How many years in a row can I plant buck forage oats?

[MoBuckChaser]

The problem with Ray the Soil Guys approach, is most farmers can not afford to experiment with his principles for even one year. The cost of land and machinery, does not allow them to loose any money, do to a partial or full crop failure. The bankers will never go along with reduced yield which is what most farmers get when doing notil. Plus farmers have shown they can continue to rape the soil, and get incredible yields, why change and risk failure.

Same goes for most food plotters, they have limited time, and want clean plots that show success. Ray has some good stuff, but most of anyone reading this forum will never use any of it, let alone read about what Ray even talks about.

 

[yoderjac]

I would respectfully disagree. Those principles are being applied by Crimson and Camo and a large number of small food plotters. Food plotters are in a unique position to employ these techniques. First, they are planting for deer and not harvesting. Deer are browsers and most of their diet comes from non-food plot sources. So yield is not a factor in most cases. Plots are planted either for attraction or feeding. Smart feeding plots are planted to provide quality nutrition at times when native quality foods are scarce. As long as there is crop remaining at the end of the stress period it was planted to cover, it has been a success making yield secondary in most cases. Also, we don't harvest and only remove what deer eat and deer return many nutrients through droppings. So, with well managed soil and smart crop selection, food plotter can have much better nutrient cycling with lower input costs.

Clean plots are not a measure of success for food plotters. In many cases, the things farmers call weeds can be more nutritious deer food than the actual crop. Many are taken in by the food plot industry and think clean green monocultures indicate success for deer managers. Depending on location, challenges can be quite different.

There is a lot we as wildlife managers can learn from farming techniques, but there are significant differences that need to be considered. More and more experienced food plotters are moving toward more long-term sustainable approaches to managing deer.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[MoBuckChaser]

I would respectfully disagree. Those principles are being applied by Crimson and Camo and a large number of small food plotters. Food plotters are in a unique position to employ these techniques. First, they are planting for deer and not harvesting. Deer are browsers and most of their diet comes from non-food plot sources. So yield is not a factor in most cases. Plots are planted either for attraction or feeding. Smart feeding plots are planted to provide quality nutrition at times when native quality foods are scarce. As long as there is crop remaining at the end of the stress period it was planted to cover, it has been a success making yield secondary in most cases. Also, we don't harvest and only remove what deer eat and deer return many nutrients through droppings. So, with well managed soil and smart crop selection, food plotter can have much better nutrient cycling with lower input costs.

Clean plots are not a measure of success for food plotters. In many cases, the things farmers call weeds can be more nutritious deer food than the actual crop. Many are taken in by the food plot industry and think clean green monocultures indicate success for deer managers. Depending on location, challenges can be quite different.

There is a lot we as wildlife managers can learn from farming techniques, but there are significant differences that need to be considered. More and more experienced food plotters are moving toward more long-term sustainable approaches to managing deer.

Thanks,

Jack

Could care less if you disagree. Get just under 900 customers in that line of business and get back to me.

 

[scott44]

Question for those that say BFO is a waste of money, how long do the oats you like stay green? I mean I've tried winter oats from Deer creek and a couple other "winter" mixes and so far the only oat I've tried that says green into Dec are the BFO. In fact my BFO from this year still out and that's after a week of sub zero temps.

I'm not opposed to changing but would like some more intel first.

I would say a couple good hard frosts and my oats are starting to turn Brown in my fall mix but that's where the rye takes over.

 

[yoderjac]

Could care less if you disagree. Get just under 900 customers in that line of business and get back to me.

Merry Christmas to you Mo!

 

[yoderjac]

I would say a couple good hard frosts and my oats are starting to turn Brown in my fall mix but that's where the rye takes over.

The primary purpose of mixing oats with the WR is because the peak at different times. Many folks plant WW, but the mix of WR and oats cover the period of when WW peaks and these two together have a pretty broad peak.

Whether mixing is useful depends on your situation. Here, deer hit whatever cereal I plant about the same so I stick to WR for convenience and the soil related benefits of WR.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[MoBuckChaser]

BFO was developed by LSU. The Variety is LA604. Its is a cold hardy oat for that area, not anymore cold hardy for mn than a cold hardy oat developed in or around MN, WI, etc....

Most oats are cold hardy, some more so than others, many have been planted as early as late feb, yes late feb in mn, and they survive. BFO is no better than any other cold hardy variety. If someone wants to say BFO are the best for them, keep buying them, you have more money than the food plotters I run into.

 

[shawnv]

BFO was developed by LSU. The Variety is LA604. Its is a cold hardy oat for that area, not anymore cold hardy for mn than a cold hardy oat developed in or around MN, WI, etc....

Most oats are cold hardy, some more so than others, many have been planted as early as late feb, yes late feb in mn, and they survive. BFO is no better than any other cold hardy variety. If someone wants to say BFO are the best for them, keep buying them, you have more money than the food plotters I run into.

BFO was developed by LSU. The Variety is LA604. Its is a cold hardy oat for that area, not anymore cold hardy for mn than a cold hardy oat developed in or around MN, WI, etc....

Most oats are cold hardy, some more so than others, many have been planted as early as late feb, yes late feb in mn, and they survive. BFO is no better than any other cold hardy variety. If someone wants to say BFO are the best for them, keep buying them, you have more money than the food plotters I run into.

Kind of figure it was something like that. Do you have a specific variety(ies) I can get in WI? Below is the alternative I tried to BFO and was not impressed.

http://www.deercreekseed.com/assets/1/7/Select_Harvest_Brand_Oat_(Winter)_-_WIN_-_Tech_Sheet1.PDF

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Kind of figure it was something like that. Do you have a specific variety(ies) I can get in WI? Below is the alternative I tried to BFO and was not impressed.

http://www.deercreekseed.com/assets/1/7/Select_Harvest_Brand_Oat_(Winter)_-_WIN_-_Tech_Sheet1.PDF

I have sold Badger Oats for the past 5 years, with great success by farmers, Not food plotters. Next time try 2/3rds of your plot in BFO and the other 1/3 in Badger oats or one of the others of newer genetics. They are always developing newer and newer varieties. A new one out is Horsepower, a very good oat. Maybe try that. The old varieties like Jerry, Jim and the rest, are junk. Don't buy those. Ram forage is a good cold hardy oat with some success in WI. I don't know the availability or cost, because I do not sell it. Good Luck let us know how it works in your area.

Edit: Dane or Rockford Oats are a late season WI planted oats. But the difference between all oats in wi is only about a week to heading out. So it may not matter much.

 

[Fall's Legend]

Great advice here! Thanks

 

[pointer]

I am not that far from MO.I like MBC's approach to this stuff. Im thinking a road trip to MO and a couple cases of High Life would lead me to learning a whole bunch about growing deer and life.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

I am not that far from MO.I like MBC's approach to this stuff. Im thinking a road trip to MO and a couple cases of High Life would lead me to learning a whole bunch about growing deer and life.

I have beer!

 

[yoderjac]

Anyone recall the comparisons Paul Knox did between BFO and other less expensive oats?

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Anyone recall the comparisons Paul Knox did between BFO and other less expensive oats?

No and it wouldn't matter if he did do a comparison, as those would have been older genetics anyways......

 

[yoderjac]

As I recall they were in fact to the older varieties like Bob and Jerry.

 

[pointer]

I have beer!

Don't be surprised if I invite myself for a visit in the next year.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Don't be surprised if I invite myself for a visit in the next year.

Dare ya.....

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

My first year at my place in se mn was a wet one and the farmer renting my tillable acres didn't get his crop in because it was too wet and he got prevented planted crop insurance. So I got to plant lots of different kinds of food plot seed in July as a cover crop. My buddy gave me a free bag of buck forage oats and I also bought a couple bags of feed oats for $6 a bag at the feed mill to fill in some gaps. Both grew the same and looked great. No difference in deer preference either. The deer didn't eat either one! Soybeans were by far #1 and brassicas #2. I will say though that the whitetail institute brassica blend was preferred over the same generic seeds I bought from Welters. As far as a fall/winter attraction here, I had more deer tracks in my front yard than the oat plots. Each place is different though, but I certainly wouldn't buy any expensive oats for my plots.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I use oats for an early spring cover crop every year prior to planting beans or brassicas. I'm on year #4 so far and they still look great. I think the pest or disease issues might get disrupted though when I plant my summer crops though so someone might have different results if they went straight oats with nothing else.

 

[pointer]

Dare ya.....

I think I'm the one on the left...