Managing for quail

[j-bird]

So far I have planted fragrant sumac, choke cherry, golden currant, American plum, service berry, sand plum. I am sure I am forgetting a couple.
Here is something to look at
http://www.kansasforests.org/conservation_trees/conservation_docs/Quail bundle 2015.pdf

Thanks for the link!

 

[Catscratch]

What's the difference in American plum and Sand plum? We have Sand plum native (I think anyway) as well as fragrant sumac. Also planted choke cherry this yr.

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[swat1018]

Everytime I plant sorghum, there are quail in/around it. I'm also edge feathering. I really need to kill the fescue sod in my CRP tree planting next.

 

[ksgobbler]

Sand plum likes the sandy soils as the name suggests. It also is shorter in height and width when mature. If you compare fruits the sand hill plum has a waxy look to it. I’ll try and get a picture when they ripen up.

 

[Native Hunter]

I manage for deer but have tremendous quail numbers. When checking trail cameras I have jumped three different coveys the same day. Two state biologist have been to my place for other reasons and are amazed at how many quail they hear whistling. They seem to use all the habitat features to some degree - NWSG fields, cedar fence rows, weedy ditches, stream corridors, tree and shrub planting, food plots, etc. I have them come up in all these places and still scares the ____________ out of me every time.

I take no credit for this other than just doing my deer management activities. Never have burned and have great forbs in my NWSGs after 8-9 years. Check my habitat thread in a few weeks when I update it - when partridge pea and other forbs start flowering.

 

[MickT]

Blackberries are jim dandy brush for quail. I think, though, it’s easy to get hung up on trying to manage all the parts (food, nesting, brood, and escape cover) instead of focusing on the successional stage. You need weedy areas with brushy cover every 40-60 yards. Get that first, the work out the fine details.

One part that can’t be overstated- connection and scale. Quail need big blocks (1500 ac+) of contiguous usable space.


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[SwampCat]

I manage for deer but have tremendous quail numbers. When checking trail cameras I have jumped three different coveys the same day. Two state biologist have been to my place for other reasons and are amazed at how many quail they hear whistling. They seem to use all the habitat features to some degree - NWSG fields, cedar fence rows, weedy ditches, stream corridors, tree and shrub planting, food plots, etc. I have them come up in all these places and still scares the ____________ out of me every time.

I take no credit for this other than just doing my deer management activities. Never have burned and have great forbs in my NWSGs after 8-9 years. Check my habitat thread in a few weeks when I update it - when partridge pea and other forbs start flowering.

What do you attribute the forbs in your nwsg without burning. I dont burn - I mow every 18 months. A lot of forbs the first year after mowing and then back to an almost pure stand of nwsg - which nothing on my place uses. I have actually considered killing it out.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Quail need big blocks (1500 ac+) of contiguous usable space.

Not at all challenging this assertion just looking to learn more.

I've always heard a quail could hatch, live their whole entire life, and die inside of 40 acres if they had all they needed. Even if I managed blocks of 80-100 acres at a time for a single covey, would think there should be more than what I have now. 3 coveys on 700+ acres just don't seem right to me...but maybe my expectations are too high.

Will I eventually bump into a covey or 2 come fall...yeah but in the meantime I ain't heard a single solitary whistle all summer. Just puzzling.

 

[Native Hunter]

What do you attribute the forbs in your nwsg without burning. I dont burn - I mow every 18 months. A lot of forbs the first year after mowing and then back to an almost pure stand of nwsg - which nothing on my place uses. I have actually considered killing it out.

I attribute it to the following things:

• I have some extremely hardy tall native forbs that were already there before the NWSGs, and some of the forbs added are improved cultivars that hardly resemble their wild counterparts. For instance, most wild partridge pea grows about knee high. It is easily shaded out by taller grasses and relegated to minor places. The cultivar of PP that I added grows over 6 feet high and is extremely aggressive. This year I will have so much of it that it is breathtaking when it flowers out. The Blackeyed Susans I planted also seem to be more robust than the natives, but as far as looks, I can't tell the difference. I have a native ticktrefoil that is literally unstoppable. The native tickseed sunflowers are almost as strong, and given any kind of ground disturbance they are prolific. These are a few but there are others, such as ragweed, goldenrod etc., that are extremely prolific in coming back every year - especially the goldenrod. Clumping NWSGs are not going to stop these forbs, and if they do - it would be easy to do some disking and bring them back easily. I have also killed vegetation by spraying gly just before an annual that I want germinates, and got a crazy good crop of that annual which lasts for several years. It's all about knowing your land and timing.
• I manage ditches as part of my habitat. I call it ditch farming. I can drive by in my truck once or twice a year and spray the unwanted plants, which helps bring on the wanted plants. When NWSGs or trees I don't want come up in those ditches I can easily kill them and have desirable plants. I have one ditch that is practically 90% jewelweed. I spend almost no time on it. I have another one that I have in shrubs - once again, almost no time to keep it like I want it.

As I said, watch my habitat thread in a few weeks when everything starts blooming. You will be looking at NWSG fields that have never been burned and had very little intervention from me. However, the intervention they did get was strategic and done with a purpose.

As far as the value of the NWSGs - they are extremely valuable to me. My deer use them as travel cover during hunting season. In the last 5 years we have killed 3 bucks 5 years old or older and passed numerous others that were 3, 4 or 5 years old. None of these were within 200 yards of woods and traveling through tall NWSGs in daylight. Of course, I have shooting lanes and everything strategically planned out so that we can see them at certain places. And I have cut holes in internal fences where I want them to go (used to be a cattle farm, so lots of internal fences).

If NWSGs are lemons - I have made a lot of lemonade.

 

[H20fwler]

I've been wanting to reestablish quail on our place also. The farm has fifteen acres of pasture planted to warm and cool season native grasses with two shallow ponds and shrub strips around the outside of pasture. I have been trying to plant everything native I can that has fruit/nuts/berries and am looking into maybe putting some type of millet out.
We have been training a young GSP and have been releasing a dozen or so bobwhites every couple of weeks to work the dog on..after training I think they pretty much end up as a hawks dinner.
I had the state quail biologist out this spring to walk the property, he really liked how things were progressing along with what has been planted so far the main thing he stressed was feathering the edges hard along the woods. My neighbors also have some good low winter cover.
In a few years when things are grown in more hopefully it will work out for transplanting some wild quail on the property.

 

[MickT]

A covey (10 birds on average) home range is about 40 acres. Home ranges overlap, but an outstanding density is 1 bird/ 2 acres. Wild birds have an annual mortality rate around 70%. That means 3 of the original 10 will be alive 1 year later, and only 1 of the 3 of 10, 2 years later. It takes landscape scale management to make the math work. A single 6” snow can result in 50%+ mortality. It’s hard to be a brown bird on white snow. But easy to be a Cooper’s hawk.

They have incredible reproductive rates, but hay cutters can effectively reduce recruitment to zero.

Pen raised birds have around 99% annual mortality.


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[ksgobbler]

The quail biologist told me on my 34 acres one covey would be great, and two fantastic. I’m at two and I’d like to work towards 3. Don’t know if it’s possible but we will see.
I’ve also had turkey poults raised on my place the last few years.
Native sunflowers.

 

[SwampCat]

I attribute it to the following things:

• I have some extremely hardy tall native forbs that were already there before the NWSGs, and some of the forbs added are improved cultivars that hardly resemble their wild counterparts. For instance, most wild partridge pea grows about knee high. It is easily shaded out by taller grasses and relegated to minor places. The cultivar of PP that I added grows over 6 feet high and is extremely aggressive. This year I will have so much of it that it is breathtaking when it flowers out. The Blackeyed Susans I planted also seem to be more robust than the natives, but as far as looks, I can't tell the difference. I have a native ticktrefoil that is literally unstoppable. The native tickseed sunflowers are almost as strong, and given any kind of ground disturbance they are prolific. These are a few but there are others, such as ragweed, goldenrod etc., that are extremely prolific in coming back every year - especially the goldenrod. Clumping NWSGs are not going to stop these forbs, and if they do - it would be easy to do some disking and bring them back easily. I have also killed vegetation by spraying gly just before an annual that I want germinates, and got a crazy good crop of that annual which lasts for several years. It's all about knowing your land and timing.
• I manage ditches as part of my habitat. I call it ditch farming. I can drive by in my truck once or twice a year and spray the unwanted plants, which helps bring on the wanted plants. When NWSGs or trees I don't want come up in those ditches I can easily kill them and have desirable plants. I have one ditch that is practically 90% jewelweed. I spend almost no time on it. I have another one that I have in shrubs - once again, almost no time to keep it like I want it.

As I said, watch my habitat thread in a few weeks when everything starts blooming. You will be looking at NWSG fields that have never been burned and had very little intervention from me. However, the intervention they did get was strategic and done with a purpose.

As far as the value of the NWSGs - they are extremely valuable to me. My deer use them as travel cover during hunting season. In the last 5 years we have killed 3 bucks 5 years old or older and passed numerous others that were 3, 4 or 5 years old. None of these were within 200 yards of woods and traveling through tall NWSGs in daylight. Of course, I have shooting lanes and everything strategically planned out so that we can see them at certain places. And I have cut holes in internal fences where I want them to go (used to be a cattle farm, so lots of internal fences).

If NWSGs are lemons - I have made a lot of lemonade.

I actually have much more wildlife use in johnson grass than nwsg. It is taller and provides better cover and it at least provides a seed the birds and cotton rats can eat. My deer walk through my nwsg, but they also walk through my neighbor’s grazed to the ground fescue pasture. I have Spent a lot of time and effort converting my pasture to nwsg. I really like the looks of it, but have been very disappointed in its use by wildlife. We dont have quail, turkeys, and almost no rabbits - except for those that live in the yard.

 

[Native Hunter]

I actually have much more wildlife use in johnson grass than nwsg. It is taller and provides better cover and it at least provides a seed the birds and cotton rats can eat. My deer walk through my nwsg, but they also walk through my neighbor’s grazed to the ground fescue pasture. I have Spent a lot of time and effort converting my pasture to nwsg. I really like the looks of it, but have been very disappointed in its use by wildlife. We dont have quail, turkeys, and almost no rabbits - except for those that live in the yard.

I didn't want to say anything, but you just confirmed why I suspected they didn't use your NWSGs - they aren't tall and thick enough. That seems to be the problem a lot of people have. If that is the case, then the deer aren't going to use the fields.

By fall, my fields are like a jungle - if a deer was standing 5 feet out in the field you couldn't see him.

Best of wishes.

 

[MickT]

I attribute it to the following things:

• I have some extremely hardy tall native forbs that were already there before the NWSGs, and some of the forbs added are improved cultivars that hardly resemble their wild counterparts. For instance, most wild partridge pea grows about knee high. It is easily shaded out by taller grasses and relegated to minor places. The cultivar of PP that I added grows over 6 feet high and is extremely aggressive. This year I will have so much of it that it is breathtaking when it flowers out. The Blackeyed Susans I planted also seem to be more robust than the natives, but as far as looks, I can't tell the difference. I have a native ticktrefoil that is literally unstoppable. The native tickseed sunflowers are almost as strong, and given any kind of ground disturbance they are prolific. These are a few but there are others, such as ragweed, goldenrod etc., that are extremely prolific in coming back every year - especially the goldenrod. Clumping NWSGs are not going to stop these forbs, and if they do - it would be easy to do some disking and bring them back easily. I have also killed vegetation by spraying gly just before an annual that I want germinates, and got a crazy good crop of that annual which lasts for several years. It's all about knowing your land and timing.
• I manage ditches as part of my habitat. I call it ditch farming. I can drive by in my truck once or twice a year and spray the unwanted plants, which helps bring on the wanted plants. When NWSGs or trees I don't want come up in those ditches I can easily kill them and have desirable plants. I have one ditch that is practically 90% jewelweed. I spend almost no time on it. I have another one that I have in shrubs - once again, almost no time to keep it like I want it.

As I said, watch my habitat thread in a few weeks when everything starts blooming. You will be looking at NWSG fields that have never been burned and had very little intervention from me. However, the intervention they did get was strategic and done with a purpose.

As far as the value of the NWSGs - they are extremely valuable to me. My deer use them as travel cover during hunting season. In the last 5 years we have killed 3 bucks 5 years old or older and passed numerous others that were 3, 4 or 5 years old. None of these were within 200 yards of woods and traveling through tall NWSGs in daylight. Of course, I have shooting lanes and everything strategically planned out so that we can see them at certain places. And I have cut holes in internal fences where I want them to go (used to be a cattle farm, so lots of internal fences).

If NWSGs are lemons - I have made a lot of lemonade.

I actually have much more wildlife use in johnson grass than nwsg. It is taller and provides better cover and it at least provides a seed the birds and cotton rats can eat. My deer walk through my nwsg, but they also walk through my neighbor’s grazed to the ground fescue pasture. I have Spent a lot of time and effort converting my pasture to nwsg. I really like the looks of it, but have been very disappointed in its use by wildlife. We dont have quail, turkeys, and almost no rabbits - except for those that live in the yard.

The grass itself is overrated. It’s simply a component of a native prairie, but the grass doesn’t make the prairie. A lot of us planted NWSG way too thick 10 years ago to the point that it choked out the forbs. Now I rarely plant any nwsg in the name of wildlife but instead manage by subtraction- killing the stuff I don’t want in the field.


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[Native Hunter]

The grass itself is overrated. It’s simply a component of a native prairie, but the grass doesn’t make the prairie. A lot of us planted NWSG way too thick 10 years ago to the point that it choked out the forbs. Now I rarely plant any nwsg in the name of wildlife but instead manage by subtraction- killing the stuff I don’t want in the field.


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Your grass may be overrated for you, but my grass isn't overrated for me. It is accomplishing exactly what I want it to do in the way I want it to happen. I couldn't be more thrilled with my NWSG fields. And I couldn't dream of the forbs being any better.

 

[MickT]

Let me qualify my views- I’m managing in Tennessee with a relatively long growing season and 50-60” of annual rainfall. It’s pretty easy for grasses to get out of hand. Just look at my yard.


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[SwampCat]

I didn't want to say anything, but you just confirmed why I suspected they didn't use your NWSGs - they aren't tall and thick enough. That seems to be the problem a lot of people have. If that is the case, then the deer aren't going to use the fields.

By fall, my fields are like a jungle - if a deer was standing 5 feet out in the field you couldn't see him.

Best of wishes.

You are correct - my grass is only waist high - but thick. When I bought my place - it was heavily grazed pasture - but had many native prairie wildflowers. After I kept spraying the fescue, I now have a good mix of little bluestem and broomsedge bluestem, along with scattered gamma grass and a very little switch - and almost no forbs the second year after I cut it. I will have to say, if my grass was a wooly as yours - it would be absolutely infested with hogs. I am jealous of your variety of flowering plants. I have 25 bee hives.

 

[Native Hunter]

You are correct - my grass is only waist high - but thick. When I bought my place - it was heavily grazed pasture - but had many native prairie wildflowers. After I kept spraying the fescue, I now have a good mix of little bluestem and broomsedge bluestem, along with scattered gamma grass and a very little switch - and almost no forbs the second year after I cut it. I will have to say, if my grass was a wooly as yours - it would be absolutely infested with hogs. I am jealous of your variety of flowering plants. I have 25 bee hives.

I went from KY 31 fescue pasture to what we have now. I am so happy that all of my seed were improved cultivars that grow tall, because my goal with the project was to create tall and thick cover for deer. Even the little bluestem that we drilled in gets nearly 6 feet tall when it bolts, and that is the shortest grass we have. I'm happy that the quail and other wildlife benefited too, but deer cover was the prime directive. If all the quail leave tomorrow, I won't care........

When you get exactly what you wanted, it is not "overrated" as some people would say. Who is anyone else to know what makes me happy...... And if I become unhappy with something, I have the ability, drive and knowledge to change it............

I don't have bee hives, but I do love all the flowering plants just because of the beauty of looking at them.

Best wishes SwampCat!

 

[ksgobbler]

Sericea is flowering almost a month early due to drought. Gonna have to hit it. Native grasses are already put their seed heads up. Only one of my quail plots came up. We need rain. On the bright side with the drought I am seeding millet on mudflats as my pond recedes. If we get some October rain it could be awesome. Still seeing lots of quail around.