Mfl closed
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Bluecollaroutdoors
5 year old buck +
The Dnr rep will write up a plan deviding your habitat into sections. They will pick a year you have to do a select cut based on where your forest is now. They will add details about tree you want to plant, thin or release. Alot of this is just suggestions. You need to get some fine details in writing though.
Personally we are in year 12 and have not heard from the DNR since. In 2020 they have logging planned. The gal who wrote or plan has been out of that job for years so whoever comes in 2020 will be there first visit to the property. There description of the property is so vague that we were never afraid of cutting lanes, firewood or putting in plots. Some people have told me we couldnt even cut a shooting lane but that seems like total BS to me.
Basically if you are gonna log you owe them a slice of the profits. Thats the number 1 concrete rule.
Personally we are in year 12 and have not heard from the DNR since. In 2020 they have logging planned. The gal who wrote or plan has been out of that job for years so whoever comes in 2020 will be there first visit to the property. There description of the property is so vague that we were never afraid of cutting lanes, firewood or putting in plots. Some people have told me we couldnt even cut a shooting lane but that seems like total BS to me.
Basically if you are gonna log you owe them a slice of the profits. Thats the number 1 concrete rule.
kl9
5 year old buck +
http://dnr.wi.gov/files/pdf/pubs/fr/fr0295.pdf
I haven't read through this, but a lot of the info should be in here
I haven't read through this, but a lot of the info should be in here
Buck Ridge
Yearling... With promise
Biggest negative is once you put it in, if you should ever want to build a house on it, you have to repay the back taxes at the current going rate. Say you enter a 25 year plan and at year 20, you decide to you want to build a house. If you have not specifically kept a portion out of the MFL plan, you would have to pay 20 times whatever the taxes will be in 20 years from now. Simple way around this is to identify one or more areas of a couple of acres to put on your MFL plan map that will not be in the MFL plan (does not need to be surveyed, but does need to be located and dimensioned on a map). If you don't ever build, you are not out much money. This also helps if you want to sell the land in the future.
Pros definitely outweigh the cons, if you think the plan through. Nowadays, you hire a cooperating forester, who is not a part of the DNR to write your plan. There are many out there, some work for loggers, others are independent. I went with an independent one and through learning how plans are written, was able to basically tell him how and when I wanted logging to occur and was within the bounds of the guidelines the DNR provides in their Silviculture Handbook.
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/ForestManagement/documents/24315/24315.pdf
It's 738 pages of pure fun, but this is what they use to determine how to manages stands and when and how they require logging to take place. It's to your advantage to learn it and come up with your own plan and goals prior to hiring a cooperating forester to write your plan.
Pros definitely outweigh the cons, if you think the plan through. Nowadays, you hire a cooperating forester, who is not a part of the DNR to write your plan. There are many out there, some work for loggers, others are independent. I went with an independent one and through learning how plans are written, was able to basically tell him how and when I wanted logging to occur and was within the bounds of the guidelines the DNR provides in their Silviculture Handbook.
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/ForestManagement/documents/24315/24315.pdf
It's 738 pages of pure fun, but this is what they use to determine how to manages stands and when and how they require logging to take place. It's to your advantage to learn it and come up with your own plan and goals prior to hiring a cooperating forester to write your plan.
Big Snow Man
5 year old buck +
Buck
Thats not how my forester and the DNR guy told me about putting on a house or a cabin on my property. They said I could take a acre out at any time with no penalty. The key was not to turn the acre into a golf course type landscaping. I could be way off but I ask the guy from the DNR when they checked on my last cut.
Thats not how my forester and the DNR guy told me about putting on a house or a cabin on my property. They said I could take a acre out at any time with no penalty. The key was not to turn the acre into a golf course type landscaping. I could be way off but I ask the guy from the DNR when they checked on my last cut.
I had 10 acres in the closed MFL program over 25 years ago. I put in a 14x52 foot mobile home made in 1970. It has a rotary drilled 6 inch well, electric service and an oversize septic system. Way back before everyone had mobile phones, it also had a land line. This is where I stay overnight when I am hunting or working on my land. These improvements did not sit well with the DNR. The DNR can change the stumpage rate and other aspects of the MFL contract anytime they please. You have to accept their changes to stay in the program.
I got tired of the hassle with the DNR. They are always right, you are always in the wrong. So I withdrew my land, paid the penalty and never looked back. I could not be happier.
If you are willing to follow their ever changing rules and stumpage rates, enroll your land. If you do not like the bureaucratic over reach of a government organization, stay out of the program.
I got tired of the hassle with the DNR. They are always right, you are always in the wrong. So I withdrew my land, paid the penalty and never looked back. I could not be happier.
If you are willing to follow their ever changing rules and stumpage rates, enroll your land. If you do not like the bureaucratic over reach of a government organization, stay out of the program.
Big Snow Man
5 year old buck +
JFK52
Sorry to hear that, I have not had any problems. My forester asked me what I wanted to do in my new contract and said I wanted a new 1 acres food plot and wanted to do some hinge cutting and install some trails. He said no problem and added it in and the DNR ok it. As for stumpage I don't have much wood that's good for anything but my small pine area in my entrance. So few loggers now you need to beg to get anything cut.
Sorry to hear that, I have not had any problems. My forester asked me what I wanted to do in my new contract and said I wanted a new 1 acres food plot and wanted to do some hinge cutting and install some trails. He said no problem and added it in and the DNR ok it. As for stumpage I don't have much wood that's good for anything but my small pine area in my entrance. So few loggers now you need to beg to get anything cut.
QDMWRKS
A good 3 year old buck
JFK52,
What do you mean by "stumpage rates". We have had no issues at all. The DNR foresters I have talked to have been very easy to work with. I followed the recent rule changes a bit and in my opinion they made it way to lenient rather than an overreach. People can get out with any significant penalty, etc.
What do you mean by "stumpage rates". We have had no issues at all. The DNR foresters I have talked to have been very easy to work with. I followed the recent rule changes a bit and in my opinion they made it way to lenient rather than an overreach. People can get out with any significant penalty, etc.
rocksnstumps
5 year old buck +
Stumpage rates are a severance tax based on the amount of cords and types of products harvested during a MFL contract term. I think the latest amount is applied to 5% of the total volume of wood cut.
Exception: A yield tax may not be required to be paid if the harvest occurred within the first five years of MFL enrollment or if the trees were cut for firewood for use in the landowner’s dwelling
The yield/severance tax is not based upon the amount of money the landowner received as revenue from the timber harvest (it is not a sales tax). The yield/severance tax is based upon rates established annually by the DNR. There is a table which groups areas of the state and average prices on wood products. The yield tax is based on this. Does not matter what the logger pays you, you have to use the table found at this site to figure your 5% rates
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/ForestLandowners/taxRates.html
Say you cut 1000 cord of Aspen/Popple in the Green Bay district. The tax is 0.77/cord so you owe the gobermint $770
You can do the reverse math to calculate what the average going rate per cord is in Green Bay area to the landowner.
0.77/.05 = $15.40 per cord of Aspen pulp
There is a different table used if the timber was sawlogs vs pulpwood
Exception: A yield tax may not be required to be paid if the harvest occurred within the first five years of MFL enrollment or if the trees were cut for firewood for use in the landowner’s dwelling
The yield/severance tax is not based upon the amount of money the landowner received as revenue from the timber harvest (it is not a sales tax). The yield/severance tax is based upon rates established annually by the DNR. There is a table which groups areas of the state and average prices on wood products. The yield tax is based on this. Does not matter what the logger pays you, you have to use the table found at this site to figure your 5% rates
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/ForestLandowners/taxRates.html
Say you cut 1000 cord of Aspen/Popple in the Green Bay district. The tax is 0.77/cord so you owe the gobermint $770
You can do the reverse math to calculate what the average going rate per cord is in Green Bay area to the landowner.
0.77/.05 = $15.40 per cord of Aspen pulp
There is a different table used if the timber was sawlogs vs pulpwood
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rocksnstumps
5 year old buck +
I have seen Norway Spruce in NRCS tables listed for WI areas for Windbreaks and Environmental Planting recommendations. My copy was back from mid 2000s so maybe something has changed. White spruce is a decent tradeoff in most areas. Actually the WS get less browsing than NS in high DPSM areas in my limited observations. Being browsed so heavy they grow slower for me. I don't try to plant them anymore as a result.
Thanks "rocksnstumps" you answered the question about stumpage rates better than I could have done. One thing to know about the MFL program is that it is constantly being modified by the DNR.
For me, it just came down to the fact that I do not want someone telling me what I can or can not do with my property. The money you get from the government as a tax break comes with strings attached. If you are okay with those rules and restrictions, you should enroll your land in the MFL program. Please remember that I stated my land was in the MFL program over 25+ years ago.
When I withdrew my land, the amount of money I paid to get out of the program was the difference in the subsidized MFL tax rate and the regular tax rate that would have been on my land. I do not remember if there were other monetary penalties for withdrawal or not.
I have no ax to grind against the MFL program. After trying it out for several years, it was just not for me.
For me, it just came down to the fact that I do not want someone telling me what I can or can not do with my property. The money you get from the government as a tax break comes with strings attached. If you are okay with those rules and restrictions, you should enroll your land in the MFL program. Please remember that I stated my land was in the MFL program over 25+ years ago.
When I withdrew my land, the amount of money I paid to get out of the program was the difference in the subsidized MFL tax rate and the regular tax rate that would have been on my land. I do not remember if there were other monetary penalties for withdrawal or not.
I have no ax to grind against the MFL program. After trying it out for several years, it was just not for me.
What rules and restrictions were you not in favor of?
My land was in the MFL program over 25+ years ago. I do not remember exactly but it had to do with the fact that I put a mobile home with electric, well, septic, land line phone and a storage building on my property. I recall that it had a lot to do with the attitude of the DNR towards those improvements.
The rules have changed over the years. I have not keep track of MFL changes as I have no land in the program.
If you take government money, there are always strings attached. If you can live with the conditions for your land being in the MFL program, enroll it. I could not and withdrew my land and paid the fee for the withdrawal.
I have a hard time remembering something from last month. Asking me to remember something from almost 30 years ago is a next to impossible task.
The rules have changed over the years. I have not keep track of MFL changes as I have no land in the program.
If you take government money, there are always strings attached. If you can live with the conditions for your land being in the MFL program, enroll it. I could not and withdrew my land and paid the fee for the withdrawal.
I have a hard time remembering something from last month. Asking me to remember something from almost 30 years ago is a next to impossible task.
Bluecollaroutdoors
5 year old buck +
The funny part to me is that as the rules change I cant remember every getting anything in the mail to say that the rules have changed. Our old documentation certainly doesn't have some of these new stipulations written in it that is for sure. But again we have no little to no contact with anyone regarding that program for the last 12 years. So far we like it. We might change our mind in 2020 when the select cut gods come a knocking.
The DNR NEVER sent me anything each time they changed the MFL program. I guess they believe you should keep up to speed with MFL rules if you are enrolled. Every rule change is favorable to the DNR. I felt like I entered into a contract with the DNR. The reality was that the DNR could constantly change their end of the contract and I was expected to abide by those changes. In the end, I just said screw it and took my land out of the program.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the DNR has a lot less field personnel today in 2017 than they had in 1987. They simply do not have the 'boots on the ground" to go around checking on MFL properties. One good source of information on all things related to woodlands in Wisconsin is the WWOA, the Wisconsin Woodland Owners Association. I am a life member.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the DNR has a lot less field personnel today in 2017 than they had in 1987. They simply do not have the 'boots on the ground" to go around checking on MFL properties. One good source of information on all things related to woodlands in Wisconsin is the WWOA, the Wisconsin Woodland Owners Association. I am a life member.
Big Snow Man
5 year old buck +
I am also a member of the WWOA which fights for the land owner. You keep referring to the DNR making changes how they want which is not true. The elected officials in Madison make the changes and the DNR implements what they make law. If your not happy with it vote in different legislative representatives.
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JT's Outdoors
Yearling... With promise
So far nearly none of the information provided has been correct. The DNR does not write the plans or determine when harvests are done. Your forester will write the management plan based on current and expected future conditions. This may include selective harvest (thinnings), clearcuts, seeding harvests, etc. Once the DNR forester approves the plan you will be held to the terms of the plan. It is now considered a contract that cannot be modified without your approval. This means if the legislature changes something in the MFL program that would impact your contract, you have to agree to it. There is no longer a yield fee (stumpage tax). The rates are re-evaluated every five years by the legislature, which adjusts the property taxes that you pay. Currently the rate is $10.68/acre. No buildings are allowed at all any more (deer stands are allowed and that has created some grey areas). If you have a building on your property you have to exclude that acreage from the plan. You are also allowed to withdraw acreage from the plan for building without penalty. If you decided to withdraw from the program entirely, you only have to pay a portion of the taxes that you were not charged while in the program-not all. Hire a forester that is willing to sit down and explain all of the ins and outs of the program and willing to take your goals into consideration. Most importantly LISTEN TO THE FORESTER and READ THE PLAN before you submit it. Every year I have landowners that I have written plans for previously that didn't understand what they were agreeing to.
Bluecollaroutdoors
5 year old buck +
I generalized the DNR and foresters as whoever wrote our plan. Basically saying that "the man" told me we could do this or that. Sorry if I misled anyone with that.
We got a building that came after the plan, a culvert (legal by some new rules I just read), piles of firewood, shooting lanes and Norway Spruce (whoops). It will be interesting when they visit again for sure. We also dont have crap for lumber right now so I dont see the selective logging being a big deal.
I would look to get it out of the program when the land is 100 percent mine so I like that you said you don't owe all of thee back taxes. I won't count that til I see it on paper as I am a synic that way.
We got a building that came after the plan, a culvert (legal by some new rules I just read), piles of firewood, shooting lanes and Norway Spruce (whoops). It will be interesting when they visit again for sure. We also dont have crap for lumber right now so I dont see the selective logging being a big deal.
I would look to get it out of the program when the land is 100 percent mine so I like that you said you don't owe all of thee back taxes. I won't count that til I see it on paper as I am a synic that way.
