Input on my plan?

[nrowles]

First I want you to know I understand that with only 15 acres I can't manage deer with habitat. It is mostly mismanaged plantation pine and this is all I have and I am doing this as a hobby on my ground. I would say I have a medium sized deer population. Much of the land around me is hunted but it is managed as far as I know. Much of the land around me also has food plots and etc. and there is some ag in the distance. To the west is what I would call big woods though. I have included 3 aerial photos below in Google Earth. The first gives a broad view. The second gives a good view of the trees on my property. And the third is where I have my plan detailed. To the north is some mature hardwoods and quite a bit of young/thick 15 year old hardwood growth. To the west is mature hardwoods and some pine patches. To the east is mostly plantation pine and ag. To the south is a mix of all.

Yellow Outline - Trees I am going to clear
Green along edges - Windrow of cleared trees
Yellow - Every other year rotation of corn and buckwheat/winter wheat or rye/clover
White - 25 Dwarf Chinkapin Oak
Purple - 25 Wild Plum
Orange - 25 Crabapple
Blue - 12 Chinese Chestnut
Black - Blackberries
Red - 4 Apple and 4 Pear (for household consumption in addition to deer)
No color - path for tractor/truck. Also by the house I have no plan yet. May just keep it mowed for now. I want this cleared out to have a nice view from the deck.
Black Lines - Path for tractor/truck
Open spot on west end - will be a small food plot

Is there anything wrong or bad about my plan? Keep in mind I don't have much to work with here. I figure once the trees/shrubs establish I will only have to invest a lot into the 3/4 acre of yellow/crop.

Is there anything I can do for winter food? I don't have anything to hinge cut. The every other year I do corn I will leave it stand until spring.

I think every year I would like to plant about 25 hardwoods randomly into my existing woods. Any opinions on this? I was going to cut some smaller stuff to accommodate the addition of a new tree. I may have to cut some bigger ones though to get sunlight to the ground ???

 

[bueller]

What is your definition of a mismanaged pine plantation? I don't think I'd plant a food plot in that small clearing to the west. I'd prefer the deer to bed on the west end, feed in the center, and you access for hunting from the east.

My property isn't much bigger than yours. IMO opinion diversity is huge and it looks/sounds as though that your place may be lacking that right now. Small meadow type openings with sedge and shrubs growing in the them are used heavily for bedding in my area. Especially with good cover nearby.

 

[Bill]

Not sure i like the food plot in the middle of the property. Think of how you will access stands. If there are deer between the house and the plot you will bump them going in. I'd pull the plot closer to the house with enough buffer or some type of screen to keep them from seeing activity in the yard but not enough for them to bed.

This would also allow you to slip in behind the windrow from the yard and have hidden access to much of the property.

No expert here, just throwing it out there.

 

[yoderjac]

How old are the pines?

 

[nrowles]

What I mean by mismanaged pine plantation is it was originally planted for pulpwood and does not appear to have been cared for thereafter. When you look at the second picture, the parts that are solid green has 3" trees so close together I honestly can't crawl through it. You can see where a small portion to the west is in rows. And the rest is more mature trees (up to 12-15") that seem to be random and not in any type of consistent pattern. From what I can tell from Google Earth dating, these are 15 years old. Nobody wants to take the timber, even for free.

I could be wrong but I honestly don't see deer bedding on my property, at least not consistently. I live on this property and I'm not going to stay off the west end in fear of spooking bedded deer. I could see that being the case if it were a property that I didn't live on or if it was designated for mostly hunting purposes only. As small of a property as I have, I felt I cannot provide the bedding AND the food, so I chose food. If I decide to not put a food plot in the small clearing to the west, should I just let it grow up with whatever comes or should I plant something specific that the deer may like to bed around?

I already have the clearing as close to the house as I can. It is 120 feet of trees. There is also 120 feet of trees between me and the neighbor to the south and I can see her through the trees. That section is more mature and not as thick, but still I can't get much closer to the house (unless I were to plant something very thick on that border). I do not want to clear any more trees to the south because of the neighbor. There is a trail on that property line and they ride their 4 wheeler back it often. That buffer needs to be there. I didn't want to clear any more to the north because those are the most mature trees I have and I really didn't want to get rid of them. I didn't want to clear any to the west because I was planning on having that small "kill plot" there. My thought is they would hit that first coming out of the big woods before they go into my clearing. My plan is to have a very small trail from my yard to the windrow for access. Those black lines are trails that I could pretty much access any other area without being too close to the clearing.

I understand that what I plan to do may not be the best thing for deer hunting, but I want to make a hobby out of this and a couple small food plots will not satisfy me. I dream of taking a ride out into my clearing and watching my creations grow. If I were to rethink this, would the best thing for deer hunting be to put a 1/2 acre food plot around where the blue shading is and let the rest be? I was also trying to think outside the box since every neighbor has food plots.

 

[bueller]

What's the natural regen like in your area. I'd be tempted to restore some of that pine back to native growth 1/2 - 1 acre at a time. With no market for them the bigger they get the harder they will be to deal with. Cut, pile, and burn.

Don't dismiss the idea of deer bedding on your place. If all you provide is food they will quickly learn your patterns and learn to feed when it's safe (at night). I'm not talking of "holding" deer but even just having a doe group bedding in your place will give you deer sightings all year long. Because you are living on and using the place, think of where deer will go to when spooked by you. If possible you want that to be on your place. I have a perimeter trail system that we use all year, atvs and all. The center of my acreage is my sanctuary. When we see and spook deer 90% of the time they head towards the center of my place where they know it's safe.

 

[yoderjac]

From a hunting stand point, I'm not sure I'd do anything. If you want a hobby, plant near the house. In the fall when acorns fall, the destination will be those food plots and you seem to have the densest cover nearby. The thing I would think about is how to place stands/blinds such that you can catch them going into the hardwoods and how to access them without bumping deer.

Thanks,

jack

 

[bueller]

I'd keep total plot acreage to an acre or less, probably closer to a 1/2. I'm an amateur at this stuff but I have worked on small properties for a number of years now. If your plot(s) are too big for your property or too close to your borders they will end up helping the neighbors more than they help you. Again a spooked/bumped deer needs buffer area / sanctuary available on your place.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Is there anything wrong with your plan? Bad Idea?

Hell no if it makes you happy to clear trees and plant something to watch it grow! Go for it!

If you are trying to implement your plan on your small parcel for deer hunting.....its a disaster! Sorry!

 

[Doohop65]

Is there anything wrong with your plan? Bad Idea?

Hell no if it makes you happy to clear trees and plant something to watch it grow! Go for it!

If you are trying to implement your plan on your small parcel for deer hunting.....its a disaster! Sorry!

MoBuckChaser, I am more of a lurker than a poster and I am sure I will get blasted for this but was that really helpful? Perhaps share some of your wisdom on where it has challenges and where it can improve.

I think you bring some great things but man you can spread snark with the best of them.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

I just tell truth hop dog! Direct and to the point!

He asked if his plan was good or bad. I answered for a guy wanting to watch things grow, nothing wrong with it. From a deer hunting stand point its a disaster.

If your asking me what I would do in his case, and the neighbors have all the plots in already, I would turn it into the most narly bedding you have ever seen and hunt my property lines. But since I have seen these guys with plans go through with their plan no matter what any of us say. No need to tell him anything, other than at least he has a plan, more than I can say for a bunch of guys!

 

[Jeff23]

What about three small plots in a triangle where three points of your "rectangle" are now (SW, SE and NE points)? I think it would give you more options on playing the wind, and you could create sidewalks between them to funnel movement. This would also leave more pockets for a few does to live, which should improve rut hunting. With 15 acres, it will be hard to provide everything, but having some deer call your property home will go a long way toward hunting bucks. Also, what is the water situation? A couple waterholes could be dynamite if that is a limiting factor at all.

 

[bwoods11]

Did I miss it... But what state are you in?

The plan would be different based on state/location
Ok I saw your profile--Penn

My theory on small parcels is to be different than your neighbors. I like having all the key things, thick cover, food and water.

Hour glass food plot with stands for each wind. It's hard to say, without seeing it.

 

[yoderjac]

MoBuckChaser, I am more of a lurker than a poster and I am sure I will get blasted for this but was that really helpful? Perhaps share some of your wisdom on where it has challenges and where it can improve.

I think you bring some great things but man you can spread snark with the best of them.

The best policy I've found is to take the good things Mo has to offer and let the snarking roll off your back. While his answer may be curt and lacking in tact, there is some truth in what he says.

First, on a property that small there is zero chance of having and measureable impact on the quality of the local herd. I'm sure you get that from your original post. The question becomes, what can you do to improve hunting. With a small parcel, you are not just scaling all the techniques used on large tracts. Instead, start with the home range of a deer. That varies with habitat, but 1,000 acres is not a bad average to use as a proxy. So, draw a circle on the map encompassing about 1,000 acres with your small property in the middle. Analyze that circle and figure out what is in it for deer. I cant do that without feet on the ground, and I'm making some assumptions, but here is what I see based on your first picture. The pines across the street may be bedding, depending on age, or thermal cover with little food if older. Your property itself screams bedding to me. There appear to be some ag fields to your north east and south east, but regardless of where deer are bedding, I don't see you being in a position to intercept them. The nearby food source you can exploit will be the acorns in the hardwoods to your west. There is a strip of pines to your south. Depending on the age of the pines and age of the hardwoods, that could be a connective travel corridor for bucks scent checking the hardwoods during daylight hours. Again, without feet on the ground, I can't be sure of any of this, but I'm trying to give you a sense of what to look for and analyze. I don't know how busy the road is, but even if the pines across the road are bedding, deer need to cross the road to access the hardwoods making your property attractive for bedding.

Your plan causes major disturbance and reduces the only thing your small place has going for it, cover. If you really want to improve your hunting, I would look at the big picture and figure out what role your land plays for deer and how they relate to it, especially during the season. I would look at ways to minimize disturbance away from the house. I'd look for way to place stands/blinds to catch deer as the move from your bedding to the hardwoods. I'd look for travel routes to the stands that don't spook deer. It may be putting a small road around the border of your place and hunting different sides depending on wind. It may also depend if you are archery hunting or rifle hunting.

While Mo may be harsh in how he says it and doesn't off an explanation of better alternatives to consider, I have to agree with him. I caveat that with I'm only working with the information you've provided in the thread, but your plant is just the opposite of what I would do. If you want to get your fingers dirty and have a hobby, I would do that near the house. If deer use it (and they will at least at night), you will have a chance to observe them from the house.

Good Luck,

Jack

 

[Native Hunter]

I agree with others who would not destroy cover. Deer will bed on that spot despite it being small, and the thicker you make it, the better. I would work toward making cover thicker and plant my fruit trees at the edge of the yard. Hunt the edges of the property, and whatever you do, don't make trails through it - they will lead every dog and coyote in the country right into it, and then your preferred bedding is gone.

Good luck........

 

[nrowles]

One area I'm clearing for sure is right northwest of the house. We are at a high elevation and it gives us a great view of the mountain and lower elevation. And I definitely wanted to put some fruit trees/shrubs in for household consumption so this may be the place to do it.

While I agree the way MOBUCKCHASER worded it is a bit harsh it did not offend me and it got the point across and that's what I needed. Although I would have liked to hear the opinion from him of why it is a disaster. I can use my property in different ways that will not destroy the hunting. I will have to understand the deer movement here better before I make any big moves.

I don't have water nearby so I was going to make a small man-made water hole on a downward slope.

Honestly I don't know what the natural regeneration is. The 2 acre finger I own and the 40 acres north of me were cleared 15 years ago without being replanted and it is very thick hardwood. I am not good with knowing plants and tree species.

If I were to try and improve bedding on my property, what would be some methods? Or simply let it be?

Jeff23.........I'm not sure I know what you mean by the 3 small plots. Are you saying 3 small plots at the spots mentioned with the plots themselves in the shape of a triangle?

Bwoods11.......I was trying to be different than the neighbors by doing something different than food plots. There is quite a bit of woods acreage to the west though so I suppose a couple more food plots may not hurt.

Yoderjac........I can't put boots on the ground other than my property because everything is no trespassing / posted. I am really just going off Google Earth to have an idea of what's out there. Below is another picture zoomed out a bit. That opening in my northern finger was where they did the original perc test. There are always tracks in dirt in that opening and going across the road. There is also a steady road crossing point where the pines start when headed south (Upper edge of my original 3rd picture). Really there is quite a bit of crossing where I have shaded green in the picture below, you can see the ground tore up good where they are coming off the road. I shot a doe last weekend coming into my property at the northwest (yellow shaded block) heading east. If it was heading for the evening feast it almost had to be going to the fields unless it was circling.

 

[nrowles]

Native hunter.......Do you have any suggestions on how to make it thicker/better for bedding? Also, I think we have a healthy group of coyotes here. We hear them at least once every couple weeks.

 

[Native Hunter]

Native hunter.......Do you have any suggestions on how to make it thicker/better for bedding? Also, I think we have a healthy group of coyotes here. We hear them at least once every couple weeks.

I haven't read all the info you provided close enough to fully understand how thick it is in there now. I know you said pines, and what usually happens with pines planted close is that they form a high canopy that keeps sunlight from hitting the ground, and the bottom pine limbs die too - leaving no cover at the ground. Once the canopy is removed and light starts coming in, you should get some native plants growing, and cover should improve.

I manage a tree planting, and I go in during the spring and do maintenance. I kill stuff that I don't want growing and promote the species I want. I have pines too, but they are spaced out - and briers, goldenrods, etc grow up between them forming good cover. Then I get out for the rest of the year and let the deer filter back in long before hunting season. It works for me. I do have persimmons, apples, pears, etc growing in this as well, so you can have your fruit and deer too if you work the plan right, but I would keep the fruit around the edges and stay out of the middle. Better yet, for a small property like you are talking about - just keep the fruit at the house and manage the land for bedding cover.

 

[yoderjac]

When a clear-cut is performed (or a select cut for that matter) and trees are not replanted (typically pine seedlings) and the forest is allowed to regenerate from the seed bank through the normal stages of forest succession, it is referred to as natural regeneration.

I'm using one form of natural regeneration which is a managed natural regeneration. When we clear-cut pines, we will have a crew plant new pine seedlings to restart the process and then apply herbicides to retard hardwoods until the pines can over take the area. However, we had a couple small stands of low quality hardwoods totaling about 20 acres that we decide to convert into bedding areas. We clear-cut them and let it sit for a year to allow the stumps to sucker. Next we brought in a crew and sprayed a herbicide cocktail to kill the stumps during the summer. In early fall, we conducted a controlled burn on the area. Every three years or so, we will conduct controlled burns of these areas. The idea is to delay the natural regeneration. We are not planting anything. This approach will favor herbaceous growth and keep them in thick early succession for longer than normal, but eventually, they will regenerate.

As for boots on the ground, the first step is getting to know your neighbors. Maybe you've done this already and run into a road block. Start with the tax records (many states have them on-line now) and find out who owns what surrounding your property. To start with, hunting only 15 acres, there is a pretty good chance that eventually you will shoot a deer that leaves your property. You will want to have permission to track that deer on the adjoining property. People often put up no trespassing signs because they want to control access, not because they don't want neighbors on their land. Once you have names and addresses from the tax records, search on-line for phone numbers and call or write them an old fashion letter and introduce yourself. Take the time to go meet them. Once folks get to know you face to face, they can be surprisingly accommodating especially outside the hunting season.

Google earth can tell you a lot, but it is best to go see as much as you can for yourself. What part of central PA are you in?

Thanks,

Jack

 

[MoBuckChaser]

You have 15 acres of cover nrowles, but not good cover, usually pines provide no food value under them. And since aprox 65% of a deer's diet consists of browse, you need to bring that to your property if you want deer to bed and feed there. Deer will stick in a bedding/browse area up to 24hrs a day at times. that is the area you want on your small property. To many guys go plot happy just so they can see deer the last 1/2 hour of shooting light. Huge mistake on small properties.

If you are new to your property, I would hunt it first for a year or two to see what or how the deer are using it, or not using it. See how they use your neighbors as well.

If you are still thinking of putting in all the items in your original plan, I would soil test the area first. Generally pines have had some of the worst soils under them. No reason to go tearing out all those trees if you have a limited chance of growing anything new in that area of value. It may take you 20 years to get your choice of new plants established, maybe more on poor soils, maybe never.