Grant Woods advised me not to plant winter rye:/

[LuckyIL]

Is that grant posting or one of his workers?

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Is that grant posting or one of his workers?
No way to know for certain. Seems like typically when Adam posts he puts his name with it.

 

[kskid]

Thanks for the clarification, Jordan. I sure don't see anything there to indicate Grant Woods compromised his integrity for a product or a dollar. I enjoyed the many comments about WW, WR, and Oats. It's a great conversation.

I posted out of concern that valuable, diverse opinions will be withheld if simply sharing them will bring one's integrity into question. That would be a sad loss to the forum. :(

 

[Greta&Gus]

I would like to point out he also suggested to plant turnips, which is another good idea. I prefer rye in that situation, deer will dig down to it in the snow.

 

[THunter]

I use winter wheat as it is less likely to try to bolt in the fall if we get a warm spell, which we always do. A retired agronomist from UGA that I have known a LONG time told me that as well. Winter rye is good in a plot that you want to suppress weeds in in the spring though (ryegrass, which I HATE is even better though for that). A mix of wheat, oats, and rye is a sure-fire winner though for cool season feeding plots.

 

[dogghr]

I've used both WW and WR over the years as an attractant and nurse crop for new clover/alfalfa fields. Both perform quite well. I overseeded into a failed brassica plot this past November with WW, oats , and RC. Adjacent to it was a WC/alfalfa/ WR plot. On camera, the deer fed in the WR plot but continued on to the WW where they spent most their time, despite that plot being more exposed. They certainly love that WW. And it provides feed thru the winter. The difference with WW is that come spring, it has little if any attraction. Whereas the WR explodes late winter again and the deer are on it. WR probably provides a little more weed suppression but both are so thick, there is very little difference. I think WR also decomposes more readily when mowed or tilled for the next fall plot rotation. And WR provides free reseeding a little better that WW. WR is my go to seed in seed mixes, but WW is certainly close second.

 

[wiscwhip]

:rolleyes:Like I originally said, "follow the money $$$". The following is pasted directly from Dr. Woods' very own "Sponsors" page on his Growing deer TV website.

" Likewise the folks at Eagle Seed have selected a couple of wheat varieties that are the most productive for food plot forage. I planted and will be hunting over their Buck Monster forage wheat this fall!"

:rolleyes:Follow the money boys! Dr. Woods has to tell you to plant wheat, Eagle Seeds doesn't offer any "Buck Monster"o_O improved rye varieties in it's product line. It's not rocket surgery men! It's all about the Benjamin's. Just for future reference, I wasn't bashing the guy or singling him out in any way, it is rampant within the industry, and if a spade needs called a spade, then so be it, I'm calling it a spade.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

Just for future reference, I wasn't bashing the guy or singling him out in any way, it is rampant within the industry, and if a spade needs called a spade, then so be it, I'm calling it a spade.

Same here. I wasn't bashing the guy. From everything I've heard, he's both a good guy and good at what he does. Frankly, my comment wasn't even about him. It was just a general "buyer beware" statement. I have no doubt that I come off as a self righteous jack wagon when I write about stuff like this (I've actually done several articles on it and a chapter in a book, as well as posts like those above and I KNOW that I make myself look bad with every one of them). I have a ringside seat for this stuff. Heck, I'm often in the training rooms when strategies are laid out. It becomes soooooooooooooooooo freaking easy to spot, after being given the inside view.

As I said, that doesn't make these people "bad." One of my better industry friends has done a ton to help landowners and hunters, yet you'd swear Big N Beasty hung the moon and no other brassica blend could possibly be as good. For the majority, it's simply the cost of having a job in any form of the hunting niche.

I'll tell you straight up, I do it to a lesser extent myself. I have paid pro staff gigs with a bunch of companies. I just do it mainly with pics and a few mentions of what I use in articles. Now, everyone will tell you that they only have pro staff or show sponsored deals with the companies they believe in. So, I don't necessarily expect you to believe me when I say it, despite me then saying that I really, honestly mean it. What REALLY was the difference maker for me in that area is that I did buy something specifically because an "expert" I thought was legit was pimping it before I ever even thought about entering this niche. It was junk, I wasted my $ and I never believed a word he said after that. So, when I started I knew others would feel the same towards me, if they bought something because they even just saw me using it in a pic. I knew I told everyone that the guy pimping it was a fraud whenever he came up in conversation. So, it was easy to anticipate others doing the same to me...I had a great day job when I started. That made me be able to trade long term gain for short term cash. Many aren't in that position/can't make that trade. Others are in the TV or web TV side and you flat out can't take that approach there or you wouldn't be able to produce a show.

Here's just a couple things that jump out at me and scream marketing angle.
TV or web TV, never automatically believe a single word about anything that cost money. You HAVE to have paid sponsors to produce your show and there is waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much competition fighting for those sponsorship dollars to be able to pick and choose. It's 100% about who will pay, and most companies now have it written into their contracts that they must get XXX product shots and YY name mentions. That's why the shows are switching sponsors so often. Either they lost their old sponsor or someone offered them more $.

On forum posts, almost without fail, when someone posts "check out my site for info on..." or posts a portion of a blog, but redirects you to their site or facebook page for the rest, as it's "just too hard to post it here" they're trying to get you to their site to either bump their numbers to attract sponsors or trying to sell you the products/services offered on their site. I copy/paste things all the time. It takes more effort to do a partial paste and site link than just to paste the entire blog.

It's too complicated to explain in limited space here...but buy my ____ and you'll have all the answers. To this day, I can't think of one truly legit hunting tactic, habitat improvement or deer management technique that's too complicated to explain. If there is one, I don't know of it. Now scams can get complicated.

I could go on and on, but I'm sure I've made myself look self righteous enough already. As WI wrote, follow the $$$$$$$$. Then just ask if it passes the common sense test. If it doesn't, it's probably a sales pitch. For those trying to make $$$$, this is a business. They need to sell or they don't pay bills. Very, very few are in a position where they don't have to jump through hoops to push sponsors or their own products. It doesn't make them bad people. It's just business

P.S. In complete fairness, it's easy for me to be self righteous about this. When I started, not only did I have a good day job, but there wasn't close to the competition as there is today. TV have taken a huge slice of the $ pie making everyone else fight like dogs over whatever they can get. I was firmly established by the time that happened thanks to people like all of you. I don't think I could even make it no matter what I did if I had to start over today...On the outside chance I could, I'd have to shovel BS as fast or faster than anyone else to do it. The hunting world has changed since I started, and it hasn't been for the better

 

[wiscwhip]

Might be worth a shot MoBuck!!:D ;) Since Dr. Woods/Eagle Seeds now has the deer wheat market cornered and Dr. Kroll/Buck Forage has had the deer oat segment covered for a while now, it only stands to reason that us moron foodplotters should have someone push their improved selection varieties of MEGAMONSTERBUCKFOOD rye to us because we surely cannot figure it out for ourselves and there must be something out there that grows an inch taller and lasts a week longer than the garbage seed I get at the coop for 1/3rd the money.:rolleyes: The Elmer Fudd's of the world will keep the sales up for you, and I won't go out of my way to tell them any different.;) By the way, it would be much better if you had a PhD, then it could be Dr. MoBuck's MEGAMONSTERBUCKFOOD rye. And you could say, "Trust me, I'm a doctor!"

 

[Steve Bartylla]

By the way, it would be much better if you had a PhD, then it could be Dr. MoBuck's MEGAMONSTERBUCKFOOD rye. And you could say, "Trust me, I'm a doctor!"

hahahahahahaha....and it doesn't even matter what the PhD is in. Just make sure to include it in every signature. Somewhere around 1/2 that do that I'm aware of have PhDs in things that have absolutely nothing to do with wildlife.

Or, you could just do what a bunch of others I know do and make up your own title..."Trust me, I'm the Food Plot Doctor!"

 

[wiscwhip]

make up your own title..."Trust me, I'm the Food Plot Doctor!"

Too funny!!:D I love it! If one were to market estrous scent products, maybe you could be The Deer Love Doctor!

 

[Steve Bartylla]

There you go, WI...I've often wondered if I wouldn't be further ahead if I hadn't made up and given myself a title in the early years. the sad part is I'm only 1/2 kidding.

OK, I REALLY need to get back to work...thanks for the laughs, though.

 

[kabic]

Theses guys and their endorsements, pretty soon they will have articles in the June issue of "North American Whitetail" where the first 1/2 page is filled with phrases such as:

"My Reconyx scouting camera images showed ..."
"... found me sitting over the small Antler King Trophy Clover plot ..."
"... the Rage Extream-tipped Easton split his heart ..."
".. made the torque correction my IQ Sight instructed ..."

:D Just busting your chops Steve... and to be fair the rest of the article didn't have any product pimping.

 

[Tree Spud]

I prefer WR because you can broadcast it (no tilling or cultipacker required)and it will germinate down to 32 deg F. It will also green up in the winter when there is a warm spell.

As it seeds out in the late fall, there will be plenty that will germinate 1st thing in the spring along with the clover proving some weed control and forage.

It is also $9-10 per 50 lbs around us which makes it very economical.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

Theses guys and their endorsements, pretty soon they will have articles in the June issue of "North American Whitetail" where the first 1/2 page is filled with phrases such as:

"My Reconyx scouting camera images showed ..."
"... found me sitting over the small Antler King Trophy Clover plot ..."
"... the Rage Extream-tipped Easton split his heart ..."
".. made the torque correction my IQ Sight instructed ..."

:D Just busting your chops Steve... and to be fair the rest of the article didn't have any product pimping.

Throw in some photos wearing a Wildlife research Center hat, with a Mathews bow laying over a buck I'm holding and you nailed what I do to a T. For the most part, I try to get it out of the way in the intro story of the hunt (there are exceptions). I personally consider that "to a lesser extent" as I'm not telling anyone to go buy those things or that I'd never killed that buck without those products (though I do believe the torque adjustment the IQ instructs me to make and the extra damage of the Xtreme's cutting diameter probably has gotten me a couple I'd have otherwise not found or missed). I mainly just mention what I was using. I don't pretend to be without sin in all of this.

No worries about busting my chops on anything. I can tell from the wording, what you posted was 100% accurate (outside of there being no E to start Xtreme).

I hope I do a decent job of straddling a fine line. I won't pretend I don't struggle with it. It's like my loathing for how the industry has sucked so much fun out of hunting and replaced it with making so many believe that if they don't kill "Mr. Big" they had a failed season. Heck, nearly every article I ever do starts with a story of me killing a big deer and then proceeds to try to help others do the same. I know what a hypocrite I am

 

[kabic]

No worries about busting my chops on anything. I can tell from the wording, what you posted was 100% accurate (outside of there being no E to start Xtreme).

Your editor needs to do a better job, it is "Rage Extreme" in that article, probably spell check working against you....

 

[Steve Bartylla]

you're probably right, or it could have been a brain freeze on my part just as easy. On days like this when all I'm doing is writing, I get punch drunk after a while.

for the most part, editors make me look like I'm a far better writer than I really am. On occasion, they make me look like a liar or a fool. One buck I used as the intro for 2 articles this year, one editor inexplicably changed clover to alfalfa...So, in one article I killed the buck in an alfalfa field, in the other it was clover...Then at times I'll write mid 150s and see they changed it to 160. the best was when I wrote that corn was great for giving deer high carbs over winter and the editor changed it to protein...anyone reading that piece that knew anything immediately thought I was clueless. All in all though, they do a great job while being massively underpaid and overworked.

Anyway, this may sound odd, but thanks for pointing out what others were no doubt thinking. As I said, I know I come off as a self righteous jack wagon when I post stuff like that. You gave me an excuse to try to explain how I strive to pull off the balancing act. That said, I'm getting more and more pressure to include more product mentions with each passing year. The surprising part is that it's not from the companies I pro staff for. It's from the ad depts. of the magazines through the editors that are trying to use those mentions to get those companies to buy new or more ads with them. Every other article I do for one magazine in particular, the editor is demanding I do an entire side bar pimping products. We're all wh0res in this industry to one extent or another. It's really just how far each of us is willing to push the envelope and where we draw the line, but none of us are without sin.

 

[wiscwhip]

Steve, I have to commend you for being as honest as possible in explaining these situations. Thanks. Your stories may pimp a bit, but it seems you at least try to keep it to a minimum, quite unlike the "dark side pimps". Ask beuller, he apparently had enough of the "pimping" over there today.;) Give it to 'em, buddy!

 

[Steve Bartylla]

Thanks, Wi.

 

[THunter]

you're probably right, or it could have been a brain freeze on my part just as easy. On days like this when all I'm doing is writing, I get punch drunk after a while.

Doubt it was you Steve. I've noticed the editing of NAW has gotten worse over the past 3 years. Too much relying on spellchecker by the editorial staff is my bet. I need to call Gordon about that and have been meaning to.