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Buck Fawn
The dreaded Chamberbitter plant
?? - Difference Between Patriot and Durana Clovers
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Patriot is faster to establish and less persistent and less drought resistant. Durana is generally more persistent and drought resistant but slower to establish.
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
I thought Patriot was better suited for northern climates. Was going to use up what I have and make a new mixed bag of clovers with patriot. Home is zone 5A heavy on the clay, Camp is zone 3A sandy but filled with organic tree residue.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Durana and Patriot mix well. I have found that if I plant Durana with a WR nurse crop in the fall and then mow the WR back to about 6" each time it gets much more than a foot the first spring, it releases the Durana as needed giving it time to establish before summer weeds take hold. If I don't have time to keep it mowed the first spring to release it, I will lighten up on the nurse crop a bit and mix Patriot 50/50 with Durana. The Patriot establishes quickly enough and enough light gets in with the lighter seeding rate for the WR that summer weeds don't take hold. Over time, the Durana overtakes the Patriot.
This is kind of the same strategy (but for more legitimate reasons) that WI uses with their BOB clover mix. A large percentage of clover in the bag is inexpensive Berseem clover. A quite small percentage is the improved variety they tout. Their reasoning is that you can plant it in the spring and the fast growing annual berseem acts as the nurse crop. Perhaps the real reason is to lower their seed cost while raising the price they get by touting the characteristics of their improved varieties. It is a much better practice to plant perennial clover in the fall with a WR nurse crop. Most perennial clovers don't need the the regular 1st spring mowing, but Durana is pretty slow to establish and definitely benefits from it.
Thanks,
Jack
This is kind of the same strategy (but for more legitimate reasons) that WI uses with their BOB clover mix. A large percentage of clover in the bag is inexpensive Berseem clover. A quite small percentage is the improved variety they tout. Their reasoning is that you can plant it in the spring and the fast growing annual berseem acts as the nurse crop. Perhaps the real reason is to lower their seed cost while raising the price they get by touting the characteristics of their improved varieties. It is a much better practice to plant perennial clover in the fall with a WR nurse crop. Most perennial clovers don't need the the regular 1st spring mowing, but Durana is pretty slow to establish and definitely benefits from it.
Thanks,
Jack
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
yoderjack,
That imperialistic BOB blue coated clover....... IS that durana with a smurfberry paint job?
I've had good eperiences using medium red clover as a nurse crop with white perennials. IF You mow a few times a year, the red just about never makes year 3. IF you mow to make it retty, or calm down competitve weeds or grains, you definitely need to frost seed. Easy to do, but just about necesary to maintain a clover plot for numerous years.
That imperialistic BOB blue coated clover....... IS that durana with a smurfberry paint job?
I've had good eperiences using medium red clover as a nurse crop with white perennials. IF You mow a few times a year, the red just about never makes year 3. IF you mow to make it retty, or calm down competitve weeds or grains, you definitely need to frost seed. Easy to do, but just about necesary to maintain a clover plot for numerous years.
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
As far as the BOB goes, I'm operating at scale and don't use BOB seed any more because of the huge cost it would be. All seed needs to have a seed tag that shows what is in the bag, even BOB seed. That is how you would tell what variety it is.
I've had poor success using Medium Red with perennial clover like Durana. Medium Red is a short-lived perennial. My results when mixing it with Durana is that I get patches of Medium red in the Durana. As the Medium Red dies out, it is filled by summer weeds rather than the durana filling it in. I don't mix them any more.
I NEVER frost seed to establish perennial clover. It makes much more sense to fall plant and use a WR nurse crop. Much of the clover will germinate in the fall but not grow much. This gives it a much bigger jump on competition than frost seeding. I do use frost seeding to overseed an existing clover plot if it has bare patches, but never to establish perennial clover.
As for mowing, I only mow to release clover in the spring following planting. It is keeping the WR alive, but allowing light in for the clover to establish. Once established, I become very weed tolerant. My clover plots start out very clean with this practice, but once established, I become very weed tolerant. In a 2 year old plot you would not even know there was clover in it during the summer looking from a distance. Many of those weeds are good deer food and don't bother deer use at all. They shade the clover from the hot summer sun as well. Come fall, when the cool evening and more reliable rain favor the clover, I mow once right before the season. What looked like a weed field becomes almost pure clover as the clover bounces back. I do no other maintenance or herbicides. Each year, the proportion of weeds increases a bit and after 7 to 10 years the field needs rotated. I do no other maintenance.
I've I'm too lazy to rotate when I should, I can get a few more years out of a field by bushogging it flat to suppress the clover or by hitting it with 1 qt/ac gly to top kill it and then drilling GHR and WR into it.
Thanks,
Jack
Bassattackr
5 year old buck +
Clover
PDF files are available at the bottom of Dbltree's post showing the pictures he posted White clover is one of the most dependable, easy to grow food source's we can plant and it's easy to establish. Small odd shaped areas such as corners, remote hard to get to places and the perimeter of...
habitat-talk.com
Post #20.
WhiteoakJoe
Yearling... With promise
I am still mixed with my feelings on Durana but I'm trying to keep an open mind. I have had clover for over 30 years on my plots. A local seed company started a mix of White Dutch, Ladino, Medium Red and Chicory. (Shout out to Wyatt seed in Petersburg Indiana an their Hoosier Trophy Clover Plot blend the sell to the locals) That as been my mix for almost 25 of those years. ( I have played with Imperial Whitetail a little also. its ok but not worth the price! ) I asked Wyatt Seed to get me some Durana and thy gave me a pure stand. I don't think it did as well as others for the first two years, and I really didn't see as much shade tolerance as the White Dutch had around the edge. It may be I need another year to get it better established. (third fall this year) I did go a year without chicory and will not do that again. My Chicory is all that saves any of my clovers in summer heat. It's drought tolerance is what makes the plots work during the heat. And during early bow season (October in Indiana) I watch deer select only Chicory to eat. Once the clovers bounce back they match the Chicory in palatability. But the Durana is not doing anything the other didn't for a lot more money. I hope you guys are right and I just have not seen it yet. I have just frost seeded every other year in the past to keep clover going, but have not done that with Durana maybe that is causing the thin look to the plot and the lack of full shaded ground is stressing the plants? My plots with the old mix still looks better, and have more trail cam photos. But it is an older planting and more established...
Question are you guys calling Whitetail Institute BOB clover? LOL What does that stand for? Big Old Buck on the bag?
Question are you guys calling Whitetail Institute BOB clover? LOL What does that stand for? Big Old Buck on the bag?
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
Good guess. BOB = Buck on Bag
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
In my area, 7a, ladino went dormant most summers for a number of months, especially if we had a dry year. I too, had to mix it with chicory to deal with summer. In dry years, Durana only goes dormant for a couple weeks. It is slow to establish and proper establishment is key, but once established, I ignore summer weeds. They help shade it. In wetter years, my Durana does not go dormant at all. It is aggressive compared to ladino and I found there was little benefit adding chicory as it overtook the chicory in a few years. The bigger benefit for me is persistence. I was getting 5-7 years out of ladino before I needed to rotate. I'm getting 8-10 out of ladino. That alone helps equalize the price. At least you can buy Durana. While WI has some great improved variety clovers, you can't buy them. They only sell them in a mix with cheap annual clover making the cost/lb outrageous for the improved variety seed. Last I bought Durana, I was paying about $5/lb TMD from Harvey at Poudre Valley Coop. That was quite a while ago. Lately I've been experimenting with Alberlasting.
Thanks,
Jack
Nightvision
5 year old buck +
Op,
Durana is the bulldog of clovers. It will be slow to grow this fall but bust loose in the spring of 23.
One thing to remember, when the Durana goes dormant in the summer you will swear it’s dead. For me, in middle Georgia, it may be that way for a month or more but when the fall temps and cool rains show up it explodes.
Durana is the bulldog of clovers. It will be slow to grow this fall but bust loose in the spring of 23.
One thing to remember, when the Durana goes dormant in the summer you will swear it’s dead. For me, in middle Georgia, it may be that way for a month or more but when the fall temps and cool rains show up it explodes.
BrushyPines
5 year old buck +
I second this
Nightvision
5 year old buck +
I’m sure you can order it off of Amazon. Not sure if there are others but if going Durana, I’d suggest getting Pennington seed.
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I've always got the best price from Harvey at Poudre Valley Coop. It has been quite a few years since I bought it, bit it was $5/lb TYD.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Amazon
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