Lets brain storm ways to make money off our acerage...

[phil@thesidehill]

i'm fairly certain S Mo is not maple sugar country. Every see how much a gallon of real grade A amber maple syrup fetches? its hard work, has a lot of expensive equipment required and is highly dependent on the weather year to year. I used to sugar on a fairly large personal scale...never sold it though. It was part of an educational program i worked for. I have a friend that has a 9 acre "you pick" blueberry patch and 70 acre sugar bush on his property. In addition to the you pick operation he also harvests and sells to a local business (fairly large national business) as they add blueberries to their product. he also contracted a commercial kitchen and packaging business to make and bottle his recipes for preserves and such made from his berries. He doesnt live off the income for either, but they have paid for them selves already an now that income is used improve the property further for deer primarily and other wildlife in general.

 

[Jim Timber]

Firewood is a secondary market in my plan, but one I need to be involved with due to the quality of my stand, the needs of my crop trees, and the amount of waste wood cutting lumber will generate. Tops don't make lumber - so the top needs to either rot or get sold as firewood. Firewood is still ok money, but it's not GOOD money. You need to be able to sweat to generate any product, and then you need to be able to reach your market, or understand how your market is going to reach you. It does take a considerable investment in gear too. My splitter was cheap - it was $900. My saws were not cheap - the cheapest one I have was about $400. Chains go dull 4x a day bucking wood - who's going to sharpen them? Hardware store wants $8 a chain = that's an expensive proposition, but my chain grinder was $400 too... Tractor is a must, because an ATV simply cannot move enough wood to be profitable. Slow and steady doesn't win with firewood, it means you'll never catch up to the Black.

Even at $250/cord, you've got a lot of expenses in there to recover. I've been trying to find a way to not deliver my firewood once I have it ready to be sold (next fall if all goes well), but in not delivering I have other obstacles, like finding buyers willing to haul it themselves and the liability issues of having folks throwing wood around on or near my property while I'm running an obvious business of it. Homeowner's insurance is not only not going to cover any claims, they're going to drop you on the spot if one's submitted.

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Firewood is a secondary market in my plan, but one I need to be involved with due to the quality of my stand, the needs of my crop trees, and the amount of waste wood cutting lumber will generate. Tops don't make lumber - so the top needs to either rot or get sold as firewood. Firewood is still ok money, but it's not GOOD money. You need to be able to sweat to generate any product, and then you need to be able to reach your market, or understand how your market is going to reach you. It does take a considerable investment in gear too. My splitter was cheap - it was $900. My saws were not cheap - the cheapest one I have was about $400. Chains go dull 4x a day bucking wood - who's going to sharpen them? Hardware store wants $8 a chain = that's an expensive proposition, but my chain grinder was $400 too... Tractor is a must, because an ATV simply cannot move enough wood to be profitable. Slow and steady doesn't win with firewood, it means you'll never catch up to the Black.

Even at $250/cord, you've got a lot of expenses in there to recover. I've been trying to find a way to not deliver my firewood once I have it ready to be sold (next fall if all goes well), but in not delivering I have other obstacles, like finding buyers willing to haul it themselves and the liability issues of having folks throwing wood around on or near my property while I'm running an obvious business of it. Homeowner's insurance is not only not going to cover any claims, they're going to drop you on the spot if one's submitted.

I know a guy here locally that sells a bunch of fire wood and he uses a 1 ton flat bed with a contraption that unloads pallet/wire baskets loaded with wood. The loading device looks to be hydrolic driven mini crane type jobber. It pivots so he can unload an load in a jiffy. I imagine he gets a deposit for the pallet/basket. I see this fella running balls to the walls all winter with fire wood. This may be something for you to look into Jim for fast efficient delivery

 

[MoBuckChaser]

My schedule is pretty flexible if need be. I just dont know if 10 acres is enough to alfalfa farm and be profitable after investments

If you get 100 small squares per acre at $6 each. That ain't chump change! Just sayin!!

 

[Jordan Selsor]

i'm fairly certain S Mo is not maple sugar country. Every see how much a gallon of real grade A amber maple syrup fetches? its hard work, has a lot of expensive equipment required and is highly dependent on the weather year to year. I used to sugar on a fairly large personal scale...never sold it though. It was part of an educational program i worked for. I have a friend that has a 9 acre "you pick" blueberry patch and 70 acre sugar bush on his property. In addition to the you pick operation he also harvests and sells to a local business (fairly large national business) as they add blueberries to their product. he also contracted a commercial kitchen and packaging business to make and bottle his recipes for preserves and such made from his berries. He doesnt live off the income for either, but they have paid for them selves already an now that income is used improve the property further for deer primarily and other wildlife in general.

I know I have lots of maples Phil. Never heard of anyone doing this around here. Something to research though! Their is a guy that has a huge blueberry patch not far from me that charges people a flat rate to pick. Seems like a pretty low maintenance operation.

 

[Jim Timber]

Yeah, I've had that idea before. :) Only a 1T truck can only hold a cord or so, and most folks up here are ordering 3-4 each. Making trips back and fourth burns up gas and profits.

I almost bought a 5T military truck last winter. Put a crane on it and it'll carry about 4 cords, gets 8mpg, can't exceed 55mph, takes 2 minutes to get to 55, and tires cost $600ea. Without an efficient means of getting the wood out and onto that truck, it was a non-starter. I had also thought I could sell some pulp wood to the mill using that thing to haul it. I would've broken even at best. The transfer yard for the pulp mill is 60 miles one-way.

I think a trailer that can drop a pallet directly on the ground (like a roll off of sorts) is the way to go - but there again, you need a bigger truck than I have to pull a trailer capable of handling enough wood to make it a one-shot delivery.

Make no mistake about it - there's guys who earn their living making fire wood. They all buy truck loads of logs off the loggers/tree services and have big expensive processors to make it easy to operate with a minimum of mouths to feed out of the proceeds. It can be done.

I just hope to make enough to pay for the tractor payments. It's a modest goal and I'm not punching a time clock. I'm also willing to accept the probability of not turning a profit for some time. Firewood is still a commodity up here. There's always going to be a market, but no one can tell you if it's $3 corn or $7 - your production costs are the same either way.

 

[Jim Timber]

If you get 100 small squares per acre at $6 each. That ain't chump change! Just sayin!!

A buddy's parents have a 64 acre farm in the SW metro (1 block from being out of Hennepin County). They lease 50 acres to a guy who hays it and use the money to pay the insane taxes. Their rent on that land is over 20K a year. The ground grows 4 crops a season, and he puts it all up and waits for the winter feed auctions when he gets top dollar. So if he can rent land for $500/acre and make money - there's money in alfalfa!

This summer was bad though; one of their pastures was under 10" of water all spring and too soft to cut. They didn't get anything off 20 acres. It's already started stinging. No crop insurance for them.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

I don't know of any that make a living at firewood. I know enough guys like my buddy and his 3 brothers I help, they do 150-200 cords a year when they are laid off from bridge work. After paying $100 a cord delivered in in bolts, There ain't much room left. When they do find wood to cut, they still have to pay $20-30 a cord stumpage and use there own equipment to get it out and back home. It is just a hard way to make a living if you are not set up for volume and that takes big money.

 

[MNAaron]

Hey MO, AARON,

How about row crops. How many years history before I can put the areas into CRP? Figure if its in beans I can likely get all my deer tags for free as well.

Batman - You need to have planted a row crop or some other kind of crop 4 of the years between 2002-2007 to be eligible. Not sure on the animal units issues. You do not need to have livestock to get a farm number however to get the tax break from the county you had better ask them what they require. In Ottertail county it takes a certain amount of income to get the tax break.

 

[Jim Timber]

The only one I know who makes a decent profit sells to fancy wood fired oven restaurants in the Chicago area and he buys wood from tree services who'd otherwise have to pay to dispose of it. So he pays them a pittance (probably covers the gas to go to his place instead of the dump from what I gather), and then does all the processing with a very well equipped yard and processor. All told, he's still paying IL taxes and probably doesn't have much left for himself in the end.

It's a hard business to get ahead in.

 

[MNAaron]

On our lands we have them enrolled in the following programs:
Conservation Reserve Program (General and Continuous CRP)
Wildlife Incentive Program (WHIP)
Environmental Quality Incentive Program (EQIP)
Hoping to be enrolled into the Prairie Pothole Initiative via EQIP this spring since it pays really good per acre.
I also log our woods whenever it is ready and market is good.
We are always looking for wetland restoration opportunities since I am a water guy (hydrologist) and brother is a wildlife/wetland biologist. However they are harder to come by in our hunting areas.

 

[foggy]

I don't know of any that make a living at firewood. I know enough guys like my buddy and his 3 brothers I help, they do 150-200 cords a year when they are laid off from bridge work. After paying $100 a cord delivered in in bolts, There ain't much room left. When they do find wood to cut, they still have to pay $20-30 a cord stumpage and use there own equipment to get it out and back home. It is just a hard way to make a living if you are not set up for volume and that takes big money.

There are a few large firewood processors in the area that seem to be constantly expanding and have nice facilities. One is located just nort of Little Falls on hwy 10.....and another is in Jenkins near my place. They both ship multiple semi loads of firewood daily.

Both operate production lines with electric splitters indoors. Serious operator ions.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Batman - You need to have planted a row crop or some other kind of crop 4 of the years between 2002-2007 to be eligible. Not sure on the animal units issues. You do not need to have livestock to get a farm number however to get the tax break from the county you had better ask them what they require. In Ottertail county it takes a certain amount of income to get the tax break.

You had to sign the crop up as well those years at the Farm service agency. Lots of guys got a rude awakening when they did not know that and they found out no money was coming in for there efforts!:eek:

 

[Riggsgwp->]

I started out by renting out my tillable land and when that became a pain I "farmed" it myself for the tax breaks but ultimately ended up putting over half of my property into crp and continuous crp. My property taxes are more than paid for so I'm happy I went the route I did. Mn Fish I may have to hit you up for some tips on fish ponds some time. I'm currently running an aerator for baitfish in my 1.5 acre pond and I'm hoping to stock fish this spring.

 

[sandbur]

Use some of that money from timber sales to build a pond in the ozarks. If it is cold water, grow rainbow trout to sell to the restaurant market. If warm water, maybe catfish?

 

[MoBuckChaser]

There are a few large firewood processors in the area that seem to be constantly expanding and have nice facilities. One is located just nort of Little Falls on hwy 10.....and another is in Jenkins near my place. They both ship multiple semi loads of firewood daily.

Both operate production lines with electric splitters indoors. Serious operator ions.

Could be, how do you get the contract they have away from them? Until you can do that, who do you sell to when propane or fuel oil heat gets cheaper than firewood?

 

[Turkey Creek]

Jordan you might see if there is already an established alfalfa grower in your area. Those guys here are often looking for more acres to cash rent. They supply everything, you just make a money off the land rent. 10 acres is going to be hard to make enough off of to justify all the equipment on your part. Plus you do get the value of having a "food plot" at no cost.

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Use some of that money from timber sales to build a pond in the ozarks. If it is cold water, grow rainbow trout to sell to the restaurant market. If warm water, maybe catfish?

Its funny you mention this. My dads place which is 5 miles from mine by road used to be a trout hatchery. It has a spring that pumps an unbelievable amount of water which feeds 4 ponds that are stair stepped down a valley with spill ways. His neighbor, a local guy says they couldn't get the trout to reproduce in the water for some reason. His place is truly awesome. I had the chance to buy into it but their is just to many chiefs for me. He owns it with several of my uncles. I like my uncles but we are just on totally different wave lengths when it comes to enjoying the outdoors.

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Jordan you might see if there is already an established alfalfa grower in your area. Those guys here are often looking for more acres to cash rent. They supply everything, you just make a money off the land rent. 10 acres is going to be hard to make enough off of to justify all the equipment on your part. Plus you do get the value of having a "food plot" at no cost.

That is pretty much where I am at with this Chris. I would not only have to buy the equipment but also build a barn for storage! It would be allot of years before I broke even an allot of sweat in the mean time

 

[wiscwhip]

Its funny you mention this. My dads place which is 5 miles from mine by road used to be a trout hatchery. It has a spring that pumps an unbelievable amount of water which feeds 4 ponds that are stair stepped down a valley with spill ways. His neighbor, a local guy says they couldn't get the trout to reproduce in the water for some reason. His place is truly awesome. I had the chance to buy into it but their is just to many chiefs for me. He owns it with several of my uncles. I like my uncles but we are just on totally different wave lengths when it comes to enjoying the outdoors.

They wouldn't necessarily need to reproduce in those ponds to make money. You could buy hatchlings or even a bit larger fingerlings and just use the ponds to rear them to marketable size. Might be an option, even if you put in a coldwater pond on your place?