Chance of freeze damage - pear vs persimmon

Native Hunter

5 year old buck +
I love both pears and persimmons, but pears do get freeze damage often while persimmons seldom do. Both pics below were taken today and illustrate why this is. Pears are already dime sized and persimmons haven’t even leaved out yet.

PS - I have a tremendous pear crop this year despite a few trees getting ftozen out

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Seeing the success of your persimmons has definitely motivated me to get more serious about trying them on our farms.

I think you are likely a higher hardiness zone than our properties, but do you have any persimmons in low-lying areas or are they all predominantly near ridgetops?
 
Seeing the success of your persimmons has definitely motivated me to get more serious about trying them on our farms.

I think you are likely a higher hardiness zone than our properties, but do you have any persimmons in low-lying areas or are they all predominantly near ridgetops?
I have several persimmon trees in my low, frost pocket areas, and so far I can’t recall them completely failing to fruit. However, that is where the pears get hit frequently. The bloom time for apples / crabapples will always be somewhere between pears and persimmons, and the crop failure rate for them reflects that.

My advice to folks getting started would be to plant all of the species mentioned above on ridges but leave out the pears (or go very light on them) in the low areas.

Even on ridges, your crop failure rate for pears will be higher, but they are a great fruit and worth having despite an occasional failure.
 
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I have two different japanese persimmons. They come out much earlier than our native persimmons. My japanese have full leaves and are about to bloom right now and the american are about half leaved out now. The japanese are sure subject to vegetation freezing here, but they seem to come back ok
 
I love both pears and persimmons, but pears do get freeze damage often while persimmons seldom do. Both pics below were taken today and illustrate why this is. Pears are already dime sized and persimmons haven’t even leaved out yet.

PS - I have a tremendous pear crop this year despite a few trees getting ftozen out

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Bingo! My place mirrors what you just described; pears are past blossom, persimmons are just starting to show signs of life. I'm right on the edge of our persimmon range so they aren't a slam dunk for me, but they are worth a shot.
 
Persimmons are just starting to leaf out down here. I have some that won't leaf out until May. Pears are usually leafing out in March here.
 
About half my pears here are in full bloom, my second year persimmons are just getting bud swell. I am really looking forward to fruit on the persimmons some day, I've got a half dozen American and a half dozen different ones from Blue Hill.
 
I wish I would have seen this thread three years ago when I first began planting pears! I have roughly 10 pears (out of 18 total) that I would consider in lower lying areas. Maybe not the lowest around but definitely close by. They are all young and have not fruited yet. I will keep an eye on them going forward.

I have a Marble Hill pear and Rut Rage pear waiting to be planted this spring. Now I'm re-thinking locations.
 
We have several pears that are between 5-10 years old that have never produced fruit. All are in the low-lying areas.

About 1/4 mile away in the same valley there are several dozen wild pears from two varieties at least that produce pears every year. The only difference is that they are maybe 100-200 feet higher in elevation.
 
We have several pears that are between 5-10 years old that have never produced fruit. All are in the low-lying areas.

About 1/4 mile away in the same valley there are several dozen wild pears from two varieties at least that produce pears every year. The only difference is that they are maybe 100-200 feet higher in elevation.

At my farm this year, I have an incredible crop of pears on the high ground, with only a couple of trees up there getting bit badly. However, in the low spot I have 5 different varieties, and I can only find fruit on one of them - and that tree is not very loaded. The other 4 varieties look like close to a 100% kill. I've seen this same scenario play out over and over the past few years. Three of those five low ground pears have never produced a single fruit. Only one of them has ever had a significant crop, and that only happened one year. All of them are big, mature trees.

It's hard to believe that a few feet of elevation can make so much difference, but I now have no doubts.
 
My oldest pears are only 4-5 years old. Two Collette's and a Bartlett. Those trees "should" be fruiting soon, hopefully this year. However, they are next to a beaver pond, obviously pretty low lying. I will watch them this year to see if they bloom and/or fruit. They are still young enough that I could move them to more desirable locations.
 
I wish I would have seen this thread three years ago when I first began planting pears! I have roughly 10 pears (out of 18 total) that I would consider in lower lying areas. Maybe not the lowest around but definitely close by. They are all young and have not fruited yet. I will keep an eye on them going forward.

I have a Marble Hill pear and Rut Rage pear waiting to be planted this spring. Now I'm re-thinking locations.
I planted 2 Rut Rage's last year, fast growers....they both had blossoms this year, and one tree has a couple pears growing already at about 5 foot !. The other tree had blossoms all the way at the top. I'll probably have to get a ladder to see if it has pears as well.
 
Question @Native Hunter. My ridges here in Alabama stay much drier. Any less early survival during establishment of your ridge fruit trees vs valley? I just bought a new property and am planning an orchard on a ridge. Just worry about them early, just not a good way to water them. I plant all my trees in the fall here.
 
Question @Native Hunter. My ridges here in Alabama stay much drier. Any less early survival during establishment of your ridge fruit trees vs valley? I just bought a new property and am planning an orchard on a ridge. Just worry about them early, just not a good way to water them. I plant all my trees in the fall here.
If you aren't getting a decent rain every 10 days or so, I feel that new trees need to be watered their first year during summer. I might even water some in the second year if there was an extended drought that lasted for weeks upon weeks. However, after that I feel that most fruit trees should be okay on their own. When I have to water new trees on my ridges, I fill up big tubs in the back of my truck and then dip it out with buckets. This sounds like a lot of trouble, but if you are getting half way decent rains, you may not need to do it very often - and you might not need to do it at all.

Planting in the fall like you do is a good thing, but I still feel that you need to do what I have described above. Good luck, and I hope this helps.
 
Question @Native Hunter. My ridges here in Alabama stay much drier. Any less early survival during establishment of your ridge fruit trees vs valley? I just bought a new property and am planning an orchard on a ridge. Just worry about them early, just not a good way to water them. I plant all my trees in the fall here.
I'd prep a site for the trees several months before. If you have a backhoe or posthole digger, dig up and amend the deep soil with lime, fertilizer, and organic matter. peat moss, manure, home compost, etc. Let the fertilizer and lime burn in. Then, a few months later your tree can get roots in deep quicker. Works good for me in heavier soils at home.

I worked hard to get everything I wanted in at my home. This way watering often only needs to be done this year and maybe some the next. After that, just watch them grow.

I looked into arrkansas black and why its so popular. It's not a high yeilding plant, but is quite drought tolerant because of this. Another I look hard to select, bloom group 3 and 4 plants. Sundance seems to be a really good bet, bloom group 4, late droping, and great tasting.
 
Question @Native Hunter. My ridges here in Alabama stay much drier. Any less early survival during establishment of your ridge fruit trees vs valley? I just bought a new property and am planning an orchard on a ridge. Just worry about them early, just not a good way to water them. I plant all my trees in the fall here.
My trees are on top the hill above the bottoms. At least half the summers, if I dont water some will die. I dont plant a tree anymore that I cant reach with a hose. I have run water in a 1” black pipe a quarter mile to my trees. Every tree I have ever planted I cant water is dead. Some made it ten years - but they all ended up dying in the end.
 
Question @Native Hunter. My ridges here in Alabama stay much drier. Any less early survival during establishment of your ridge fruit trees vs valley? I just bought a new property and am planning an orchard on a ridge. Just worry about them early, just not a good way to water them. I plant all my trees in the fall here.
All of my trees are planted on pine ridges too. I ended up getting a 100 gallon water bladder from Banks Outdoors to put in the back of my UTV and it works well. It is pretty expensive, but it has definitely helped with our summer droughts. I've had it for 4-5 years and the bladder has held up well. Only complaint I have is the tube is not very durable and only lasted 1 summer. I ended up getting a rubber tube from Lowes that is durable. Havent had a problem with the tube since.

 
All of my trees are planted on pine ridges too. I ended up getting a 100 gallon water bladder from Banks Outdoors to put in the back of my UTV and it works well. It is pretty expensive, but it has definitely helped with our summer droughts. I've had it for 4-5 years and the bladder has held up well. Only complaint I have is the tube is not very durable and only lasted 1 summer. I ended up getting a rubber tube from Lowes that is durable. Havent had a problem with the tube since.

I have that same bladder. Just such a pain to do it. I’ve watered a bunch of trees, just have a hate hate relationship with watering. Haha
 
I have that same bladder. Just such a pain to do it. I’ve watered a bunch of trees, just have a hate hate relationship with watering. Haha
It is a pain, especially in the heat of our summers! I try to water early in the morning, but hell it's still hot here at 6 am in July/August lol
 
All of my trees are planted on pine ridges too. I ended up getting a 100 gallon water bladder from Banks Outdoors to put in the back of my UTV and it works well. It is pretty expensive, but it has definitely helped with our summer droughts. I've had it for 4-5 years and the bladder has held up well. Only complaint I have is the tube is not very durable and only lasted 1 summer. I ended up getting a rubber tube from Lowes that is durable. Havent had a problem with the tube since.

That's probably the smart way to water. My Tree plot is on the land I live on , I'm cheap and just fill up old milk jugs, and carry 25 of them over in a Kawasaki mule. Granted I only planted 5 new trees in the plot this year.....and give them at least 5 gallons each once a week. In the summer when it gets hotter I may water twice a week if there is no rain.
 
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