Anecdotal observations get in the way of application of more good wildlife research than anything I can think of.
New Quail section
- Thread starter Bill
- Start date
I am not sure I would call 55 years of trapping in four different states over 1000 coons and countless hours of trail cams watching coon carcasses anecdotal. However, I also understand everywhere is different. I own two properties, six air miles apart in the same river bottom - and they manage completely different.
What makes you think I was calling you out?
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Swamp, I think everyone has been very careful to not disrespect your personal experience. However, in any scientific world, that would be called anecdotal.
The problem with anecdotal evidence is, it can look very convincing, and often lead you down the totally wrong path. For you, there’s no doubt it works, and you should continue to do it. There doesn’t seem to be enough money, or interest, for major institutions to do large scale studies on any of this stuff. There is some of it out there, but it pails and comparison to pharmaceutical research, which makes billions of dollars.
I was just commenting that as much experience as I have with the coon/coyote deal, I realize everywhere is different. I see it all the time. Not calling you out at all - just meaning that what I see - through an awful lot of experience - does not mean that is what everyone sees. Happens a lot of this forum with largely northern members. What they experience may be the furthest from the truth where you and I live.
I apologize that my comment appeared to be calling you out. Was actually more agreeing - I do see great differences between personal experience.
They're a neat species for certain.
I did a telemetry study one fall for the MDC in NE MO. The quail we were able to trap and collar were always found in the annual weed areas of the given fields. They'd also loaf under some wild plum thickets.
One area that we trapped a few quail out of the covey was a GIANT native grass field with a 20 yard wide strip in it of some annual weeds (common ragweed/partridge pea)....the quail were ALWAYS in the annuals and never found to be in the native grasses when I put the antenna out.
When one of the quail died in between a cut corn and bean field (different area than the scenario above) that was collared ....I cut open the craw and the only seeds in it were common ragweed.
I did a telemetry study one fall for the MDC in NE MO. The quail we were able to trap and collar were always found in the annual weed areas of the given fields. They'd also loaf under some wild plum thickets.
One area that we trapped a few quail out of the covey was a GIANT native grass field with a 20 yard wide strip in it of some annual weeds (common ragweed/partridge pea)....the quail were ALWAYS in the annuals and never found to be in the native grasses when I put the antenna out.
When one of the quail died in between a cut corn and bean field (different area than the scenario above) that was collared ....I cut open the craw and the only seeds in it were common ragweed.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
I've actually planted ragweed before. Not something you tend to share unless you like people looking at you from the corners of their eyes. I truly believe it is an outstanding plant in many aspects.
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
That’s super interesting!
Back when we had birds, we hunted comercial timberlands - no ag at all - so when I read the demise of bobwhites was due to changing farming practices, I just laugh. There was no crop ag within 50 miles of where I hunted. We hunted clearcuts. You could find a few birds in clearcuts the first year after harvest - but the best was really the second and third year after broomsedge was filling in - but annuals still predominated.
T-Max
5 year old buck +
I’m gonna print this and hang it on my wall. Then I’ll tell everyone about this crazy f@#&er is Southern Kansas….
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Turkey Creek
5 year old buck +
I just ordered 20 lbs to add to my forb blend. LOL Call me crazy as well, pretty much every smaller bird hammers it and I have seen deer eating it regularly...... not really eating I mean acting more like they are a shop-vac and basically sucking the leaves off the plant. I got pissed at my BIL for mowing the the turn row at the end of the cornfield to get rid of the "weeds" I said that was brilliant now the deer are going to be eating your corn instead! There were a couple of does I had on trail camera video every night just hammering the ragweed once they popped out fawns. Super high protein level in ragweed. I asked my private lands biologist if there was any in the mix I was planting, he said no there is usually enough native seed in the ground already. I said not enough for my liking! He said then by all means buy some to add to the mix.I’m gonna print this and hang it on my wall. Then I’ll tell everyone about this crazy f@#&er is Southern Kansas….
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Where have you read that changes in farming practices are THE cause of quail decline? And that it is A cause of quail decline in timberland?
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Lol! I'll send ya a pic of myself to frame with it so that they can get a bigger laugh!I’m gonna print this and hang it on my wall. Then I’ll tell everyone about this crazy f@#&er is Southern Kansas….
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I have read it anecdotally stated in many places and many scholarly articles often mention it first. I understand the viewpoint if you live in ag country and the fields are all now plowed to the fence line and there is little waste grain and the fence rows have been cleared and the planting of fescue has become widespread - and while all those reasons contribute to loss of quail in those areas - those specific factors have nothing to do with loss of quail in commercial timberland areas. I still hear it quite often in the northern part of my state where there was little commercial timberland and folks hunted small farm areas.
The commercial timberlands in my area have suffered a huge decline in quail numbers also - but it isnt due to fescue or clearing fencerows. The commercial timber companies do not burn nearly as much as they used to, and the use of chemicals is probably more prevalent now than forty years ago when I was killing 200 birds a year.
MY personal opinion, in most areas I am familiar with, it now takes more than good habitat to support a healthy quail population. I think it takes excellent habitat - like those south GA and north Fl plantations - and in more acreage than most of us own.
Where I now live, it is cattle country and private timberland. We used to kill birds on these farms thirty years ago - including the land I now own. To be honest, I dont know what grass species made up most of the grass component in the pastures back then - but it is now fescue. I battle fescue on my small acreage of open ground - but the rest of my cattle ranching neighbors plant fescue. I dont know of anyone in my present local who has seen a quail in the past 15 years. We do still see quail with some regularity in the commercial timberland areas north of where I now live - but at nowhere near the numbers that used to be here when six or eight coveys used to be a fairly common afternoon on public ground.
I would like to read a couple decent studies on the issue - but have not found one. I read fairly often that there is conjecture that deer feeders artificially increase coon populations. That is a plausible thought, especially in areas where ag crops are not already available. The same could be said for crows and hogs. When I first started feeding corn, we had masses of coons come to our feed locations. Sometimes 15 or 18 in a single picture - so we definitely had a decent population prior to feeding. We have very few coons now - but that is probably largely a result of the feed locations concentrating coons (and hogs) and making it easier to shoot or trap them. I have feeders now that have not had a coon or hog in a picture in a month or more. The coons may have learned to avoid them - as have the hogs. I will have hog rooting in a food plot multiple nights in a row, 200 ft from a feeder - and never get a hog picture at that feeder. I know my coons become dog proof trap shy very quickly now. Most of the deer feeders in my area run about two months out of the year - Nov and Dec. It is widely recognized that a bumper acorn crop will result in elevated turkey nesting success or fawn recruitment - although I have not read specific research to that, either. I dont know how nutritious corn would be to a coon - it is not perceived to add much of value to deer - especially here in the south where they dont experience much in the way of a winter stress period. Would be interesting to see.
They provide citations. ;)
Can you provide a link? Thanks!
Nevermind - found it.
Wild Turkey Science: The habitat vs. predator stalemate | #64 on Apple Podcasts
Show Wild Turkey Science, Ep The habitat vs. predator stalemate | #64 - Feb 5, 2024
podcasts.apple.com
