Broadcast winter wheat or winter rye?

Peplin Creek

5 year old buck +
ok need some real world advice. Last year I broke down some trail camera data and found for my area, rye didn’t seem like it attracted deer until November when it was all that’s left. Which was fine but not exactly how I thought it would be. I figured it would be more attractive on early growth and it really was below average. I normally just broadcast it on the ground and it grows.

This year I’m adding annual clovers, peas, some form of brassica and then I plan to add a cereal grain in the month of September that I plan to just broadcast into the established plots. I’m wondering if winter wheat will grow just sitting on top of the soil much like rye does, do I need to seed a bit heavier? Seems like volunteer wheat is a thing in the farm fields that get harvested. So it seems like it would work. I’m thinking wheat over rye because it does seem like the deer have a slight preference to it over rye. So I’m just trying to maximize the attraction.

Any real world experiences from the forum members on doing just that broadcasting WW into established plots with success?
 
To answer your question, I have just tossed winter wheat, or winter rye on the top of the soil, and a good rain will make it grow. I dont think one germinates better then the other.

In my experience, oats is the best attractant for early fall, until a freeze, but you wont get as good germination from just tossing it on there.

Winter wheat would be my next choice for a cereal grain for an attractant, and germinates well by just tossing it on the plot.

Winter rye germinates probably the easiest, but I have never had an issue with winter wheat either. I dont really plant winter rye for an early attractant. I plant it mostly for a quick easy cover crop, and it is usually one of the first things in the spring to grow, so it gives deer an early food source in my cold climate. It will feed the deer some in fall, and winter as well. It will grow under a foot of snow. I also plant winter rye to prevent weeds the next spring, and early summer, and it gives my late summer crop something for me to plant into. While winter wheat does grow the next spring, it is usually sparce, and only gets about a foot tall, and doesnt stop the early cool season weeds from over taking the plot.
 
Thanks for taking the time to respond. That’s exactly what I was looking for.
 
Don't know where you live. I'm in west central IL. I stumbled on broadcasting or drilling winter rye in mid Oct. The deer eat it far better than planted in Sept. As well as winter wheat.
 
I broadcasted a mix of both on to my plots last year with a lot of success. For me they seem to prefer oats though. So I think I'm going to go with a mix of oats and rye this year
 
I broadcast a 50:50 mix of WR/WW last year onto an already growing clover/brassica field. I never really saw much of the WW come up, but the the WR came in really well. I didn't notice it being used alot (like you said) until the other stuff had been eaten down pretty well. (I will be doing a 50:50 mix of WR/Oats this year onto my new field.) There was alot of rain last fall too, so I think there shoulda been more WW that came up.IMG_5063[1].JPG
 
Yeah I’m north of you. Central Wisconsin area. If we get a warm fall here, Labor Day planting of cereal grains almost is too early yet. Seems like middle to late sept works better.
 
I'm a big believer in wheat over rye (sort of, I do plant both but wheat has most of the same soil building properties of rye with the addition of being a lot more attractive in my area).

In my area wheat and rye both grow very easily. Wheat tends to be shorter than rye. Plus wheat gets grazed lower than rye (gives the appearance that rye grows better). The myth that wheat needs to be fertilized and rye doesn't stems from the need for seed production in ag. For grazing they need the same fert.
 
While winter wheat does grow the next spring, it is usually sparce, and only gets about a foot tall, and doesnt stop the early cool season weeds from over taking the plot.
I came to that same conclusion this year. I lost control of one of my plots by switching it to winter wheat. It wasn't clean to begin with, but it never even sent up a seed head this spring, and got steamrolled by natives. It did fine where there was no prior seed bank though. I'm going back to rye for now to hold the line on what I've got.

**That being said, the shape that plot was in, I can't say for certain rye would have kept it under control either.
 
I'm going the best of both worlds and planting triticale.
 
I'm going the best of both worlds and planting triticale.
Can you just broadcast it with disking or covering? Triticale completely slipped my mind as an option.
 
ok need some real world advice. Last year I broke down some trail camera data and found for my area, rye didn’t seem like it attracted deer until November when it was all that’s left. Which was fine but not exactly how I thought it would be. I figured it would be more attractive on early growth and it really was below average. I normally just broadcast it on the ground and it grows.

This year I’m adding annual clovers, peas, some form of brassica and then I plan to add a cereal grain in the month of September that I plan to just broadcast into the established plots. I’m wondering if winter wheat will grow just sitting on top of the soil much like rye does, do I need to seed a bit heavier? Seems like volunteer wheat is a thing in the farm fields that get harvested. So it seems like it would work. I’m thinking wheat over rye because it does seem like the deer have a slight preference to it over rye. So I’m just trying to maximize the attraction.

Any real world experiences from the forum members on doing just that broadcasting WW into established plots with success?
The deer here, at least, don't show a strong preference for one cereal grain over another. There are times when one is slightly preferred over others but that changes over time. Never is is string. I use WR simply because it surface broadcasts better for me and had a bit better soil health characteristics.

The key is variety across a broader range of crops rather than worrying about cereal. My fall mix is WR/CC/PTT/GHR. I keep the brassica component low. It has been working well for me here, but you will need to find the combination that works in your area. Keep in mind that deer attraction is relative and during hunting season, it is overwhelmed by security (except during the rut). Deer will often chose a "less attractive" food source over a higher quality one if they perceive it as more secure to access.

For me, the GHR becomes attractive as soon as it emerges. Even though we have plenty of high quality native foods in early fall, deer will still hit the radish tops. The tend to use WR lightly through out the hunting season. They hit it when it first emerges because they like the young tender shoots. They will also hit the crimson in the mix. As the season moves on, they next hit the radish tubers. It is not until after a frost or two that they start hitting the PTT tops. They generally don't hit the PTT bulbs till February here. In a mast crop failure year, they will hit everything harder and earlier. The WR get hit throughout the winter when we get warm spells as it grows at colder temps than most. It continues to be attractive until it gets rank in the spring, and by then, the Crimson (that acts as a reseeding annual in my area) comes on strong and is used well.

Sometimes we take variety too far. We begin to worry about which cereal grain is more attractive or even which specific variety of an individual cereal grain is more attractive.

Regardless of which cereal grain you chose, you will get better germination if you cultipack it. If you get the timing right and the other plants in your mix are young enough, cultipacking won't hurt them.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Last edited:
Winter rye also helps build OM in the soil, its root system digs deep, and can grow in dry times. Plus if you let it mature, you will have 4-5 foot tall wr to roll on top of your next seeds. I dont really plant wr as an attractant, it is more of a soil builder, weed preventer, an early spring food source, and somewhat a winter food source. Deer will eat it in the fall, but there are too many piles of corn to compete with around me.
 
Yoderjac, it’s interesting to hear how different your deer are from a behavior stand point than mine when it comes to brassicas. PPT especially. I couldn’t even get them established last year because they ate all my tops in august and sept before we even got a frost. I’d swear to anyone the “needing a frost” is a myth. Normally I have a shooter or two in them the end of sept beginning of October chowing down on them again well before a frost. I’m trying them again this year but if they destroy the plot again I’m going to switch it to something else.

I do think your right though on security playing a roll, especially for daylight movement in plots. I have no doubt rye would work for my needs. But wheat does seem to be a bit more attractive, just wondering if it top seeds ok otherwise I’ll just go rye again. I’ve designed these plots to be a bit different than what I normally do this year. I’m planting some now and hopefully finish in the beginning of august with peas, frosty berseem, fixation clover and then either Winfred or DER. My hope is that the peas act as the initial draw. (It’s what my trail camera data has shown). Then hopefully after a couple weeks of that the clover should be getting to point that it’s browsable, once it starts getting cool I think the brassicas should help a bit more. And then I’ll top seed wheat/rye with hopes that it’s a decent November draw with whatever will be left of the mix above.

No idea how it’s going to turn out. But it was apparent to me I was leaving a big window of space where my plots weren’t as attractive with my peas, oats and rye last year. Looking at trail cam pics and making graphs. It showed a pretty bad u curve. Seemed like the peas were the candy and Ate every last one. Didn’t come back for the grains until after. I’m sure other factors could be at play but food in the plot is something I can change to see if it makes a difference or not.

I also had a plot that was straight rye do to really bad planting conditions. It’s all I could do to save the plot and have something in it. That really showed extremely low usage including the fresh tender growth until the beginning of November and then it got better. Again based on my camera data.
 
"Needing a frost" is a myth. I think it is just time coincidental for many of us. I get much lower germination rates with WW if I just broadcast compared to WR. Cultipacking helps both.

I would say that if deer are hitting PTT hard early in the year, it is saying something about the availability of other native foods during that period. I know that here, when we have a poor acorn crop, deer hit our PTT hard and early along with everything we plant.

Did you use an exclusion cage on your WR plot? Peas are a candy crop.

Camera data can be deceiving. You need to be real careful to understand it correctly. It is easy to introduce bias into the data. I had an issue with age bias until I converted to black flash. It was an age/sex based camera avoidance issue. Exclusion cages can be quiet enlightening when things seem odd.

Thanks,

Jack
 
I'm in wisconsin, I do a mix of 70% WR and 30% WW, deer absolutely love it! On a farm I ask permission on, the farmer planted 80 acres of winter triticale. There were times I had over 100 deer in there, in was fun to hunt that farm. It was crazy the pull that it had on deer.
 
I'm in wisconsin, I do a mix of 70% WR and 30% WW, deer absolutely love it! On a farm I ask permission on, the farmer planted 80 acres of winter triticale. There were times I had over 100 deer in there, in was fun to hunt that farm. It was crazy the pull that it had on deer.
I've heard one other story like that with triticale. I've got a couple bushels of triticale to try this fall. Kinda looking forward to it.
 
I am in Upper Michigan - Zone 4a. I have not tilled my soil in 7 years now so everything I plant is either drilled or broadcast. Of course, all the cereal grains germinate well when drilled but in my experience Rye shines well above wheat when broadcasted and I wouldn't waste my time or money broadcasting oats again as I get very dismal results - very low germination with broadcasted oats. In fact, it is almost a waste of time and money to plant fall oats as they winter kill so early here. I did include some oats in my summer cover crop but there won't be any in my fall cover crop.

The comments on triticale interest me... a lot. May have to try to find some and give it a try.
 
Another issue I have with oats is bear. They seem to love the oats much more then wheat or winter rye. I know the deer like oats more as well, but anything I can do to not attract bear, is my goal here.
 
I am in Upper Michigan - Zone 4a. I have not tilled my soil in 7 years now so everything I plant is either drilled or broadcast. Of course, all the cereal grains germinate well when drilled but in my experience Rye shines well above wheat when broadcasted and I wouldn't waste my time or money broadcasting oats again as I get very dismal results - very low germination with broadcasted oats. In fact, it is almost a waste of time and money to plant fall oats as they winter kill so early here. I did include some oats in my summer cover crop but there won't be any in my fall cover crop.

The comments on triticale interest me... a lot. May have to try to find some and give it a try.

Elk mound seeds have it, most feed mills do, mine does at least. It's a cross between wheat and rye. I'll be honest, last year was the first time the farmer planted it on this permission farm and I was very impressed. It did very well for his cows to. If any guys out there that ask permission to hunt, might be worth talking to the farmer as he can use it for feed. Might be just enough to pull deer on that farm.
 
Top