No cam hunting

[Turkish]

I wonder just how many folks have actually killed a big buck when a text picture showed up and they head out to that location, sneak in there, and kill the deer? I have received over 100 text pictures in the last 24 hours - not an unusual amount - and the thought has never occurred to me to go kill one of the deer. Now I have killed hundreds of hogs and coons when I receive a text. Everyone I know runs cell cams and none - that I know of - have ever even tried to kill a deer when they received a picture. Now, that being said, I am one of the few that lives on my hunting grounds. Kind of difficult to jump in the truck and drive and hour to kill a deer and hope he is still there. I am sure there are a few who do it. Wouldnt bother me at all if they banned the instant text cams during deer season - as long as I could use them when firearm season wasnt open.

Cameras save deer. Eh. That cuts 2ways. Here is how it works… with amazing effectiveness in my part of the world. 200 acres with 4 feeders, each in range of a stand. Owner stays out of the area, except to fill feeders. Cell cams enable this. Hunter waits to get daytime pictures of a target buck at a given spot a couple days in a row, usually early season, hunts that spot the next day and scores. With low impact from limited and only strategic human entry, attractiveness of bait, it’s a great tactic.

Cameras may preserve top performers at 2-3 years of age, but the cameras also tip the scales in the hunters favor when the become trophies. I’ve honestly been surprised how many talk about their success doing exactly what k described.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Cameras save deer. Eh. That cuts 2ways. Here is how it works… with amazing effectiveness in my part of the world. 200 acres with 4 feeders, each in range of a stand. Owner stays out of the area, except to fill feeders. Cell cams enable this. Hunter waits to get daytime pictures of a target buck at a given spot a couple days in a row, usually early season, hunts that spot the next day and scores. With low impact from limited and only strategic human entry, attractiveness of bait, it’s a great tactic.

Cameras may preserve top performers at 2-3 years of age, but the cameras also tip the scales in the hunters favor when the become trophies. I’ve honestly been surprised how many talk about their success doing exactly what k described.

Absolutely. Literally just hung up with a guy who said he had a buck show up last night and if it starts daylighing hes headed after him. Which obviously means daylighting on his bait pile and because of his cell cam texting him real time info he would know when that bucks pattern has made him more visible. In that instance the buck would have died because of a cell cam.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I think if you consume hunting related materials like youtube videos, participate in forums, or use apps like OnX, your view of what the typical hunter is like shifts over time. There are people who own land around us that do not use trail cameras and hunt only the first 3-4 days of the firearm season. They own a few thousand acres of farmed bottom ground and some deep draws of timber. I can pretty much guarantee no human has seen some of the deer on their place and I wouldn't be surprised if there are deer that haven't had their picture taken yet.

Pretty rare, but they happen.

With that said, there was a 200" living a few years ago on the farm I just bought and I couldn't believe the amount of people that didn't know the older landowner or even any of the neighbors, but somehow knew about that buck. You can bet if I ever get a buck on camera with that kind of potential, I am not telling a soul.

Just curious in your neighbors example, is their land a big solid block? I haven’t seen many of those in the Midwest. Generally even the biggest properties have a lot variable depth and width. And given msu’s research on buck movement I would find it almost impossible “their” bucks are also using the neighbors who are very likely to be running cams.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Just curious in your neighbors example, is their land a big solid block? I haven’t seen many of those in the Midwest. Generally even the biggest properties have a lot variable depth and width. And given msu’s research on buck movement I would find it almost impossible “their” bucks are also using the neighbors who are very likely to be running cams.

There are a few 30-60 acre segments that are broken off by a remote gravel road. It also isn't a perfect square, which works against them.

The one thing with MSU's research on buck movement that is interesting, is that I don't remember it accounting for buck movement by age class. Several guys like Winke and Higgins have commented that as bucks get older, their range gets smaller. As you get a 200" 5-6 year old, they may only be on 150-200 acres the majority of the time. I think Winke said that his split G-2 buck lived almost entirely on 40 acres.

We are in decent communication with several neighbors between my new farm and my parents, which are about 1 mile apart the way a crow flies. We have never had bucks on camera for both farms, and our neighbors between us have bucks we have never seen in person or on camera. I'm not discounting their research, I just would think range is also going to depend on habitat type and quality.

 

[SwampCat]

Cameras save deer. Eh. That cuts 2ways. Here is how it works… with amazing effectiveness in my part of the world. 200 acres with 4 feeders, each in range of a stand. Owner stays out of the area, except to fill feeders. Cell cams enable this. Hunter waits to get daytime pictures of a target buck at a given spot a couple days in a row, usually early season, hunts that spot the next day and scores. With low impact from limited and only strategic human entry, attractiveness of bait, it’s a great tactic.

Cameras may preserve top performers at 2-3 years of age, but the cameras also tip the scales in the hunters favor when the become trophies. I’ve honestly been surprised how many talk about their success doing exactly what k described.

I agree - cell cams improve day to day knowledge. I am talking about using a cell cam to immediately go after a deer that is on it right now. I live in a area where hunters are almost defiant. I have had a couple almost brag about killing a deer with a thermal. Pretty sure they would admit to using a cell cam. I know lots of folks with cell cams - but they dont live on their property like me. Not many folks gonna get up to pee at 2 am and see a coon at a feeder and pull on their clothes and drive an hour to their lease or property to kill it. That is a ten minute hunt for me.

The old deer below is on my lease 25 miles away and a ranger ride. I aint driving down there to try to kill him.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

There are a few 30-60 acre segments that are broken off by a remote gravel road. It also isn't a perfect square, which works against them.

The one thing with MSU's research on buck movement that is interesting, is that I don't remember it accounting for buck movement by age class. Several guys like Winke and Higgins have commented that as bucks get older, their range gets smaller. As you get a 200" 5-6 year old, they may only be on 150-200 acres the majority of the time. I think Winke said that his split G-2 buck lived almost entirely on 40 acres.

We are in decent communication with several neighbors between my new farm and my parents, which are about 1 mile apart the way a crow flies. We have never had bucks on camera for both farms, and our neighbors between us have bucks we have never seen in person or on camera. I'm not discounting their research, I just would think range is also going to depend on habitat type and quality.

And that is a point that I always try to keep in the back of my head about older age class deer. I’ve definitely heard those guys and research suggest that as they get older they become more homebodies. I guess that bodes well to an individual property owner holding an older class year.

To the point about a 200 on camera I just hung up with another deer nut and posed that same question. He actually brought up an area I didn’t think about in Kansas and Oklahoma. I could potentially see one going without being caught on camera in those places. But I seriously doubt anywhere east to the Mississippi.

 

[SwampCat]

No 200’s on cam here - no such thing

 

[Brian662]

And that is a point that I always try to keep in the back of my head about older age class deer. I’ve definitely heard those guys and research suggest that as they get older they become more homebodies. I guess that bodes well to an individual property owner holding an older class year.

To the point about a 200 on camera I just hung up with another deer nut and posed that same question. He actually brought up an area I didn’t think about in Kansas and Oklahoma. I could potentially see one going without being caught on camera in those places. But I seriously doubt anywhere east to the Mississippi.

I'm glad you're coming around

Don't forget Nebraska or the public land @356 mentioned in Missouri where cameras are outlawed. Horicon Marsh in WI is ~30,000 acres, I bet there are some secluded swamp donkeys out there. Got to be many more places like this around the country, IMO.

 

[Turkey Creek]

There are a few 30-60 acre segments that are broken off by a remote gravel road. It also isn't a perfect square, which works against them.

The one thing with MSU's research on buck movement that is interesting, is that I don't remember it accounting for buck movement by age class. Several guys like Winke and Higgins have commented that as bucks get older, their range gets smaller. As you get a 200" 5-6 year old, they may only be on 150-200 acres the majority of the time. I think Winke said that his split G-2 buck lived almost entirely on 40 acres.

We are in decent communication with several neighbors between my new farm and my parents, which are about 1 mile apart the way a crow flies. We have never had bucks on camera for both farms, and our neighbors between us have bucks we have never seen in person or on camera. I'm not discounting their research, I just would think range is also going to depend on habitat type and quality.

Correct they did not mention age classes. They might be willing to give a break down of the general age of the bucks they followed, but I would guess that they do not have the information broken down by age class in terms of presenting data. I would guess they tried to get a representation of all age classes in their sample outside of buck fawns. Since the focus of the study was buck movement in general and not trophy buck movement. I would guess that home range size is going to vary on the geographic location. Their study area did encompass a nice variety of habitat from woodlands, food plots to crop fields. They said overall the quality of habitat was good in the study area.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I'm glad you're coming around

Don't forget Nebraska or the public land @356 mentioned in Missouri where cameras are outlawed. Horicon Marsh in WI is ~30,000 acres, I bet there are some secluded swamp donkeys out there. Got to be many more places like this around the country, IMO.

Still saying .01 percent chance anywhere east of Mississippi

 

[Brian662]

Still saying .01 percent chance anywhere east of Mississippi

To be fair, you're continually moving the goalposts of your position on this.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

To be fair, you're continually moving the goalposts of your position on this.

I don’t think so, I just clarified after having it brought to my attention that it’s highly unlikely but not impossible that one could exist in Kansas or Oklahoma. I seriously doubt Nebraska could. Majority of those deer, especially the big ones are river corridor deer. Those are all hunted and cameras everywhere i suspect. I still don’t think there is a single one east of the Mississippi.

Had this conversation earlier, how many 200” free range deer you think in the entire country? 100?

 

[Mortenson]

Way more than that. Probably thousands.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I don’t think so, I just clarified after having it brought to my attention that it’s highly unlikely but not impossible that one could exist in Kansas or Oklahoma. I seriously doubt Nebraska could. Majority of those deer, especially the big ones are river corridor deer. Those are all hunted and cameras everywhere i suspect. I still don’t think there is a single one east of the Mississippi.

Had this conversation earlier, how many 200” free range deer you think in the entire country? 100?

In good whitetail habitat in known good deer hunting states i wouldn't doubt it would average about 1 per county maybe slightly higher.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Way more than that. Probably thousands.

Not buying that anytime soon.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Way more than that. Probably thousands.

I initially thought a thousand and then I said how many are killed every year? Not many. And then I thought with modern efficiency I doubt more than 50% dont get killed in a season. So I figured no way 500 or more get killed in a year.

 

[Brian662]

I may not say thousands with an S, but I'd guess between 500-1,000 nationwide.

 

[Brian662]

I initially thought a thousand and then I said how many are killed every year? Not many. And then I thought with modern efficiency I doubt more than 50% dont get killed in a season. So I figured no way 500 or more get killed in a year.

Pretty sure Bowmar shot 2 or 3 in one season.

 

[Brian662]

I don’t think so, I just clarified after having it brought to my attention that it’s highly unlikely but not impossible that one could exist in Kansas or Oklahoma. I seriously doubt Nebraska could. Majority of those deer, especially the big ones are river corridor deer. Those are all hunted and cameras everywhere i suspect. I still don’t think there is a single one east of the Mississippi.

We've come along way considering at one point you said you didn't think there was a single buck in the country that wasn't on a camera.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

We've come along way considering at one point you said you didn't think there was a single buck in the country that wasn't on a camera.

I bet it’s 2-5% or all deer have never had their pic taken. There’s an estimated 30 million deer in the us. 5% is 1.5 mil. I find it hard to believe that the entire deer population of say all of Georgia and part of South Carolina have never had their pic taken.
That may have been hyperbole to say none but it’s super low percentage. Kinda sucks and I’m guilty of it too.