Clover Combos

[Derek Reese 29]

Good morning everyone,
I was wondering what everyone's favorite combinations of clover/other perennials are? I am in North Central PA and am doing some experimentation this year with the following:
On good soil: (pH 6.3-6.8, decent OM, ok nutrients)
(2 kinds of white clover and some alfalfa)-1 acre,
chicory, alfalfa, ladino and balansa clover-1/3 acre,
GRO's 3X mix with chicory and balansa clover-slightly more than 1/3 of an acre
On not so great soil, (pH around 5.8-6.2, mid level OM, lower nutrients)
GRO's 3 way annual (just trying it by itself)
On Bad soil (pH 5.5-6.0, Clay, low OM/nutrients):
Alsike (I know some of you don't like it, but it may be the only thing that will grow) with balansa/aberlasting
GRO's 3 way annual with alsike,-1/3 acre
Crimson + Alsike with a late addition of buckwheat for soil building,-1/2 acre
GRO's Inner Sanctum+alsike-0.2 acre
I plan to spray with foliar seed starter and foliar 9-4-9 at intervals throughout the year, especially if conditions get tough.
Thanks in advance.-Derek

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

With that many plots i would think you will spend a small fortune on seed using GRO's instead of just ordering in larger quantities and mixing your own.

I like Alice white, Oasis chicory, and Freedom MR red clover. I keep the ratio heavy on the chicory to use up the excess N and because the deer by me prefer it more anyway.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

With that many plots i would think you will spend a small fortune on seed using GRO's instead of just ordering in larger quantities and mixing your own.

I like Alice white, Oasis chicory, and Freedom MR red clover. I keep the ratio heavy on the chicory to use up the excess N and because the deer by me prefer it more anyway.

I really have only a few of my own plots and am helping an older gentleman with a few on his land, so it's not really all that cost-prohibitive. I spent a lot more last year when trying to try out varieties from a bunch of different companies.

 

[scott44]

Ladino, med red and Whitetail Institute Alfa rack plus (Alfalfa and chicory)

 

[SwampCat]

I keep it simple - durana and wheat. Plant wheat into the standing durana each fall. Wheat utilizes the nitrogen. I don't fertilize anything.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I keep it simple - durana and wheat. Plant wheat into the standing durana each fall. Wheat utilizes the nitrogen. I don't fertilize anything.

I tried a 1/2 acre of durana last year and it didn't quite do as well as some other kinds. It may pop this year though, as it will be year 2.

 

[mikmaze]

I think you need to do test plots, or at the very least, strips with each as an individual so you can see what it does, so you can see if it is worth adding to a mix. You might have one or two duds that are a flat waste of money that you would never know otherwise.

 

[SwampCat]

I tried a 1/2 acre of durana last year and it didn't quite do as well as some other kinds. It may pop this year though, as it will be year 2.

I do think durana is a little slower to catch on. It is tough when it gets there - through both drought and flood. I plant wheat at 100 lbs per acre into existing duran plots. I set the disk blades to disturb about half the soil with my woods seeder when planting. I also drop about 2 lbs per acre durana seed - just to keep it all refreshed. Most is about to go underwater right now.

 

[Mike]

Rennovation, Jumbo II Ladino and Chickory. Prettiest plot I have ever seen and cant keep the deer out of it. That's up here in the snow. Still waiting to hear anything about Legacy White Clover.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I think you need to do test plots, or at the very least, strips with each as an individual so you can see what it does, so you can see if it is worth adding to a mix. You might have one or two duds that are a flat waste of money that you would never know otherwise.

I have been doing test plots for a while, but usually try to mix an annual and a perennial or something that says it grows quickly with one that doesn't. I think the strips are a great idea though!

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I do think durana is a little slower to catch on. It is tough when it gets there - through both drought and flood. I plant wheat at 100 lbs per acre into existing duran plots. I set the disk blades to disturb about half the soil with my woods seeder when planting. I also drop about 2 lbs per acre durana seed - just to keep it all refreshed. Most is about to go underwater right now.

View attachment 28483

Wow that's a great looking plot! Does it really come back well after being submerged?

 

[SwampCat]

Wow that's a great looking plot! Does it really come back well after being submerged?

If it is only under two or three weeks - it will come out without missing a beat. I have had some under for sixty days - May and June. I thought it killed it - couldnt find anything that looked like clover and it came back the next October.

 

[TreeDaddy]

I keep mine ridiculously simple:crimson and arrow leaf with rye/oats in fall

bill

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I keep mine ridiculously simple:crimson and arrow leaf with rye/oats in fall

bill

I grew crimson mixed with durana last year in a ~0.5 acre plot. The crimson was great (tons of forage and lots of red buds), but I as hoping for the durana to grow slowly and fill in for the crimson when it was done. Also, I didn't notice a ton of deer activity in the crimson, they definitely preferred some nearby white clover it seemed. I have never tried the later season grains. Do you drill or broadcast them (I don't have a drill so I am wondering if broadcasting them would be alright). Thanks!

 

[SwampCat]

I grew crimson mixed with durana last year in a ~0.5 acre plot. The crimson was great (tons of forage and lots of red buds), but I as hoping for the durana to grow slowly and fill in for the crimson when it was done. Also, I didn't notice a ton of deer activity in the crimson, they definitely preferred some nearby white clover it seemed. I have never tried the later season grains. Do you drill or broadcast them (I don't have a drill so I am wondering if broadcasting them would be alright). Thanks!

I am from the south - so take this for what it is worth. Most of my plots are durana and wheat. Where I live, durana planted in the fall does not even make an appearance until late winter. My deer don't use clover a lot in the spring - because everything is green and plenty to eat everywhere. Use of the durana clover definitely picks up in the summer. June, July, and August it gets hammered at my place. In our hot, dry summers, the durana is often barely hanging on late August and Sept. I generally use a Woods Seeder to seed my wheat into my existing durana stands - for me, in early Oct. Obviously, you would seed wheat earlier. I have one plot I do a throw and mow. I will usually clip that plot down about 6" tall in June, and then let it go the rest of the summer. I spread wheat into that plot mid September, and then bush hog pretty low depending on the state of the existing durana. Usually it is eaten almost to the ground so I cut pretty low. I have decent success doing this - not like planting with a seeder that provides some ground disturbance - but not bad. I consider the wheat to be for my fall and winter hunting, and the durana clover for the deer in late spring and summer.

 

[TreeDaddy]

I grew crimson mixed with durana last year in a ~0.5 acre plot. The crimson was great (tons of forage and lots of red buds), but I as hoping for the durana to grow slowly and fill in for the crimson when it was done. Also, I didn't notice a ton of deer activity in the crimson, they definitely preferred some nearby white clover it seemed. I have never tried the later season grains. Do you drill or broadcast them (I don't have a drill so I am wondering if broadcasting them would be alright). Thanks!

I broadcast all my seed using throw and mow techniques that i learned from CrimsonNCamo's throw and mow threads

bill

 

[Derek Reese 29]

Thanks, I will check those out...it looks like an interesting way to go about it and combat weeds

I broadcast all my seed using throw and mow techniques that i learned from CrimsonNCamo's throw and mow threads

bill

 

[Rit]

Good morning everyone,
I was wondering what everyone's favorite combinations of clover/other perennials are? I am in North Central PA and am doing some experimentation this year with the following:
On good soil: (pH 6.3-6.8, decent OM, ok nutrients)
(2 kinds of white clover and some alfalfa)-1 acre,
chicory, alfalfa, ladino and balansa clover-1/3 acre,
GRO's 3X mix with chicory and balansa clover-slightly more than 1/3 of an acre
On not so great soil, (pH around 5.8-6.2, mid level OM, lower nutrients)
GRO's 3 way annual (just trying it by itself)
On Bad soil (pH 5.5-6.0, Clay, low OM/nutrients):
Alsike (I know some of you don't like it, but it may be the only thing that will grow) with balansa/aberlasting
GRO's 3 way annual with alsike,-1/3 acre
Crimson + Alsike with a late addition of buckwheat for soil building,-1/2 acre
GRO's Inner Sanctum+alsike-0.2 acre
I plan to spray with foliar seed starter and foliar 9-4-9 at intervals throughout the year, especially if conditions get tough.
Thanks in advance.-Derek

When are these being planted? In my experience there is no comparison to Spring and Fall planted clover and a 1 year experiment isn’t really worth conducting when it comes to a perennial clover.

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks, I will check those out...it looks like an interesting way to go about it and combat weeds

Add CNCs no-till techniques to weed tolerance and you are on the right long-term track!

Deer preference of a particular clover or cereal grain is way over rated in my opinion. Every crop will peak at a particular time and deer will be on it. I've watched deer ignore ice cream crops to eat some weeds when they peak. Their preference of a particular crop is dwarfed by their risk/reward perception. Pressure is a much bigger factor than the particular crop variety.

I find it best to bend nature as little as possible. That usually yields the biggest benefits at the lowest cost. I typically choose crops based on how they perform in my area. Planting soybeans is of little benefit if deer nip them off before they canopy. My soils are not great, so the cereal grain of choice for me is winter rye. It has great soil improvement benefits. I always plant my perennial clover in the fall with a nurse crop of WR. Mixing clovers is not a bad idea but they need to be complementary. I tried Crimson and Durana and found it was a poor combination. Once the crimson died out, weeds filled in. I've been trying a number of perennial clovers lately but Durana has been my mainstay. I'm not at all worried about attraction. If deer are not eating my clover at a given point in time it means my native habitat improvements are working and they have found something better that requires less exposure than open clover fields. I'm looking for clovers that will perform at a low cost. For example, Durana is slow to establish but is very persistent and drought tolerant. Compared to the Ladino I had used previously, instead of going dormant all summer, it only goes dormant for a month or so in dry years and not at all if we get good rain. It is a bit expensive, but if you amortize the seed cost over the extra life-span, it is not bad.

Best of luck,

Jack

 

[Northbound]

Out of curiosity. When you guys plant oats or rye into your clover, how many days before frost are you looking at?