay, and my dear numbers are high so I think I need to pick standard trees? And what about rootstock if I have a choice would love to hear some recommendations thank you

Lets talk first about site location and soil types. For healthy growth plant in full sunlight. Avoid clay, shallow soils to bedrock, or wet locations. where possible augment your soil best with a fertile rich loamy soil. It is not necessary to add bone meal or peat moss when planting as it is important to maintain a soil PH of 6.2 to 6.7 for proper uptake of nutrients. Next, protect your new trees. Caging individual trees is only warranted when planting only a few trees spread across an area. It is more affordable plus easier to maintain your trees when contained within a fenced area. I use an American made 2x4 inch mesh, 72 inch high welded wire for both my commercial and apple tree plots for wildlife. In 25 years as a grower, I have only one event where a large buck got into the commercial orchard. Wire made in China is poorly made and the welds will come apart in due time. One of the most important practice is to protect your trees from voles and bores. As some have already mentioned, Aluminum window screening works the best. Do not use drainage tile or tree wraps around apple trees. This produces a favorable wet environment for bores and open to bark chewing voles over the winter months. It is a must that the height of the screening is higher then snow depth over the winter months. When choosing a rootstock I favor B118 over M111. Similar in size in the semi-dwarf category the B118 has been found to be more winter-hardy and produces earlier then the M111. Both rootstocks will grow to 75 to 80 percent the size of a standard in most locations. There are many cultural practice necessary to successful apple tree growing but for the sake of brevity will move onto to answering a few other concerns mentioned in this forum. You are located in the Catskills which is indeed a warmer zone then my plantings in Northwestern Vermont. I would recommended Enterprise, Liberty, Honeycrisp, Galarina, Franklin, and Snowsweet. There are many others but I think these will do well. On the subject of Bear damage. I have written articles for QDMA in Whitetail Magazine about "Apple Trees for Wildlife". One such article was published in 2017 which shows use of car tires with 3.5 inch decking screws inserted from within the tire to the out side. Kind of like a crown of thorns. The tires were cut through to allow us to wrap them around adult trees just above the lowest scaffolds (about browse line height). This will stop bears from climbing into the trees and damaging them. This past season my best friend and his brother harvested 3 bucks in their orchard because many of the apples were still hanging which otherwise would have been wiped out by hungry bears. After 3 years this protective barrier has been 100% effective. One last pointer for today. The varieties I mentioned are disease resistant to a point. Honeycrisp will develop a foliar scab. Snowsweet is prone to Powderly Mildew, Enterprise certainly one of the best but is a bit biannual. Liberty starts off pretty well with nice apples but quality can be disappointing over time if not properly cared for. It is also important to understand the importance of pruning, thinning, and chemical spraying if you want to achieve a goal of producing a sustainable mast crop for wildlife and to enhance your hunting opportunity. I hope you find this useful.

 

[H20fwler]

Another vote for looking at some crabapples, many are pretty DR and about as maintenance free as you want.
Check out;
http://www.northernwhitetailcrabs.com/whitetail-tree-selections

 

[Appleman]

Another vote for looking at some crabapples, many are pretty DR and about as maintenance free as you want.
Check out;
http://www.northernwhitetailcrabs.com/whitetail-tree-selections

A few questions:
- What is the raw component profile for your various selection of crabapples. (Sugar (brix), acidity/PH, and Polyphenols/tannins.
- What is the yield efficiency to the different growing size rootstocks offered for each variety?
- What is the climate zone for each of these varieties?
- Are all or some of your crabapples annual or biannual cropping?
- When you say DR can you describe which are resistant to Scab, Powdery mildew, cedar apple rust, and Fireblight.
- Under ideal growing conditions on a standard rootstock how many bushels eventually can be expected on your highest yielding trees?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

For any that don't know - Appleman is one of a couple bona fide experts that contributes on here. I've taken his advice on numerous aspects of tree care & he's helped my camp's trees get great starts. Some of the newer guys may not know who he is.

 

[weekender21]

Cool idea for bear protection. I may need to use that or something similar in the future. Now I just need to get them big enough to support the tire!

 

[H20fwler]

A few questions:
- What is the raw component profile for your various selection of crabapples. (Sugar (brix), acidity/PH, and Polyphenols/tannins.
- What is the yield efficiency to the different growing size rootstocks offered for each variety?
- What is the climate zone for each of these varieties?
- Are all or some of your crabapples annual or biannual cropping?
- When you say DR can you describe which are resistant to Scab, Powdery mildew, cedar apple rust, and Fireblight.
- Under ideal growing conditions on a standard rootstock how many bushels eventually can be expected on your highest yielding trees?

I plant apples and crabs for wildlife not for commercial use or for cider. The OP asked about trees that are DR and pretty much maintenance free.

So to answer your specific probing questions as it concerns crabs I have planted.

I have many different varieties of crabs planted from a few different nurseries I am assuming your questions are directed at NWC if so;
They grow great for me in NW Ohio, they grow very fast and put fruit on after just a few years. I don’t have to baby them at all, mine all appear to be standard or semi standard in tree size, deer and other wildlife eat them up, some hang really late into January. I don’t have any idea how many bushels per tree can be produced I’m not a commercial grower so that isn’t a big issue for me I just know they set a lot of fruit. As far as the diseases you listed I have seen none of any of them with my crabapple trees. I am so pleased with mine that I will be grafting a bunch this spring to M111 (I have loamy clay) so I can plant even more for wildlife and give some to friends that are doing the same as the OP.

If it is the NWC in particular that you are interested in I suggest calling them and asking them the details of their wildlife trees. For trees that can be planted screened&caged and walked away from I highly recommend them.

 

[Apple Junkie]

Hello my plan was to order a few liberty and enterprise on either b111 or m118 rootstock as I have a lot of beers in the area.
I checked Cummings nursery website.. they have a full size enterprise P18 but offer the liberty in dwarf and semi dwarf only.
They do however have about 12 other varieties in semi standard or full-size..
I wanted to post the link but I don't know how!!
I was hoping one of you "Apple experts" might be able to have a look at their site and share what you think would do well..I'm in zone 5B in the Catskills in New York state..thanks!

Cummins is a good nursery, offering high quality stock, and a wide selection of varieties on different rootstocks. Personally, I always purchase apples on either the M.111 or B.118 rootstocks – those are good choices. Although I have no experience yet, I am ordering some crabs the P.18 rootstock, so I would not rule them out.

To your question: Of the options available from Cummins right now, my first choices would be the Frostbite, Goldrush, and Novaspy. Also good options are the Campfield, Goldrush, and Honeycrisp. For a wildlife orchard, I’d avoid the Binet Rouge, Bulmer’s Norman, Jonagold, Kingston Black, Spitzenburg Esopus and Yarling Mill.

A couple suggestions… get your order in as soon as possible. As you can see, the Liberty and Enterprise you were looking are no longer listed (they might come back, ya never know). You can add to, and drop from, your order until it is due to ship. You can do all this on-line, which makes it easy. Also, if you check their web-site frequently, you will see additional varieties will be added all the time, and additional rootstocks too. Of course, they drop off just as quickly. One final suggestion, purchase the largest diameter tree that is offered if you want results as quick as possible.

Everyone here has a list of favorites. For me, I always keep an eye out for Florina, Liberty, Franklin, Wikson Crab, Ida Red, Enterprise, Galarina, Granny Smith, Arkansas Black, Honeycrisp, and Goldrush. I'm sure you will develope your own list of "keepers" over time. Keep us posted on you progress, good luck!!

 

[chickenlittle]

I'm happy with my trees on P18. They started fruiting much earlier than I expected, year 2 or 3 in the ground and are my biggest trees.

Looking at what Cummins has, I'd consider NovaSpy on B118 and Frostbite and Enterprise on P18.

 

[Telemark]

For a wildlife orchard, I’d avoid the Binet Rouge, Bulmer’s Norman, Jonagold, Kingston Black, Spitzenburg Esopus and Yarling Mill.

Why is that?