Dogwood on clay

[BJE80]

So how wet of conditions can dogwood take? Is there a type of dogwood that can take wetter soils over others? I don't think my soils need an introduction. I really want to plant dogwood and likely going to try it either way because I love how it looks and benefits. But any tips and comments?

 

[BJE80]

I would think red-osier would work for you.

Search for the dogwood and anaerobic tolerance.

I love the look of red osier.

 

[dipper]

That must be in the mn haters neighborhood.

 

[BJE80]

It's very conspicuous in fall/winter. Good browse too.

The goal of this planting would be 100% for natural browse. And I guess some cover too. But mostly to feed deer.

 

[BJE80]

They browsed mine as soon as they outgrew the cage.

What are you planning to plant? Cuttings? bareroot? plugs?

Cuttings is the cheapest right? I have 1.5 acres to plant. I'm planning on planting the top of the humps with dog wood and the lower parts of the humps with button bush and a little bit of willow. I won't be fencing them with that kind of acreage. I don't have high deer pops. Going to have to hope they keep up with browse. One good thing they should have plenty of other browse that first couple of years with the tree tops all on the ground and shoots coming up from the logging.


Edit: I don't know how I am planting these. That was going to be my next question.

 

[willy]

Grey dogwood is all over my heavy clay ground and gets browsed when it is younger but when it outgrows the deer's reach they are done with it. I have red osier dw and it grows fine in my clay as well but the deer have kept it browsed so much that it hasn't made it past 5' tall. I am going to plant more red osier but will put it all in tree tubes for the first couple of years. The red osier I have now was kept inside a 6' fence for its first 3 years and then taken away. It has stayed at the 5' height since then simpley because the deer won't let it get any bigger. This is only 30 yards from my house.

Previously I had planted a hundred red osier with no protection and they were dead within 2 years because of browse pressure.

 

[BJE80]

Grey dogwood is all over my heavy clay ground and gets browsed when it is younger but when it outgrows the deer's reach they are done with it. I have red osier dw and it grows fine in my clay as well but the deer have kept it browsed so much that it hasn't made it past 5' tall. I am going to plant more red osier but will put it all in tree tubes for the first couple of years. The red osier I have now was kept inside a 6' fence for its first 3 years and then taken away. It has stayed at the 5' height since then simpley because the deer won't let it get any bigger. This is only 30 yards from my house.

Previously I had planted a hundred red osier with no protection and they were dead within 2 years because of browse pressure.

I'm hoping in my situation they will not get overbrowsed. First off because of all the other browse that will be around from the logging. Second, I'm hoping to plant enough of them that they won't get hit hard enough individually. I'm not sure what your deer numbers are but ours are moderate.

 

[BJE80]

Not sure what the cheapest is these days. It's been a few years since I've purchased either.

Cuttings/Plugs would be easiest to plant.

I'll have to look into it.


what are the pros/cons of cuttings vs plugs?

 

[BJE80]

I don't want anything that needs TLC. I want to

 

[BJE80]

Why would I even consider bareroot over plugs? I'm trying to decide why I would do that at all. Harder to put in and cost more right?

 

[wiscwhip]

The cost can be cheaper or about the same for bareroot stock than plugs, a lot depends on supply and demand and if plugs of a certain plant are even available. Bareroot stock can be had for just about everything, not so much for plugs.

EDIT: Pretty much what badger said^^^

 

[BJE80]

Does anyone have some suggestions on central/northern Wisconsin places to call around and check with? Do most nursery's have these?

 

[BJE80]

Cost could be pretty close, depending on quantity and where you get them from.

I've planted bare root w/ just a dibble bar. Not much worse than planting plugs. If they have huge roots it would be a pain.

I like bare root for survivability but in sand country drying out is always a factor that I'm worried about.

If you can find plugs, they'd probably be the most cost effective/easiest.

So its a supply issue. Gotcha. Thanks that makes sense now.

 

[BJE80]

Thisis

The two places I know of for plugs are Itasca Greenhouse and North Central Reforestation. Both are in minnesota and both appear to be out of red-osier. A call might prove different.

Laura's Lane might have some bare root, John usually has cuttings.

Edit: My first bareroot red-osiers were from Wildlife Nurseries, Inc. They were not cheap. I only did 10. Those were my first wildlife plantings ever. A few are even alive today.

This is for next spring so maybe they would have some then. I'm getting my ducks in a row now.



Any suggestions on spacing?

 

[BJE80]

ROD grew in areas with heavy clay under marsh peat on my old place...standing water was frequently found there. In wet years, the area would have puddles all over.

That's a real good sign.

 

[SD51555]

For the quantity that you're going to do, I would get plugs even if they cost more. It'll take a few days to plant that many. I'd even get an extra bar or two and get a crew together. The key to making that work is going to be quantity. In any situation I would use plugs. No root shock, uniform holes for planting, they conserve their own moisture while you wait for the first rain, no need to dip them in anything etc.

This fall will mark the end of year 2 of our 300 ROD planting. After all of it browns down, I'm going to go do a stem count and see how they fared. Mine were all browsed back in the first year, but they didn't die. They actually bushed out better, and that was what I wanted. Pending the results of that, I may get 300 more this spring and plant largely the same area and a few new ones.

If you don't hate bare root yet, you will after that project. I've used Itasca twice and both times got great stock from them. I would order them now for spring because they go fast, and for good reason. Hopefully the biggest problem you'll have is figuring out how to mow them every two to three years down the road.

 

[chummer]

For the quantity that you're going to do, I would get plugs even if they cost more. It'll take a few days to plant that many. I'd even get an extra bar or two and get a crew together. The key to making that work is going to be quantity. In any situation I would use plugs. No root shock, uniform holes for planting, they conserve their own moisture while you wait for the first rain, no need to dip them in anything etc.

This fall will mark the end of year 2 of our 300 ROD planting. After all of it browns down, I'm going to go do a stem count and see how they fared. Mine were all browsed back in the first year, but they didn't die. They actually bushed out better, and that was what I wanted. Pending the results of that, I may get 300 more this spring and plant largely the same area and a few new ones.

If you don't hate bare root yet, you will after that project. I've used Itasca twice and both times got great stock from them. I would order them now for spring because they go fast, and for good reason. Hopefully the biggest problem you'll have is figuring out how to mow them every two to three years down the road.

How thick are the stems? Could you use gas powered hedge trimmers? Mine go through .5" stuff pretty easy.

 

[BJE80]

For the quantity that you're going to do, I would get plugs even if they cost more. It'll take a few days to plant that many. I'd even get an extra bar or two and get a crew together. The key to making that work is going to be quantity. In any situation I would use plugs. No root shock, uniform holes for planting, they conserve their own moisture while you wait for the first rain, no need to dip them in anything etc.

This fall will mark the end of year 2 of our 300 ROD planting. After all of it browns down, I'm going to go do a stem count and see how they fared. Mine were all browsed back in the first year, but they didn't die. They actually bushed out better, and that was what I wanted. Pending the results of that, I may get 300 more this spring and plant largely the same area and a few new ones.

If you don't hate bare root yet, you will after that project. I've used Itasca twice and both times got great stock from them. I would order them now for spring because they go fast, and for good reason. Hopefully the biggest problem you'll have is figuring out how to mow them every two to three years down the road.

Great info. I'm going to read over a few times over and over later. You trim the tops so they don't get too tall right ?

 

[willy]

BJE80, We have a high deer density.

 

[SD51555]

If they don't get browsed too hard, I've seen mine begin to bush below the browse point. If you're in a situation where you've got enough dogwood that they get past the deer, I'd imagine you could take them down with any number of tools. It's not particularly hard wood, and won't be overly thick. I'd give my 3rd nipple to have to mow dogwood on my property. That's a clear signal you've got enough to provide cover and browse all winter.

This was a single stem planted in 2014, had about a foot browsed off the same year. It not only survived, but pushed out a bunch of new branches. The red circle is where the original single stem was nipped off.