How can a neighbor get so many bucks and me none?

[BJE80]

How is it possible a direct adjacent landowner has many bucks on camera but we have none. Year after year? Not even during the night.


He shows me the pictures he is getting which includes at least a half dozen 2.5 YO's and probably 2 3.5+ YO. I literally do not have a single picture of a antlered deer since May. How is this possible? You would think one of those bucks would venture over to my plots in the middle of the night once in awhile? Don't they disperse when bachour groups break up?

I understand this is hopefully the last year I will have to deal with this with the big changes with the logging this winter but man o' man this is getting kinda old. Rant over

 

[Steve Bartylla]

For whatever reason, that neighbor has something they want that you aren't offering. That may be as simple as a history of spending time on that ground. You are trying to break that cycle, which is never as easy as enhancing an existing tendency. You make the changes you're planning on making and things will almost certainly change, but it may take a few years to break that history.

 

[BJE80]

Interesting also, is the fact I found out he is logging as well this year as well as 400 acres in the area. I wonder if that will diminish my potential since the neighbors will be cutting and improving as well. Hard to catch a break sometimes. :(

 

[BJE80]

^^^with that much logging going on around you, the bright spot is that your area will be able to hold more deer. If you and your neighbors don't shoot them all, you should have a great situation for the next decade.

Well I agree. But I hope its not all freaking does like it is now. More deer is good. But I hope the wealth on the bucks get shared. The people that are logging are the guys that manage the herd well and don't shoot any young bucks. Which is great.

 

[BJE80]

At this second I feel like I am the farm that raises all the buck fawns so they can get big and go get shot by the neighbors when they are 3.5 YO. :(:mad::eek:o_O


Ok I'll stop. :)

 

[Steve Bartylla]

Interesting also, is the fact I found out he is logging as well this year as well as 400 acres in the area. I wonder if that will diminish my potential since the neighbors will be cutting and improving as well. Hard to catch a break sometimes. :(

Yes and no. Sure, it reduces the draw of your logging activities, but, as Stu points out, it should help draw and increase deer numbers. It's almost always easier to be consistently more successful in high deer number areas than in low deer number areas. I see them doing that as doing more good than harm for you in the long run. As I stated above, I see your biggest challenge as breaking their current tendencies. Doing so in your case, based on all I know is doable. It just will take a bit of time.

Any and every where there are a bunch of does, there are bucks as well...it takes both to build deer numbers.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

At this second I feel like I am the farm that raises all the buck fawns so they can get big and go get shot by the neighbors when they are 3.5 YO. :(:mad::eek:o_O


Ok I'll stop. :)

I believe that is a very accurate assessment of your current state. Just remember that you are in the process of trying to change that.

 

[BJE80]

What does the buck factory land next door have different from yours habitat wise? Thicker brush? south facing ridge? thermal bedding?

Creek Bottom. More Topography near the creek. Closer to big Ag. I don't think his land is any thicker than mine. They both need to be logged.


Not sure what else as I've only been on his land a few times.

 

[wiscwhip]

Those creek bottoms are magnets for older bucks, I can attest from experience. You may have a harder time keeping them on your land due to that situation. The nice part is, as much as we would all love to have Da' Turdy Pointer living on our place, all that really matters is that he visits your place during the rut, while you are in a tree. Does it truly matter that he lives across the fence if you get a crack at him anyway? Does the neighbor have any more oaks than you, or is he pretty much devoid of them like you are? As Steve said, you have a plan that will likely make your place very close to the best it can be, but it will take a few more years to realize that goal and you may need some tweaking in between now and then. This is why the preferred, edible, browse should be planted in place of what you will have for natural succession, your neighbors will have that after they log as well, those prime browse plantings will ensure you will have better. Same with the oak question, if they have none, you MUST get some on your place to ensure you have better food, even if it is short term, than the guys next door. Neighbors have apples? You should have some of those with varying drop times as well. The cover will be there, now provide year around food sources that no one else has and you will be on your way.

 

[dipper]

I only have only seen/picture of one yearling spike on my second property. This is only 27 acres of creek bottom, and it's basically all bedding and 2 acres of food plot.
There is 0-minimal pressure on bordering properties and I can hunt many of them.
I did some recon scouting and there appears to be a good buck using a historical buck bedding area 200 yards from my line. He has some good sized velvet shedding rubs. I know they aren't the spiker who made them. this buck is bedding 300 yards from my food plot and a pitch point camera never picked him up. He's probably just not coming to the food plots, along with other bucks.
Again, u guys in these cameras! U think they are actually a legit scouting tool. They are not!
I could go into my swamp and place the camera on my funneled trails. That will hurt me a ton and give me nothing more than I already know. Just like you, I know there are shooter bucks close. Let your neighbor tell you about all the bucks he's seeing. That means they are around...perfect! That's free info and he's stumbling around his place letting the deer know he's there. That's the best scenario for u.
If u like the entertainment of cameras, that's great.
Mentally those cameras are hurting your confidence, which can turn into big time minds games when the season gets real. I've been there, that's why I down sized on cams.

 

[dipper]

Don't listen to these guys over analyzing scenarios for u either. U know your area better than anybody.
Don't let it get into your head, because it is right now!

 

[BJE80]

I only have only seen/picture of one yearling spike on my second property. This is only 27 acres of creek bottom, and it's basically all bedding and 2 acres of food plot.
There is 0-minimal pressure on bordering properties and I can hunt many of them.
I did some recon scouting and there appears to be a good buck using a historical buck bedding area 200 yards from my line. He has some good sized velvet shedding rubs. I know they aren't the spiker who made them. this buck is bedding 300 yards from my food plot and a pitch point camera never picked him up. He's probably just not coming to the food plots, along with other bucks.
Again, u guys in these cameras! U think they are actually a legit scouting tool. They are not!
I could go into my swamp and place the camera on my funneled trails. That will hurt me a ton and give me nothing more than I already know. Just like you, I know there are shooter bucks close. Let your neighbor tell you about all the bucks he's seeing. That means they are around...perfect! That's free info and he's stumbling around his place letting the deer know he's there. That's the best scenario for u.
If u like the entertainment of cameras, that's great.
Mentally those cameras are hurting your confidence, which can turn into big time minds games when the season gets real. I've been there, that's why I down sized on cams.

I will 100% agree those cams are hurting my confidence. Absolutely 100% agree. If I shoot a doe this weekend I may not hunt or set foot in the woods until Halloween weekend. Maybe that is a mistake but is more likely a good idea.

I'm still fairly new to this private land thing. We bought this land in 2011 and I've hunted public my whole life before with no trail cams. See what I am saying?

 

[BJE80]

Those creek bottoms are magnets for older bucks, I can attest from experience. You may have a harder time keeping them on your land due to that situation. The nice part is, as much as we would all love to have Da' Turdy Pointer living on our place, all that really matters is that he visits your place during the rut, while you are in a tree. Does it truly matter that he lives across the fence if you get a crack at him anyway? Does the neighbor have any more oaks than you, or is he pretty much devoid of them like you are? As Steve said, you have a plan that will likely make your place very close to the best it can be, but it will take a few more years to realize that goal and you may need some tweaking in between now and then. This is why the preferred, edible, browse should be planted in place of what you will have for natural succession, your neighbors will have that after they log as well, those prime browse plantings will ensure you will have better. Same with the oak question, if they have none, you MUST get some on your place to ensure you have better food, even if it is short term, than the guys next door. Neighbors have apples? You should have some of those with varying drop times as well. The cover will be there, now provide year around food sources that no one else has and you will be on your way.

Wisc,

I probably won't ever hold bucks that he won't. He will always have the creek bottom and there is nothing I can change about that. Yes, the rut is a big deal to me for that reason. It is the only time I can actually hunt bucks (or so I think). My goal would be hopefully to at least start holding some of those younger 2.5 bucks in the future instead of them ALL being there and never tasting my nice food plots. Maybe that won't happen. But I think it will.

I will admit, I am amazed with my brassicas not one of those bucks came over for a taste in the middle of the night. Or at least I don't know they did.

 

[bigeight]

This time of year its easy to freak out about lack of buck sightings. (Our area) if you don't have green soybeans, you most likely wont have hardly any deer. They are gorging themselves on soybeans, and bedding close to them. Right when they start to yellow and our grain plots are up, we get a HUGE influx of new bucks almost in a weeks time, every year. We have great brows and cover to hold them once they get here, but those green bean leaves are tough to beat despite other habitat features.

How is your fall food source situation compared to your neighbor? Do you have some tender palatable things this time of year?

 

[BJE80]

Steve,

What about the theory that dominant does will run off bucks from good food sources? I'm in the same boat as BJE. One small buck photo. I may have 4 does groups on my land. 5 of the 6 years I've owned the land it has been this way until November. The one year there were bucks there was a pair of bucks that roamed and dominated the property. Very few does that year and November was a bust. Both bucks were killed and the does have dominated since. The bucks show up in November.

Good description. All hell breaks loose with the rut. In fact I don't even see the does much during the rut because I think they are trying to hide from the bucks. LOL

I suppose it is possible the old hags and their kids annoy the old bucks and don't want to deal with the drama.

 

[BJE80]

This time of year its easy to freak out about lack of buck sightings. (Our area) if you don't have green soybeans, you most likely wont have hardly any deer. They are gorging themselves on soybeans, and bedding close to them. Right when they start to yellow and our grain plots are up, we get a HUGE influx of new bucks almost in a weeks time, every year. We have great brows and cover to hold them once they get here, but those green bean leaves are tough to beat despite other habitat features.

How is your fall food source situation compared to your neighbor? Do you have some tender palatable things this time of year?

I am guessing I have a better tasting food source than his but much less of it. He has lots of area of plots. But I don't think he does brassicas. At least to my knowledge.

I bet he has some clover which of course is hot right now. But they can't eat clover every day.

 

[BJE80]

Dipper,

I also want to add I've never seen a buck while hunting until late in October. So it isn't just a trail cam thing.

 

[bowhunternw]

Do you have any thick heavy cover, I think you describe a fairly common situation. Those bucks have the habitat they want there and are usually grouped up in summer.

 

[bigeight]

I am guessing I have a better tasting food source than his but much less of it. He has lots of area of plots. But I don't think he does brassicas. At least to my knowledge.

I bet he has some clover which of course is hot right now. But they can't eat clover every day.

I was more talking about early fall/fall food. I always think of brassicas as more of a winter food. At least how the deer in our neighborhood use them. They don't touch them till December minimum

 

[Steve Bartylla]

Steve,

What about the theory that dominant does will run off bucks from good food sources? I'm in the same boat as BJE. One small buck photo. I may have 4 does groups on my land. 5 of the 6 years I've owned the land it has been this way until November. The one year there were bucks there was a pair of bucks that roamed and dominated the property. Very few does that year and November was a bust. Both bucks were killed and the does have dominated since. The bucks show up in November.

I know lots of others talk about "doe factories," but I just have never experienced it, and it'd take some serious thought to try to come up with an accurate number of properties I've managed that had way more does than neighboring grounds, but also had way more bucks, as well...It'd be the overwhelming majority of grounds I've managed over the years.

Still, enough people talk about it that I suspect there's something too it and that my management system is the key to way it isn't happening to me. No, I'm not pretending I have some super secret system. It's just offering the deer the best food, water, cover, comfort, feeling of safety and breeding opportunities I reasonably can, while encouraging movements in a way that manufactures low impact/high odds stands.

Do I believe the mature bucks would rather be left alone? Without a doubt I do, but I think most are willing to put up with the girls, as they aren't that big of a hassle, in exchange for a better combo of food, water, cover, comfort, feeling of safety and breeding opportunities than they can get in surrounding areas. Most seem to see it as a fair trade off.

Now, compare that to Big8's situation and that's a different animal. There's a difference between not having as much peace and quiet as you'd like, do to kids and girls running around, then having to fight over and over and over again to rule the area. The longer I ride this rodeo circuit the more convinced I become that most mature bucks don't really enjoy fighting at all and would much rather avoid these legit life threatening encounters.