Funny you show rolling that clover down to control it. A few years back I had a very small clover plot and expanded it a bit. When the excavator came to stump the new area, he had to drive over a part of my current area. I was concerned that it would kill the area where the tracks drove over it but that was the greenest, most lush area of the entire plot. It killed the weeds that had started but the clover came back with a vengeance.
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dipper
Guest
I attended the farm technology days today, and had a great conversations with many of the worlds experts on soil, cover cropping, etc. I was like a kid in a candy store. A North Dakota state professor had a cover crop demo.
She had all the cover crops growing in her plot, if I wasn't mistaken it could have been a deer food plot presentation. They were planted June 11th, and they had to be irrigated due to the drought we were in. She loved the idea of planting rye early spring, she just never heard of anyone doing it.
She had had some experimental plots were sweet corn and snap beans were planted into suppressed alfalfa. The alfalfa was planted fall of 2013. From another nrcs demo the alfalfa was still young.(they cut out 8' of soil and you could walk down in it to see the soil profiles). The alfalfa roots were only down a foot, where alfalfa roots will reach 6'. In other words it wasn't even its strongest yet.
Anyway, she sprayed the alfalfa with 2 quarts glyphosate to suppress it and drilled beans and sweet corn. The alfalfa didn't die and the beans and corn looked great. These sorts of things are just the beginning. Us food plotters are in the best position to experiment with things the smartest ag researchers are just starting to play with.
So, the topics I've been talking about have potential to hit main stream agriculture. They could be a real effective trick for us food plotters.
Who out there wouldn't like to have the benefits of a nice lush clover or alfalfa plot in the summer, and some brassicas, rye, oats and in the fall? All for a couple quarts of glyphosate an acre. Plus the alfalfa and clover come back on their own the next year...for free!!!!
You could realistically run the lc food plot mix without ever disturbing the soil. Saving boat loads of time, money, and resources. I'm going to start suppressing my perennial red clover with glyphosate right after I flatten them.
She had all the cover crops growing in her plot, if I wasn't mistaken it could have been a deer food plot presentation. They were planted June 11th, and they had to be irrigated due to the drought we were in. She loved the idea of planting rye early spring, she just never heard of anyone doing it.
She had had some experimental plots were sweet corn and snap beans were planted into suppressed alfalfa. The alfalfa was planted fall of 2013. From another nrcs demo the alfalfa was still young.(they cut out 8' of soil and you could walk down in it to see the soil profiles). The alfalfa roots were only down a foot, where alfalfa roots will reach 6'. In other words it wasn't even its strongest yet.
Anyway, she sprayed the alfalfa with 2 quarts glyphosate to suppress it and drilled beans and sweet corn. The alfalfa didn't die and the beans and corn looked great. These sorts of things are just the beginning. Us food plotters are in the best position to experiment with things the smartest ag researchers are just starting to play with.
So, the topics I've been talking about have potential to hit main stream agriculture. They could be a real effective trick for us food plotters.
Who out there wouldn't like to have the benefits of a nice lush clover or alfalfa plot in the summer, and some brassicas, rye, oats and in the fall? All for a couple quarts of glyphosate an acre. Plus the alfalfa and clover come back on their own the next year...for free!!!!
You could realistically run the lc food plot mix without ever disturbing the soil. Saving boat loads of time, money, and resources. I'm going to start suppressing my perennial red clover with glyphosate right after I flatten them.
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dipper
Guest
Red clover needs to be suppressed. This red clover was seeded at 2 pounds/ acre in 2012, and was left to go to seed. I ran it over with a culti packer which flattened it, but it was still too thick to do anything with. There's almost 2"s of organic matter.
I didn't have a grass issue in this clover so I ran it over twice with a disc. I didn't force the disc in, I let the disc run high. This was planted mid July and we didn't get any considerable rain until this week. That was a 3" dump. If I had bare soil I would of had deep washouts, and there would have been nothing protecting the soil during the drought. Things rebound quickly with moisture.
I've got some broad leafs in here because I didn't spray, but their not hurting anybody. This is the second year in a row organic material protecting the soil saved my butt. It will recycle back into the soil and be organic matter by next year.
I didn't have a grass issue in this clover so I ran it over twice with a disc. I didn't force the disc in, I let the disc run high. This was planted mid July and we didn't get any considerable rain until this week. That was a 3" dump. If I had bare soil I would of had deep washouts, and there would have been nothing protecting the soil during the drought. Things rebound quickly with moisture.
I've got some broad leafs in here because I didn't spray, but their not hurting anybody. This is the second year in a row organic material protecting the soil saved my butt. It will recycle back into the soil and be organic matter by next year.
shawnv
5 year old buck +
I have done it but it takes over seeding and a couple good rains the first week for it to work.
shawnv
5 year old buck +
Dipper - Great thread. The only issue I have with this is the talk about soil building and still spraying. Have you considered trying some plots without spraying? Aside from environmental concerns I would love to see an independent study to show the soil nutrient levels from tilling - no spraying vs. no-till and spraying.
shawnv
5 year old buck +
Ha! I might be part Amish but as an organic farmer I'm working to take the same approach with my food plots. My weed count is continually getting lower and can be done with the right planting strategy. I live right where my plots are so I can invest the time it takes to plot without spraying because you will have more time invested into it no doubt. I'll post some pics down the road.
B
bigbuckingdeer
Guest
The dipper way. A few random pics.
Roundup Ready Alfalfa that had winter rye last fall broadcasted, went in mowed the Rye off middle of July, mowed 2 more times then spread the Nitro Radish. No fert or soil test.
My High Tech Seeder, I can get the seeder up high and over the weeds when using the "Dipper Way" Free seed also, so I put on 150lbs of beans to the acre.
Seeding into a virgin field. Still have a few things to learn with this method but I get better every year.
Beans were spread then mowed.
I had to end up cheating, and work the plot. I think when I mowed the tall weeds down and they created a mulch affect and the beans just laid there. When I went back in to till the plot up at the end of July I was seeing beans that only swelled
and didn't germinate. They got about 6-10 inches of rain between June 1 and July 28, so I know moisture wasn't an issue. Plot only got sprayed with Roundup twice so it wasn't from chemical damage. Anyway live and learn. So I didn't like a sparse stand of beans, and fixed it.
This plot didn't get a soil test or any fert put on.
This is "Brandon's Blend" Beans, Rye, Oats, Wheat, Peas, and a touch of Nitro Radishes.
Roundup Ready Alfalfa that had winter rye last fall broadcasted, went in mowed the Rye off middle of July, mowed 2 more times then spread the Nitro Radish. No fert or soil test.
My High Tech Seeder, I can get the seeder up high and over the weeds when using the "Dipper Way" Free seed also, so I put on 150lbs of beans to the acre.
Seeding into a virgin field. Still have a few things to learn with this method but I get better every year.
Beans were spread then mowed.
I had to end up cheating, and work the plot. I think when I mowed the tall weeds down and they created a mulch affect and the beans just laid there. When I went back in to till the plot up at the end of July I was seeing beans that only swelled
and didn't germinate. They got about 6-10 inches of rain between June 1 and July 28, so I know moisture wasn't an issue. Plot only got sprayed with Roundup twice so it wasn't from chemical damage. Anyway live and learn. So I didn't like a sparse stand of beans, and fixed it.
This plot didn't get a soil test or any fert put on.
This is "Brandon's Blend" Beans, Rye, Oats, Wheat, Peas, and a touch of Nitro Radishes.
D
dipper
Guest
There is nothing wrong with a little tillage to disturb the surface. Deep tillage is where you really start disturbing things.
Those are some pretty impressive radishes in that alfalfa. You don't need to buy "round up" ready seed. Even young nonRR alfalfa can take a dose of glyphosate.
What kind of soil is that alfalfa in? Btw-I've seen some pretty impressive beans no tilled into suppressed alfalfa.
Those are some pretty impressive radishes in that alfalfa. You don't need to buy "round up" ready seed. Even young nonRR alfalfa can take a dose of glyphosate.
What kind of soil is that alfalfa in? Btw-I've seen some pretty impressive beans no tilled into suppressed alfalfa.
B
bigbuckingdeer
Guest
I would have to look at the soil type, it's in a creek bottom in Central indiana, good enough soil to raise 175 bushel corn the year of the drought!!
This is my best plot dirt, CEC of 27. Tough for weed control also.
Same plot as the other pic but on the south end.
After 5 years of intense Management my buck quality is getting better. Cover is king is my part of the world, so I concentrate on growing spruce trees and switchgrass.
Best friend shot "Crabby" on my farm last year, he went 166. I am proud cause my county is about #7 from the bottom for total deer killed in the state. Notice the bigger buck in the cam picture has the same CRAB claws as Eric's.
Sorry for high jacking the thread, but for some of you that don't have the deer structure, give them what they don't have and try to increase your herd capacity.
scott44
5 year old buck +
Nice looking plots and nice looking bucks you have there! I like the way you have your seed on the bucket of the tractor, what kind of seeder is that? I have been getting away from tillage also but I guess I have to prove to myself I can do before going all in.
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bigbuckingdeer
Guest
Thanks Scott.. My seeder on the loader works good, I was tired of driving the quad or ranger around in tall weeds trying to seed, plus the weeds would wrap around the spinner. I am not sure what kind it is, I just modified it with a 4 inch channel and reese style square tube. Scott no-till can be done, start off with tiny seed like turnips then throw, mow, spray and pray for a rain. It works but not all the time, I find using that method into grass works better than tall heavy stems like giant ragweed and lambsquarter. This year I would of thought my throw and mow with the beans would of turned out awesome but nope it sucked. I can spill a bag of beans in my truck bed and they sprout. GRRRRR makes me mad.
This pic might help to see how I have the seeder mounted.
My corn and bean plots close to home get put in with the 24 row planter!! Can be tricky getting into a 1/8 acre kill plot but I make it work..
Here I am no tilling beans into mowed off switch grass.
I am lucky to have the machinery to make plotting easier. No tilling corn into mowed native grass. If I did this again I would burn it first then no till.
This planter unit had a hard time pushing the switch grass thatch out of the way to get a good seed bed. What I ended up doing was making 3-4 passes with the seed drive off and the planter down to clear a path
then the last pass I turned the seed drive on and planted in a trash free zone. The trash wheels you see are FLOATING so they follow the contour of the ground as you plant.
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dipper
Guest
Those are some giAnts bucking thanks for sharing. Your planting methods are on two totally different sides of the scale. Looks like it is working.
Here's sorghum Sudan grass planted to obstruct view. It was no tilled this spring and I had to maneuver around some apples. The pass on the right is 7', on the left it's 3'. That drastic difference is the power of an organic soil amendment. Both got synthetic fertilizer. Makes a person really think of what synthetic fertilizer really gets you. Without the organic amendment last years ssg only got 3'. Some of the best $$ you can pay for soil amendments-organic is worth it!
The tall stuff is getting the job done, no doubt. Can hardly see my 7' wood pile back there. Ssg will conceal your food plots when the soil is functioning properly
Here's sorghum Sudan grass planted to obstruct view. It was no tilled this spring and I had to maneuver around some apples. The pass on the right is 7', on the left it's 3'. That drastic difference is the power of an organic soil amendment. Both got synthetic fertilizer. Makes a person really think of what synthetic fertilizer really gets you. Without the organic amendment last years ssg only got 3'. Some of the best $$ you can pay for soil amendments-organic is worth it!
The tall stuff is getting the job done, no doubt. Can hardly see my 7' wood pile back there. Ssg will conceal your food plots when the soil is functioning properly
B
bigbuckingdeer
Guest
Thanks J-bird. Crabby is the farm record. Anytime, we might have low deer numbers in my county but I have enjoyed the challenge of "whitetail landscaping" and increasing the numbers.
B
bigbuckingdeer
Guest
Thanks Dipper. When I am close to home the big planter comes out and I no till. My lease is an hour drive so that farm needed worked and leveled up since it was the first time for plots.Those are some giAnts bucking thanks for sharing. Your planting methods are on two totally different sides of the scale. Looks like it is working.
Here's sorghum Sudan grass planted to obstruct view. It was no tilled this spring and I had to maneuver around some apples. The pass on the right is 7', on the left it's 3'. That drastic difference is the power of an organic soil amendment. Both got synthetic fertilizer. Makes a person really think of what synthetic fertilizer really gets you. Without the organic amendment last years ssg only got 3'. Some of the best $$ you can pay for soil amendments-organic is worth it!
The tall stuff is getting the job done, no doubt. Can hardly see my 7' wood pile back there. Ssg will conceal your food plots when the soil is functioning properly
Great looking pics, does that soil have lots of sand?
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dipper
Guest
Sandy soil low in organic matter.
Spring planted oats and alfalfa. The oats was just brush hogged, and they look great. Nothing better than a free, no effort deer salad.
A couple plants I peeled off the surface.
You can grow some great looking plots without synthetic fertilizer in unhealthy soil.
Spring planted oats and alfalfa. The oats was just brush hogged, and they look great. Nothing better than a free, no effort deer salad.
A couple plants I peeled off the surface.
You can grow some great looking plots without synthetic fertilizer in unhealthy soil.
D
dipper
Guest
I left 6 acres of oats, and 50 turkeys moved in and wiped the whole thing out. I wanted to see if the deer were going to eat the mature oat heads, but so much for that idea.
This newly seeded oats will winter kill. Next spring I'm going to spray the alfalfa with glyphosate, and no till beans and peas into the suppressed plant. The glyphosate isn't going to kill the alfalfa. By fall I'll have peas, beans and alfalfa all growing together. Best of both worlds. We don't have to play by any rules!
This newly seeded oats will winter kill. Next spring I'm going to spray the alfalfa with glyphosate, and no till beans and peas into the suppressed plant. The glyphosate isn't going to kill the alfalfa. By fall I'll have peas, beans and alfalfa all growing together. Best of both worlds. We don't have to play by any rules!
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dipper
Guest
Another fall another lush plot for little cost. In the center of the pic is an extremely dense pocket of rye. I didn't plant rye here for two years! This rye seed sat dormant for one full year and it didn't getminate till I disced it this July. There is also free oat seed and clover seed in here. The oat seed is the result of no tilling oats this spring. Clover???? It's hadn't been planted here for at least 20 years, likely never!
All I added was about a pound an acre ptt. Synthetic fertilizer is soooooo over rated.
Here is a extended view. If u look closely u can see where the rye chokes everything out. That's the upper left corner that is shorter and lighter green.
Here is a plot-Red clover planted in summer of 2012, I did nothing with it till this summer where it got another light discing. Wheat, oats and peas-conventional drill at 120 pounds/acre. another no fail plot!
These plots never got a lick of herbicide. There was broadleafs before I disced, but they seemed to disappear.....
All I added was about a pound an acre ptt. Synthetic fertilizer is soooooo over rated.
Here is a extended view. If u look closely u can see where the rye chokes everything out. That's the upper left corner that is shorter and lighter green.
Here is a plot-Red clover planted in summer of 2012, I did nothing with it till this summer where it got another light discing. Wheat, oats and peas-conventional drill at 120 pounds/acre. another no fail plot!
These plots never got a lick of herbicide. There was broadleafs before I disced, but they seemed to disappear.....
