Easiest, most effective way to kill spruce trees

[bornagain62511]

Hi, what is the easiest and most effective way to kill unwanted spruce trees? We planted many 1000's of white spruce on our farm between 15 and 30 years ago and we want to thin some out to allow sunlight in so browse/brush will grow. In the past we've simply girdled a single ring around the trunks with a chain saw. It usually take about a year for the tree to die and lose it's needles, sometimes longer. What would be a more effective yet little time consuming way to kill them? I thought about spraying or brushing Tordon RTU into the girdle or even just a couple of saw cuts into the trunk if it would kill without a complete girdle??? Or some other type of herbicide? someone mentioned Progeny and blue bark oil mixed? I've searched for blue bark oil on the internet but haven't found anything about it or any place to buy it? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[mikmaze]

not sure how effective on killing, but how bout a tracked skid steer with a bucket, knock 8 into the center 1or double row into a pile, repeat. should make some thick arse cover. open up areas, and make a helluva bedding area, where are you located? give me a grand and Ill run the machine you rent and fuel all week.

 

[bornagain62511]

I'm in southern WI. I would actually like to kill the trees standing in place and not create brush piles with the tree trunks and branches because that takes up space that the deer could use for travel, bedding, and browsing. by killing them and leaving them stand in place, there isn't an area closed off to deer traffic and brush/saplings/etc grows up vertically with the canopy open to the sunlight and deer can move freely underneath the standing spruce. Years ago I cut some spruce completely off and the whole tree falls over and creates a "roadblock" in the whole area where the tree is taking up space with the trunk and branches taking years to rot down. the spruce branches are really stiff and simply cutting them off with a chain saw would create a "roadblock" of unusable area as they lie in place and take years to rot down.

 

[buckdeer1]

I am sure you can use garlon or something for hack and squirt I imagine the blue is just coloring so you can see where you sprayed.Check forestrysuppliers.com

 

[Rit]

With many of 1000’s why not get some of it logged?

 

[bornagain62511]

I thought about getting it log but they're probably not really big enough to be worth much to anybody to harvest them and Spruce aren't worth much as it is even if they were very large trees. We're actually having our farm logged within the next year and all the hardwoods have been marked for cutting selectively but they don't even consider logging the spruce because they're either not worth it or not big enough. But they're plenty big enough so that they've completely closed off all the sunlight from getting to the ground in a lot of areas which creates very poor deer habitat with no understory growth

 

[MickT]

Hack and squirt or maybe thin by burning after the logging is complete?


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[John-W-WI]

Transplant them to my farm. Problem solved!

 

[Natty Bumppo]

Sounds like you have a similar situation that I face. My land was logged about 30 years ago and spruce dominated. I now have roughly 30 year old spruce stands that are "deer deserts." I have found that they will spend time in them in the hot summer months. Beyond that...fairly useless. For the past 10 years or so I have been going in with my chainsaw and dropping most of the spruce. I buck it up and use it in my masonry heater in my home or in my evaporator. I create brush piles here and there. But most of it I burn in piles. Last winter's work will be ready for burning this spring. I've always got a patch of spruce that I've dropped the year before to burn each spring. In some stands I leave the 30 yo spruce and simply open up the canopy a bit to create little 15x15' areas where I encourage new spruce growth. These young spruce clumps growing in the understory of the larger spruce trees seems to be a magic combination for year round bedding, but also especially important for deer yards and overwintering habitat.

I know it's a lot of labor, so not the easiest. But as far as most effective? Yes...very effective. And also purposeful.

 

[bornagain62511]

thanks everyone. Yes, our pure spruce stands are "deer deserts" as you said. We will leave some scattered spruce on the south facing sides where they can provide good winter cover, and maybe a few small scattered pockets of solid spruce on south sides, but only small solid stands and mostly single scattered spruce with plenty of space between them for other vegetation to grow. most of the spruce need to be killed to provide better deer habitat.

would hack and spray with garlon be most effective in April/May/June compared to now going into winter? Would I use pure RTU Garlon, not diluted or mixed with anything? also, would I need to completely girdle them, or just a couple notches in the trunk with a saw and spray the Garlon in it?

 

[bornagain62511]

would hack and spray with garlon be most effective if I did that in April/May/June as compared to doing that now in December at the start of winter, or would it still be effective if I did it during the winter? Would I use pure RTU Garlon, not diluted or mixed with anything? also, would I need to completely girdle them, or just a couple notches in the trunk with a saw and spray the Garlon in it?

 

[MickT]

Use Garlon 3a 1:1 with water. Don’t do it when the sap is moving so quit about the end of January and start back in June. Leave ~3” between hacks.


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[bornagain62511]

Use Garlon 3a 1:1 with water. Don’t do it when the sap is moving so quit about the end of January and start back in June. Leave ~3” between hacks.
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Thank you! So what do you mean about "leave 3" between hacks" ? Do you mean about every 3" around the circumference of the trunk make a hack?

 

[MickT]

Leave a gap between the hacks. You should be able to kill conifers with a double girdle below the lowest limb as well but the saw gets heavy.


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[bornagain62511]

Use Garlon 3a 1:1 with water. Don’t do it when the sap is moving so quit about the end of January and start back in June. Leave ~3” between hacks.

Would the addition of diesel make the garlon 3a more effective? if I mixed like 3 parts garlon 3a to 1 part diesel or something? I've heard of that being done with other herbicides for some reason to make it work better. Also, are you saying that sap normally starts running in the trees in Wisconsin winters during January? Do you know why it starts running so soon when the trees don't start to bud out until April when the weather warms up?

 

[MickT]

Use Garlon 3a 1:1 with water. Don’t do it when the sap is moving so quit about the end of January and start back in June. Leave ~3” between hacks.

Would the addition of diesel make the garlon 3a more effective? if I mixed like 3 parts garlon 3a to 1 part diesel or something? I've heard of that being done with other herbicides for some reason to make it work better. Also, are you saying that sap normally starts running in the trees in Wisconsin winters during January? Do you know why it starts running so soon when the trees don't start to bud out until April when the weather warms up?

I’m in TN so dates may vary. Our sap starts moving mid-late February in hardwoods so I stop at the end of January just to be sure. Don’t add diesel. It will just make a messy emulsion.


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[Natty Bumppo]

Sap flow occurs when conditions are good for it. If you have a warm up in mid to late January, the sap will flow. And as any sugar maker knows, you will begin to get fairly consistent sap flow from mid-Feb. on depending on where you are. Now, I've never tapped a spruce tree, but I am assuming that sap flow is similar in spruce as it is to any other tree.

 

[bornagain62511]

thanks guys!

 

[bornagain62511]

I have a question, I was reading in another thread about using Glyphosate for hack and squirt and it said to make sure you apply the Gly immediately after cutting into the tree trunk before the sap starts to ooze. Is that necessary when using Garlon 3A, or if I have some trees that I cut into a week or two ago but did not apply the herbicide yet, can I still apply the Garlon 3A now, or will it not be as effective? thanks

 

[MickT]

You have to treat immediately doing hack and squirt.


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